- I offer my respectful obliescence to dear devootes
I'm confused about this ongoing chaos for ritvic system.
Was this actually ordered by Prabhupada? What should I follow.I would be pleased for the guidance.
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Hare Krsna
What did Prabhupada instructed actually.
Srila Prabhupada has himself declared that the Ritvik system of initiation is NOT bonafide. You may hear this directly in Srila Prabhupada's own transcendental divine vani.
Here is a link to the lecture given by Srila Prabhupada on 08-December-1973 in Los Angeles in a Srimad Bhavatam class
I am pasting a relevant except from the above Bhagavatam pravachan
"So if you want to understand Bhagavad-gītā, then we must understand in the same way as the person who directly heard from him. This is called paramparā system. Suppose I have heard something from my spiritual master, so I speak to you the same thing. So this is paramparā system.
You CANNOT imagine what my spiritual master said. Or even if you read some books, you CANNOT understand UNLESS you understand it from ME. This is called paramparā system.
YOU CANNOT JUMP OVER TO THE SUPERIOR GURU, I mean to say, NEGLECTING THE NEXT ACARYA, IMMEDIATE NEXT ACARYA."
The above are direct words from Srila Prabhupada (Time : 27 sec in link) clearly saying there is no jumping over to Superior Acarya. Ritvik system of initiations neglect to accept genuine disciples of Srila Prabhupada as bonafide representatives and Ritvik system/ followers attempt to jump up the disciplic succession. This cannot be done according to Srila Prabhupada.
Hare Krsna
Hare Krsna
What did Prabhupada instructed actually ?
tad viddhi praṇipātena
paripraśnena sevayā
upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ
jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ
Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized souls can impart knowledge unto you because they have seen the truth.(BG 4.34)
The above is the instruction given by the Supreme Personality of Godhead Sri Krsna in Srimad Bhagavad Gita. The following is the Purport given by Srila Prabhupada on this matter.
The path of spiritual realization is undoubtedly difficult. 1.The Lord therefore advises us to approach a bona fide spiritual master in the line of disciplic succession from the Lord Himself. 2.No one can be a bona fide spiritual master without following this principle of disciplic succession. The Lord is the original spiritual master, and 3. a person in the disciplic succession can convey the message of the Lord as it is to his disciple. 4. No one can be spiritually realized by manufacturing his own process, as is the fashion of the foolish pretenders. The Bhāgavatam (6.3.19) says, dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam: the path of religion is directly enunciated by the Lord. Therefore, mental speculation or dry arguments cannot help lead one to the right path. Nor by independent study of books of knowledge can one progress in spiritual life. 5.One has to approach a bona fide spiritual master to receive the knowledge. Such a spiritual master should be accepted in full surrender, and one should serve the spiritual master like a menial servant, without false prestige. 6.Satisfaction of the self-realized spiritual master is the secret of advancement in spiritual life. Inquiries and submission constitute the proper combination for spiritual understanding. 7.Unless there is submission and service, inquiries from the learned spiritual master will not be effective. One must be able to pass the test of the spiritual master, and when he sees the genuine desire of the disciple, he automatically blesses the disciple with genuine spiritual understanding. In this verse, both blind following and absurd inquiries are condemned. Not only should one hear submissively from the spiritual master, but one must also get a clear understanding from him, in submission and service and inquiries. A bona fide spiritual master is by nature very kind toward the disciple. 8.Therefore when the student is submissive and is always ready to render service, the reciprocation of knowledge and inquiries becomes perfect. (Purport BG 4.34)
The above text is from Bhagavad Gita As it is, only numbers have been added for reference.
what should be followed ?
What any individual needs to follow is entirely upto them. But based on the above instructions of Srila Prabhupada - Acceptance of initiation by a devotee & disciple who has submissively served & inquired from Srila Prabhupada is a bonafide approach. Here is why
1.The Lord therefore advises us to approach a bona fide spiritual master in the line of disciplic succession from the Lord Himself.
Srila Prabhupada is a bonadife spiritual master & great devotee in the dsciplic succession of Brahma Madhwa Gaudiya Guru Shishya Prampara. Srila Prabhupada initiated many devotees. Thus Srila Prabhupada's disciples have approached a bonafide spiritual master.
Srila Prabhupada is a person in disciplic succession and can convey the message of the Lord as it is to his disciple. This SrilaPrabhupad has coveyed the message ofthe Lord to his disciples.
5.One has to approach a bona fide spiritual master to receive the knowledge. Such a spiritual master should be accepted in full surrender, and one should serve the spiritual master like a menial servant, without false prestige.
Here Srila Prabhupada is mentioning the attitude of a disciple - Surrender & service without false presetige. Many of Srila Prabhupada's disciples have completely surrendered their lives in service of Srila Prabhupada. They gave up their family, homes, jobs, friends, relatives, social positions etc just to serve Srila Prabhupada's mission of Krsna consciousness. Thus many of Srila Prabhupada's disciples have met this requirement.
6.Satisfaction of the self-realized spiritual master is the secret of advancement in spiritual life. Inquiries and submission constitute the proper combination for spiritual understanding.
Here Srila Prabhupada is emphasizing on submissive Inquiries to spiritual master. Many of Srila Prabhupada's disciples would approach Srila Prabhupada and ask questions. These questions and answers are well documented and also published
8.Therefore when the student is submissive and is always ready to render service, the reciprocation of knowledge and inquiries becomes perfect.
Srila Prabhupada concludes by emphasizing on - Sumbission ,service , inquiries & knowledge. All these have been performedy disciples of Srila Prabhupada.
The malpractice of Ritvik initiations or Proxy initiations in which one person initiates another person as disciple of Srila Prabhupada cannot be accepted as bonafide due to the following reasons based on the above Purport of Srila Prabhupada
2.No one can be a bona fide spiritual master without following this principle of disciplic succession.
Who in Ritvik Proxy initiations malpractice is the connection to the Guru Parampara system ? To the best of my knowledge they do not consider initiations given by any of Srila Prabhupada's initiated disciples as bonafide. So how are they connected to Guru Parampara or Srila Prabhupada ? They may say they are directly connected to Srila Prabhupada after the departure of Srila Prabhupada. But anybody(even you) can say that. That claim when not substantiated by a bonafide authority like Srila Prabhupada himself or higher, cannot be universally reliable. Any the substantiation needs to be provided by them.
Srila Prabhupada clearly warns against manufacturing his own process. This Ritvik Proxy initiations malpractice is a manufactured process . No guru in any disciplic succession has ever practiced or authorized this. Thus this is a deviation from the bonafide process of approaching, surrendering & inquiring from spiritual master.
They claim that Srila Prabhupada has authorized this ritvik praxy initiations but it is a false claim. Srila Prabhupada is clearly saying that we have to accept instruction of Sri Krsna and approach bonafide spiritual master and WE SHOULD NOT MANUFACTURE OWN PROCESS. But Ritvik Proxy initiators claim that Srila Prabhupada has manufactured his own process . This is a blatant accusation on Srila Prabhupada that Srila Prahupada has deviated from Krsna's instructions and from Srila Prahupada's own instructions in this shloka of BG.
6.Satisfaction of the self-realized spiritual master is the secret of advancement in spiritual life. Inquiries and submission constitute the proper combination for spiritual understanding.
Here Srila prabhupada mentions two elements - Inquiries & submission. In the Ritvik Proxy initiations malpractice the initiates are considered disciples of Srila Prabhupada - How can disciples Enquire from Srila Prabhupada ? How can they surrender to Srila Prabhupada ?
Srila Prabhupada's discipels were able to surrender and enquire from Srila Prabhupada when Srila Prabhupada was personally present. How can the new initiates do this ?
7.Unless there is submission and service, inquiries from the learned spiritual master will not be effective. One must be able to pass the test of the spiritual master, and when he sees the genuine desire of the disciple, he automatically blesses the disciple with genuine spiritual understanding.
Here Srila Prabhupada clearly says disciples must pass the test of Spiritual master. In Ritvik Proxy initiations malpractice who conducts this test ?
There are serious questions that are raised on the Ritvik Proxy initiations malpractice. I have no problem if someone wants to accept such an initiation. If someone is coming to Krsna consciousness and praticing devotional service, it is extremely welcome and I celebrate it. My only request is DO NOT condemn a bonafide process of diksha established by highly pure & compassionate acarays in guru parampara just for personal profit.
Here are some other links about the topic -
https://iskcondesiretree.com/forum/topics/doubt-regarding-guru
https://iskcondesiretree.com/forum/topics/what-is-good-in-both-iskc...
Hare Krsna