What is good in both ISKCON and Ritwik?
Which one should I choose because I am new?
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What is good in both ISKCON and Ritwik?
Which one should I choose because I am new?
You need to be a member of ISKCON Desire Tree | IDT to add comments!
Replies
What is a Ritvik?
I don't understand anything about it.
The ritviks think Srila Prabhupada threw away the whole idea of disciplic succesion and has to remain the only diksa guru for us. They say anyone initiated is actually a Prabhudada disciple. A totally bogus concept. They system was not changed for Caitanya - and he is god. The ritvik concept was started by a fallen (and arrested) guru.
But why did they do so?
If they were gurus, how can they go against Prabhupada's will?
Hare Krsna
It doesn't matter why. Everyone thinks they are right. Only time will tell. Krsna has given us scriptures and guidance of devotees and parampara. We try our best to follow them
Hare Krsna
Hare Krsna
What is good in both ISKCON and Ritwik?
They both spread the most important process of Chanting of the Hare Krsna mahamantra - Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.
This chanting of the holy names of Krsna is the prime benediction given by Lord Chaitanya and Panchattavta to all of us fallen conditoned souls to revive our lost relationship with Krsna.
Hare Krsna
Hare Krsna
There are many flaws in Ritvik system. One of the great flaws is that guru has no choice to NOT initiate the disciple.
Diksha process is not ordinary activity of getting new beads and new name. It involves 3 principle aspects - Jiva tattva, Guru tattva and Krsna tattva. When these three come together, that is when initiation happens.
1. Jiva surrenders to Krsna,
2. Guru on behalf of Krsna accepts jiva as disciple
3. Guru instructs disciple to follow path of Krsna conscioiusness
All three of the above are an integral part of initiation process. We can see this in lives of so many acaryas - Lord Chaitanya followed this Himself for initiation when he got initiation, Lord Chaitanya followed this when He gave initiation to Rupa & Sanatana. In ritvik system there is not option for guru to not accept someone as disciple. This cannot be ignored.
When Srila Bhaktisiddhanata Saraswati Thakur first approached Gaura Kishore das babaji for initiation , Gaura Kishore Das babaji plainly rejected. Gaura Kishore Das babaji did this multiple times Same was with Narottam Das Thakur. Guru always has an option not to initiate a person if he chooses so. It is up to the guru to decide whether to initiate or not. That decision of guru is very critical.
In ritvik initiation where is the option for initiating guru to reject someone as unfit for initiation ?
Where is the siddhanta which says someone else can initiate on behalf of a departed acarya ? Is there any other example within any 4 bonafide sampradaya that such a system of initiation is allowed ? What is the basis for such a system ? When guru initiates, he takes responsibility of disciple not just for one lifetime, in Ritvik who is taking that responsibility and on what basis ? Guru who initates, guru gets bad karma of initiated disciples, who gets that bad karma in ritvik on what basis ?
There are too many flaws with it, not minor flaws but foundational flaws.
Taking initiation is a very personal decision. I personally have no problem if someone wants to take such initiation. But principally speaking it cannot be considered bonafide without first establishing (on basis of Scriptures) such a deviant process The onus of establishing such a process as bonafide rests with the people who are following/ propagating it. One flaw is enough to break such a system, there are plenty to count here.
Hare Krsna
Hare Krsna
Adding a reference to support the above
In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, by Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī, Lord Caitanya states that it is a fortunate person who comes in contact with a bona fide spiritual master by the grace of Kṛṣṇa. One who is serious about spiritual life is given by Kṛṣṇa the intelligence to come in contact with a bona fide spiritual master, and then by the grace of the spiritual master one becomes advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In this way the whole jurisdiction of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is directly under the spiritual energy – Kṛṣṇa and the spiritual master. This has nothing to do with the material world.
The above is from Introduction section of book Nectar of Devotion authored by HDG Srila Prabhupada
As written by Srila Prabhupada the act of coming in contact with a bonafide spiritual master is by
1. mercy of Krsna and
2. depending on seriousness of seeker
Then by grace of spiritual master the disciple advances in Krsna consciousness.
Most important -> In this way the whole jurisdiction of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is directly under the spiritual energy – Kṛṣṇa and the spiritual master.
This has nothing to do with the material world.
The act of questioning why some disciples of Srila Prabhupada are initiating disciples, filing court cases on them, accusing them of deviation, blaspheming devotees are all extremely offensive activities and are very detrimental to a person's Krsna consciousness. Such acts are not characteristic of people under spiritual potency of Krsna but characteristic of people who are severely entangled in deluding material potency of Sri Krsna. Such asscoiation/influence is also highly detrimental to development of a person's Krsna consciousness and hence are best avoided.
Hare Krsna
If you believe in disciplic succession and parampara go with anything other than ritvik. ISKCON, Gaudiya Math… anything in the Gaudiya Sampradaya is better than ritvik. Srila Prabhupada’s books are wonderful, and he is the pre-eminent siksa guru for ISKCON, but our chance to have him as our personal guru is gone. The ritviks are bogus. Guru jumping is not allowed.
https://gaudiyahistory.iskcondesiretree.com/disciplic-sucession/
I talk to them, they say that Prabhupada has said in a letter on 9th July 1977 that I am the initiation guru. So I don't know who I believe is ISKCON or ritvik.
Please advise me what I should do because I am new
Hare Krsna
Prabhupada has said in a letter on 9th July 1977 that I am the initiation guru.
If that is the case, then that letter should be followed completely and not in bits and pieces. Please read that letter. Srila Prabhupada allowed only a few of his own disciples to initiate. So these ritvik initiators are they following that ? Which of the listed disciples of Srila Prabhupada is giving the initiation on behalf of Srila Prabhupada ? If none, then who is giving that initiation on behalf of Srila Prabhupada and on what basis. This letter does not allow anyone other than the listed disciples to give initiation of behalf of Srila Prabhupada
Hare Krsna
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