What is good in both ISKCON and Ritwik?
Which one should I choose because I am new?
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What is good in both ISKCON and Ritwik?
Which one should I choose because I am new?
You need to be a member of ISKCON Desire Tree | IDT to add comments!
Replies
What is a Ritvik?
I don't understand anything about it.
The ritviks think Srila Prabhupada threw away the whole idea of disciplic succesion and has to remain the only diksa guru for us. They say anyone initiated is actually a Prabhudada disciple. A totally bogus concept. They system was not changed for Caitanya - and he is god. The ritvik concept was started by a fallen (and arrested) guru.
But why did they do so?
If they were gurus, how can they go against Prabhupada's will?
Hare Krsna
It doesn't matter why. Everyone thinks they are right. Only time will tell. Krsna has given us scriptures and guidance of devotees and parampara. We try our best to follow them
Hare Krsna
Hare Krsna
What is good in both ISKCON and Ritwik?
They both spread the most important process of Chanting of the Hare Krsna mahamantra - Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.
This chanting of the holy names of Krsna is the prime benediction given by Lord Chaitanya and Panchattavta to all of us fallen conditoned souls to revive our lost relationship with Krsna.
Hare Krsna
Hare Krsna
There are many flaws in Ritvik system. One of the great flaws is that guru has no choice to NOT initiate the disciple.
Diksha process is not ordinary activity of getting new beads and new name. It involves 3 principle aspects - Jiva tattva, Guru tattva and Krsna tattva. When these three come together, that is when initiation happens.
1. Jiva surrenders to Krsna,
2. Guru on behalf of Krsna accepts jiva as disciple
3. Guru instructs disciple to follow path of Krsna conscioiusness
All three of the above are an integral part of initiation process. We can see this in lives of so many acaryas - Lord Chaitanya followed this Himself for initiation when he got initiation, Lord Chaitanya followed this when He gave initiation to Rupa & Sanatana. In ritvik system there is not option for guru to not accept someone as disciple. This cannot be ignored.
When Srila Bhaktisiddhanata Saraswati Thakur first approached Gaura Kishore das babaji for initiation , Gaura Kishore Das babaji plainly rejected. Gaura Kishore Das babaji did this multiple times Same was with Narottam Das Thakur. Guru always has an option not to initiate a person if he chooses so. It is up to the guru to decide whether to initiate or not. That decision of guru is very critical.
In ritvik initiation where is the option for initiating guru to reject someone as unfit for initiation ?
Where is the siddhanta which says someone else can initiate on behalf of a departed acarya ? Is there any other example within any 4 bonafide sampradaya that such a system of initiation is allowed ? What is the basis for such a system ? When guru initiates, he takes responsibility of disciple not just for one lifetime, in Ritvik who is taking that responsibility and on what basis ? Guru who initates, guru gets bad karma of initiated disciples, who gets that bad karma in ritvik on what basis ?
There are too many flaws with it, not minor flaws but foundational flaws.
Taking initiation is a very personal decision. I personally have no problem if someone wants to take such initiation. But principally speaking it cannot be considered bonafide without first establishing (on basis of Scriptures) such a deviant process The onus of establishing such a process as bonafide rests with the people who are following/ propagating it. One flaw is enough to break such a system, there are plenty to count here.
Hare Krsna
If you believe in disciplic succession and parampara go with anything other than ritvik. ISKCON, Gaudiya Math… anything in the Gaudiya Sampradaya is better than ritvik. Srila Prabhupada’s books are wonderful, and he is the pre-eminent siksa guru for ISKCON, but our chance to have him as our personal guru is gone. The ritviks are bogus. Guru jumping is not allowed.
https://gaudiyahistory.iskcondesiretree.com/disciplic-sucession/
I talk to them, they say that Prabhupada has said in a letter on 9th July 1977 that I am the initiation guru. So I don't know who I believe is ISKCON or ritvik.
Please advise me what I should do because I am new
Hare Krsna
Prabhupada has said in a letter on 9th July 1977 that I am the initiation guru.
If that is the case, then that letter should be followed completely and not in bits and pieces. Please read that letter. Srila Prabhupada allowed only a few of his own disciples to initiate. So these ritvik initiators are they following that ? Which of the listed disciples of Srila Prabhupada is giving the initiation on behalf of Srila Prabhupada ? If none, then who is giving that initiation on behalf of Srila Prabhupada and on what basis. This letter does not allow anyone other than the listed disciples to give initiation of behalf of Srila Prabhupada
Hare Krsna
Well i stumbled upon the topic when i was relatively new to KC and would you believe that i heard lectures of a ritwik guru( i didn't knew the concept of ritwik or controversy around it at that time) for five whole months without even knowing that he was not a bonafied ISKCON preacher. Wan't to know the reason. Well that's because they teach you exactly the same principles that are taught in ISKCON so you cannot distinguish them based on preaching until....until you decide to take an initiation from them and both the ritwiks and the guru-parampadayis( ISKCON) have a reasonable number of arguments in their favour. Now Tukaram das prabhuji has already explained below what are the differences when you tend to take an initiation. When i crossed the path where i was doomed to choose between ISKCON and the guru i've been listening for past 5 months....i choosed ISKCON without a second thought....Reason 1 -> Well ISKCON GBC which is the governing body of ISKCON and has the most qualified and seniormost gaudiya vaishnavas acarayas along with consulatation from the recognized and bonafied leaders of other sampradayas through integrated collaboration reached on the conclusion that prabhupada in his letters never intended to establish a ritwik system and that guru-parampara should continue only. Reason 2-> An organization like ISKCON which was established by prabhupada isn't too fragile that it will mess up with the teachings of prabhupada in no time after prabhpada's leaving for transdental abode.
Well i don't hold anything against ritwiks and don't wan't to argue their reasons and also believe that one should respect them for the fact that they abide by prabhupada's teachings aside from the controversy around them...they have just taken a wrong turn and krishna will make sure that their paths meet the right way in the end.
Hare Krishna 🙏
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