Hare krsna
Prabhuji /mataji .. . U ppl say only iskcon is right... All other spiritual paths r nt perfect... Nd also say tht only vaishnavite is considered as devotee... Nt any shivite... Nd mainly... U say it brahma madhwa gaudiya... Bt dont evn hv a pic of madhwacharya inany temples... Nd u see diff even in a other gaudiya mutts..y?? Do u think other mutt ppl r nt as gud devotee as u r.... Thts discrimination, .... Even if tht guru is following gaudiya and Mahaprabhu... Wat u say is, dont read their books... Or listen to thr lectures..... Do u think ppl came to iskcon without reading....then y r u stopping people from reading other sampradaya books... Demigods are nt worshipable... Bt they can be worshiped according to madhwa... How means... If a person worships shiva... It should b worshipped as shiva in whom lord krsna resides... I worship u.. (shiva antargata krishna)... Bt wat is said is... Dont worship anyone excpt krsna... (which is gud fr beginner lvl bt nt fr a person who read a lot)...
Im nt being offensive... I just want to know... Dont want to hurt anyones feelings... Hare krsna
Replies
Hare krsna, Pamho,
I know what you exactly talking about, Before coming to Iskcon I was and I still am Shiva devotee, he only sent me to iskcon but the good thing is i still have GRATITTUDE, for him and still visit his temples and still worship, he drank poision for us and we have no gratittude for him, hes the one who saved all sampraday. Moreover, When I worshipped him this monday, he gave me the realisation that, he should be looked at as a orginial brajavasi, Lord shiva is already in Vrindavan as a gopeshwar, ashewashar, chinteshwar, bhuteshwar, chakaleshwar and bankhandi mahadev, so he shud be worshiped and loved as a brajvasi, he has more krsna prema than anyone else on this earth. that is my perspective now.
Hare Krsna
There seem to be a lot of misconceptions about Iskcon. But it is not anyone's fault. These are just misunderstandings and it is good that these have been brought up for clarification.
Firstly we need not take instructions from anyone and everyone. We have to be very selective. We need to take instructions from those who are mature, not just been practicing for many years, but who have developed deep and accurate understanding of philosophy.
Secondly even if we are taking instructions from mature devotees, we have the right and in fact it may be our duty to as questions as to how they are in-line with scriptures/ shastras. For all practical purposes any teaching that is against the writings of Srila Prabhupada need to be accepted.
Thirdly a lot of aspects have been projected as binary either 0 or 1. That is not the case in most scenarios. There are infinite possibilities between and 0 & 1.
Only iskcon is right
Srila Prabhupada has in his books accepted genuinity of all 4 vaishnava sampradayas in his books on multiple occassions. If at all someone finds that Srila Prabhupada has claimed only Iskcon is right, it has to be seen contextually and not universally. Any claim that only one path is right and all others are wrong universally needs ot be viewed suspiciously.
Only vaishnavite is considered as devotee... Nt any shivite
This is inline with the teachings of Sri Krsna in Bhagavad Gita and acaryas in parampara. Pure devotional service by definition is towards Sri Vishnu. This is because there is only one Supreme Personality of Godhead - Lord Sri Vishnu (including all Vishnu tattva forms like Rama, Vama, Varaha , Krsna). This is not to say that demigods should not be worshipped. No, it means that demigod worship is different from Bhakti.
U say it brahma madhwa gaudiya... Bt dont evn hv a pic of madhwacharya in any temples
This is due to practicality. There is hardly any temple which is functioning under any of the 4 sampradayas which have pictures of all acaryas in their sampradayas. Even in Udupi Sri Krsna temple they may not have pictures of all their acaryas. They certainly have pictures/ deities of Madhvacarya. But there have been many acaryas after madhvacarya. And this is not a derogatory remark. Because this is a practical issue.
Temple is mainly for rendering practical service like worship, darhsan, prasadam etc. Life and teachings of acaryas, philosophy are best communicated through books, audio, video etc. On the other hand Srila Prabhpada in the beginning of Bhagavad Gita As-it-is clearly provides list of all acaras of Brahma Madhva Gaudiya Sampradaya.
In Sri Chaitanya Gaudiya math, Navadwip and Sri Chaitanya Gaudiya Math in Puri, deities of main acaryas of all 4 Sampradayas - Madhvacarya, Ramanujacarya, Nimbarakacarya & Visnu Swami are placed around the main temple hall.
Nd u see diff even in a other gaudiya mutts..y?? Do u think other mutt ppl r nt as gud devotee as u r.... Thts discrimination
Such thinking is worse than discrimination. It is almost an offence. This is directly against the most important principle of humulity which Lord Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu taught.
Wat u say is, dont read their books... Or listen to thr lectures..... Do u think ppl came to iskcon without reading....then y r u stopping people from reading other sampradaya books
There are no restrictions on reading books of acaryas that are in-line with parampara. I do not understand how anyone can even stop people form reading. It is not practical. Will someone come and snatch the book if you read Bhagavad Gita of other sampradaya. When Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu visited SriRangam temple he appreciated the devotee who was imperfectly reciting Bhagavad Gita. But Sri Chaitanya mahaprabhu strictly warned against books of Mayavadi. But within 4 vaishnava Sampradaya , it is not banned or anything. But the person needs to take individual responsibility if they get confused later on.
Demigods are nt worshipable... Bt they can be worshiped according to madhwa...
No this is not correct understanding. Even Lord Sri Krishna asked Arjuna to worship Lord Shiva. Gopis worship Katyayani devi. Nanda Maharaj worshipped Lord Shiva. Srila Prbhupada has never said demigods are not worshippable. Yes, worship of demigods is not mandatory. But if someone wants to perform, that is still alright practically speaking. Lord Sri Krsna would not feel offended or anything. Or the worshipper will not fall down due to demigod worship. Now in Iskcon temples demigods are not worshipped, this is by deliberation. But it doesn't mean householders cannot worship demigods.
I hope the above have helped.
Hare Krsna
Hmm thanks fr auch wonderfull ans...
But still im nt clear...
The words i hv spoken might seem arguing type... But seriously, i jst want to clarify my doubts... If i dotn spk thy will alwys stay in my mind...
Actually i hv many more ques.... Cnt type so much here.... May b in othwr ques forum....
Thnks fr taking ur tym and tryng to ans my ques...
Hare krsna
Hare Krsna
Madhwa charya is mukhya prana... So all devtas come under him... Nd its imp to keep his pic bcz he is the one communicates directly with lord
I understand that. We are in no way trying to minimize the position of any acarya. The prime shiksha within in Brahma Madhva Gaudiya Sampradaya is based on teachings of Madhvacarya. But still Lord Sri Chaitanya Mahaprahu Himself made some distinctions in practice and philosophy. There 2 aspects which differ -
1. Woship of Radha Krsna. This is not seen very pervasively in Madhva tradition.
2. Lord Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu combined various philosophies into Acintya Bheda Abheda tattva. Whereas Madhvacarya propounded Dvaitavada.
These are two primary reasons why Brahma-Madhva- Gaudiya sampraday is considered as a slightly different branch within Brahma Madhva Sampradaya.
Lord Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is believed as Sri Krishna Himself and He is given the primary position of both Acarya and Lord , similar to the prime position which Madhvacarya is given within Madhva sampradaya. What needs to be understood is that there are differences in some practices and philosophy. But the primary teachings are the same. And the differences are in no way intended to minimize position of any acarya.
In delhi iskcon, ppl say not to worship katyayani mata or shiva, Only krsna shld b worshipped..So y such thinking ...?
They probably mean to say that that there is no need to worship anyother demigod separately since by worshipping Sri Krsna all demigods are automatically worshipped and more. This is also the reccomendation of Srimad Bhagavatam
तृप्यन्ति तत्स्कन्धभुजोपशाखा: ।
प्राणोपहाराच्च यथेन्द्रियाणां
तथैव सर्वार्हणमच्युतेज्या ॥ १४ ॥
tṛpyanti tat-skandha-bhujopaśākhāḥ
prāṇopahārāc ca yathendriyāṇāṁ
tathaiva sarvārhaṇam acyutejyā
As pouring water on the root of a tree energizes the trunk, branches, twigs and everything else, and as supplying food to the stomach enlivens the senses and limbs of the body, simply worshiping the Supreme Personality of Godhead through devotional service automatically satisfies the demigods, who are parts of that Supreme Personality. ( SB 4. 31.14)
The emphasize is that worship of demigods is not required. But if someone still wants to do it, it is alright. But demigod worship is very different from Bhakti.
All demigods are pure devotees of lord or atleast much higher level than us... So y shldnt thy be considered as guru...??
Not all demigods are pure devotees. But they are very elevated than most people of kali yuga. Some demigods play the role of guru also. Lord Brahma, Lord Shiva, Sri Lakshmi devi are guru and they have a sampradya each originating from them. Other than that there are demigods whose teachings appear in various scriptures and can be considered as guru. Example - Yamaraja's teachings are there in Bhagavatam and Upanishads. Such demigods play role of shiksha guru.
One of the primary characteristic of guru is that they are very compassionate on fallen people and they dedicate their lives and take great personal pains just for distributing transcendental knowledge to everyone. This is what great acaryas like Sri Narada muni, Madhvacarya, Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, Srila Prabhupada have done.
Demigods on the other hand although very elevated may not have that level of compassion for fallen people in general. They have their respective duties in the universal management. They are certainly respectable. They do provide benefits to their worshippers. But role of Guru is very different than that of demigod.
About confusion btwn sampradaya books... Shldnt knowledge be taken frm everywer... As its all abt lord only... Nd all sampradaya praises lord only
I would refrain from using the word "should" because it indicates that something is mandatory. If someone wants to read books of other vaishnava sampradaya or acarys there is nothing wrong with it. Srila Prabhupada has himself partly transated Mukunda Mala Stotra which is originally written by acarya and king Kulasekhara from Sri Sampradaya. Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu collected Brahma Samhita from a temple in Tamil Nadu. So it is not an unacceptable thing to read other vaishnava literature. If an individual has interest, it should not be discouraged. But the individual should be mature enough not to be confused.
And abt stopping ppl frm reading... I hv seen it.. Thrz a whatsapp grp fr gita... Iskcon grp... Nd my madhwa frnd posted one verse frm some madhwa scriptures... Nd tht admin pinged me saying.. Plz ask hik nt to post other samptadayas... Its only fr iskcon... Is tht the right thing to do...??
I don't think that whatsapp admin was trying to stop your from reading. They only stopped them from posting in that particular group. I am quite sure that whatsapp admin would not have any problem with your friend's reading of vaishnava literature. I have personally purchased and read books on upanishads from Udupi temple(which are not available in Iskcon). I have shared them with my friends on a one to one basis. Nobody has stopped me from reading or purchasing such books.
When it comes to sharing it in whatsapp group and other forums, one needs to be careful because such whatsapp groups may have been created for specific purposes. Most whatsapp groups have rules on what to share, that is just the nature of whatsapp groups. I do not think the intention was to restrict your friend's reading.
And i hv seen same admin discriminating and saying tht other gaudiya mutts are seperated from iskcon... Nd thy go against prabhupad and all...
In terms of administration Gaudiya Mutt is different from Iskcon. But as far is devotional practice is concerned it is the same. There is no restriction in terms of visiting, staying, accepting prasadam etc. Not to say that it is madatory. It is up to individual. If they wish to, they can. I personally visit Gaudiya Mutt in Navadwip and Puri because they are very special for they have presence of Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakur, Bhakti Vinod thakur etc. I know even saffron Brahmacaris of Iskcon who visit, stay, take prasadam, sing along in Kirtans etc.
And also once said tht meera bhai... Is a mayavadi... So dont post her songs...
This would probably be an offence against Meera Bai, unless there is strong evidence of she being mayavadi. But if they don't want her songs to be posted, I would refrain from posting it.
Saying we shldnt listen to songa of mayavadis nd no devotees.... Songs of lord and his name is alwys pure... No matter who sings it.... Thts wt i think...
nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇaś
caitanya-rasa-vigrahaḥ
pūrṇaḥ śuddho nitya-mukto
’bhinnatvān nāma-nāminoḥ
The holy name of Kṛṣṇa is transcendentally blissful. It bestows all spiritual benedictions, for it is Kṛṣṇa Himself, the reservoir of all pleasure. Kṛṣṇa’s name is complete, and it is the form of all transcendental mellows. It is not a material name under any condition, and it is no less powerful than Kṛṣṇa Himself. Since Kṛṣṇa’s name is not contaminated by the material qualities, there is no question of its being involved with māyā. Kṛṣṇa’s name is always liberated and spiritual; it is never conditioned by the laws of material nature. This is because the name of Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa Himself are identical. ( CC Madhya 17.133 , taken from Padma Purana )
This is a very important shloka quoted by Lord Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu Himself. The holy names of Sri Krsna are transcendetally pure. They can never be contaminated by material modes. So in that sense holy names are pure irrespective of who sings it. But having said that, acaryas have warned us not to hear holy names from offenders or non-devotees.
Srila Prabhupada himself mentions this in the purport to the Hare Krishna Mahamantra. - "As far as possible, chanting from the lips of a nondevotee should be avoided, as much as milk touched by the lips of a serpent causes poisonous effect."
You can hear the direct audio of Srila Prabhupada saying this or read it here.
They way we can understand is that while non-devotees cannot contaminate the holy names of Sri Krsna, they can definitely contaminate us with their wrong intentions. It is common in commercial movie songs to use holy names, their intentions are not spread bhakti, but to make money. In 1970s there was a popular song in Hindi movie of devanand which included Hare Krsna Hare Rama names. But they were not shown in a pure way. They just use holy names for their own purposes. As devotees we should not be misled to think that listening to such portrayal of holy names are bhakti.
So Srila prabhupada himself has recommended us to avoid listening to holy names from non-devotees to protect our consciousness. This is a general instruction. We have to apply this on individual basis based on our own research.
Hare Krsna
Thank u so much prabhuji for taking ur tym and answering my ques... Nd it kind of cleared my doubts.... 🙏🙏🙂🙂.. I feel calm and clear now...thank u so much... Hare krsna
Who says only iskcon is right?all bonafide sampradaayas are right..
about the devotee talk i think when the people you are hearing from are referring to uttam adhikari then you are comparing that idea to neophyte devotee.
about reading books of other sampradaayas..that is not encouraged because a small trivial dithering can play havoc with our limited intelligence minds..
rest of your questions don't seem to come from someone "who has read a lot"..(nt being offensive prabhu g..)
Prabhu ji
Do u think tht a persn cn get to understand lord with jst few books??
He has to read all kinds of buks to knw the truth
Even then its nt possible to understand him... Nd asking nt to read other buks is nt good.. And the confusion u r speaking abt... Its thr decision to decide,bt discouring them is nt gud right...
U r saying my ques doesnt seem frm sme1 who has read buks... So plz do clarify things since i dont hv enough knwldge accrding to u...
I hv been in iskcon fr 10 yrs...
Nd i hv seen this discrimination against shiva devotees and othwr gaudiya mutt ppl...
Yes i knw shiva is a demigod...bt also a pure vaishnava... Isnt tht rule of gaudiya sampradaya to serve the das of das of das...
Shiva is lords das... So by serving him arent thy serving lord... Evn if its fr any material desire or no desires... Thy r serving a pure vaishnavite..so wfs wrng in it... U must hv seen in many iskcon temples... Thrz no festival or puja fr shivratri... Or any other festivals...
Hare krsna
After reading the questions and all the replies here..I don't think anyone else can clarify things in a better way than bharat prabhu.The effort put in by bharat prabhu is indeed commendable.
So now what addition am i putting in here..
It may mean nothing or something to you .I know that you know who is Krishna and what is devotional process.Now in devotional life of everybody , one finds things happening contradictory to what one feels should be happening .Let not those events dictate your service to Krishna and the vaishnavas.You keep up the service attitude and these clouds of ignorance which sometimes cover up your clear sky of intelligence will surely dry up with the gyana agni of devotees like Bharat prabhu.