“I worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Govinda, who is always situated in various incarnations such as Rāma, Nṛsiṁha and many subincarnations as well, but who is the original Personality of Godhead known as Kṛṣṇa and who incarnates personally also.” (BS. 5.39)
This Śrī Kṛṣṇa is no other than the inconceivable, original Personality of Godhead. He is the first Nārāyaṇa (SB. 1.9.18)
Bhīṣmadeva says that He is the first Nārāyaṇa. This is also confirmed by Brahmājī in the Bhāgavatam (10.14.14).
The first form of the Lord, Śrī Kṛṣṇa, first expands Himself as the form of Baladeva, and Baladeva expands in so many other forms, such as Saṅkarṣaṇa, Pradyumna, Aniruddha, Vāsudeva, Nārāyaṇa, Puruṣa, Rāma and Nṛsiṁha. All these expansions are one and the same viṣṇu-tattva, and Śrī Kṛṣṇa is the original source of all the plenary expansions. (SB. 1.9.18)purport
from these and few more verse (which i havent quoted), i come to know that all the incarnations in visnu-tattva are same and non-different but lord sri krishna is the source, and others are his plenary expansions
but----------------------------------
That Śrī Rāma, who transformed himself (incarnated) as Krishnā, attained Sarvaatmakta (सार्वभौमिकता) by his very lilā (divine exploits, pastimes); and thus deities-sages-masses were completely satisfied on this earth. I make prostration before that same Śrī Rāma. (Atharvavedā Shrüti Krishnōpanishad 1.1)
In all the scriptures like Vedās, the supreme principle is 'Tāraka Rāma' in the form of Brāhman. Śrī Rāma is the Supreme Brāhman. Śrī Rāma is the supreme form. Śrī Rāma is the Supreme Being. Śrī Rāma is Tarakabrahma. Hanumān Ji preached to the devotee of Śrī Hāri Vīshnu and other Rishis "I myself, Śrī Ganēshā, Goddess Saraswati, Goddess Durgā, All the Guardian (Khetra Pāl), Sun (Suryā), Moon, Lord Śrī Hāri Nāräyana, Lord Naräsimha, Lord Vāsudev (Śrī Krishnā), Lord Vāraha etc. all are the mere parts of Lord Śrī Rāma. Lakshmāna, Shātrughna, Bharata, Vibhishana, Sugriva, Angad, Jambavant and Pranav (Om ॐ) are also mere parts of Lord Śrī Rāma. (Yajurvedā Shäkhayam RāmRahāshyopanishād 1.6/7½)
more verses: https://iskcondesiretree.com/profiles/blogs/sri-rama-the-root-source-of-all-incarnations
from these verse it seems like lord Rama is the source of all incarnations.
dear devotees please help me to clarify this 🙇♂️🙏
Replies
Hare Krishna,
I see that Bharat Prabhu ji gave a fiting reply. What all he said is true. We must not dwell too much into difference between Sri Rama and Sri Krishna. Both are the same person different names.
Secondly, the supereme personality of Godhead is undoubtedly Sri Krishna.
Krishnastu swayam bhagwan.
To make it more clear .. ofcourse Brahmasamhita praises Lord Sri Krishna as Bhagwan and SB says as you have quoted too.
Krishna is uniquely different and have presented with all the 16 kalas. Where as Our Lord Sri Rama is presented Himself or exhibited only 14 kalas.
Both are equal in all respects but Krishna has 4 extras kalas- that is LEELA MADHURIYA, RUPA MADHURYA, PREMA MADHURYA, VENU MADHURYA.
Now.. Vishnu = Narayana= Sri Rama = Sri Krishna . they are one and the same person.. Just like in movies a hero is casting different roles in different movies... The same person has the ability to exibit all these talents but it is the get up and as per the role they change and bring in their special qaulities and talents to be exibited.
All are Supreme Personality of Godhead and no doubt about it. But Our Krishna is avataari as He is Swayam Bhagwan who is the cause of all causes and who is called PARIPOORNA AVATAR /Avatari or the one who takes up various roles.
The Lord who can dance, sing and who can attract everyone with HIS beauty and whose leelas if heard are giving pleasantness to the soul ... it makes us feel closer to Lord.
Now let me tell you something. Lord Vishnu /Narayana too avatars like Matsya...Kurma, Varaha,..Narsimha and Parushurama ..etc. All avatars came into being for establishing dharma and protecting devotees. .. from demons...isn't it..?
But Lord Sri Krishna CAME NOT ONLY TO ESTABLISH DHARMA... AND TO KILL THE DEMONS ( Putna, Bakasura..Aristasura...etc etc..) and protect the devotees from demons... BUT ALSO He came to PLAY WITH DEVOTEES.. HE CAME TO LOVE HIS DEVOTEES.. HE CAME TO ENJOY AND GIVE BLISS TO HIS DEVOTEES.
AISE BHAGWAN KAUN JO APNE DEVOTEES KO DEVOTEES KI TARAH NA treat karke.. Apne jaise treat karega.
Devotees ( like Sridhama.. Madhumangal... Sudhama.. He played with them making them sit on HIS BACK and gave them a piggy back ride.
Devotees like ( the Gopis') He gave them bliss by satisfying their desire to dance with them... and gives Love to them
Devoteess like ( Yashoda Nanda maharaj...) he gave Bliss to them by becoming their son.. Normally a person will have one set of Parents.. This Our Lord Krishna has Two sets of parents.. ( BOTH pairs wanted to become HIS parents..) So Devaki and Vasudeva also became His parents at the Same time.
MAny girls wanted to marry Him... In Rama Avatar ( Maryada Purushottam) He cannot marry more than One. So... Wholesale He married all.. Even till today.. HE IS TAUNTED By many non believers that How can a God marry so many he is not setting a good example that this.. BUT FOR GOD SUPREME PERSONALITY NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE and He cares nothing even if anyone says 1000000000 words against HIM.
AISO BHAGWAN KAHA MILEGO Batao? Jo apne devotees ko apne samaan dekhta ho.. unko hasata ho.. unko rulato ho.. unse khelta ho... unke gharon mein ghuss ke makkhan chori aur dil chori karta ho.. Aur daant bhi khaa tho aur danda bhi khata ho prem se kuch bhi. .MAKKHAN or Danda ( :-))
Aise chitt chor jo .. Supreme Personality ho sakta hai.
HAan aur ek baat. Suno.
Itte saare Vishnu ke avatar aaye.. sabne Demons ka Samhaar kiya.. Sudharshan Chakra se.. Ya fir astra ( weapons ) like AXE or NAILS or BOW AND ARROW... Humare Kanha jo ko Koi Astra Shashtra ( weapons ) ki zaroorat hi nahi padthi.... :-)
Putna ka doodh peeke hi maar diyo
Aghasura ka tummy mein ghus ke maar diya
Trinavrit ka gala daba ke maar daalo
Baka sura ka muhn phaad ke maar daala
Itte bade Kaliyan ko apne Nritya se control kar diya
Kahan use kiya Sudharshan Chakra ?
Chanur mushitkasura ko musti yudh se maar diya.
Bina yudh karein hi Ran chhodh ke bhaga bhaga ke Kaal Yavan ki katha samapt kiyo
Truely Speaking....FOR a Supreme Personality of Godhead Whose just a wink is enough to kill anyone or make them fall for HIM ( in love) Is there any need for Astra Shashtra also.
Krishna shows HIS Original Swaroopa To Arjuna.. Says I am GOD MYSELF..
I am the goal, the sustainer, the master, the witness, the abode, the refuge and the most dear friend. I am the creation and the annihilation, the basis of everything, the resting place and the eternal seed. ( BG 9.18)
It is clear that HE IS ONLY THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD.
WHO HAS EXBHITTED ALL THE QUALITIES 16 kalas in PERFECTION , A Avataari... from whom all the rest of the avatars have been emerging.
It is foolishness to even talk and discuss about this.
If Priyanshu Singh is called Bittu ke pappa ji.. ( by his wife) and his mommy calls his son... Priya ka beta. Or his sister calls him Shu .. or his boss calls him Mr. Singh.. does it change the person? It is the same Priyanshu Singh in different roles at different places ..only that Priyanshu Singh cannot dress up in night suit at office and has to wear an office appropriate dressing and he has a different role. But Priyanshu Singh can exibhit and has potential to exhbit love of a father.. love of a husband or job of a an officer he has all kinds of potential and has all talents.. but all talents cannot be expressed at a office.. though he has all talents in him. If at a place where he can exbit all talents ( showcase his multiple abilities at once) that makes him great person. ( SORRY FOR USING YOUR NAME AS EXAMPLE)
So also Our Krishna is Swayam Bhagwan and is exhibitting all HIS 16 talents or kalas at the same time... In one avatar itself. SO HE IS SUPEREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD.
Hare Krishna.
Hare Krsna
First TRUTH we have to understand that Lord Krishna, Lord Rama, Lord Narasimha, Lord Narayana etc is the same person. That person is the Supreme personality of Godhead.
There is no difference in tattva, the difference is only in rasa or the mood. Please refer to this discussion to understand the difference between them.
Srimad Bhagavatam, Brahma Samhita etc clearly mention Sri Krsna is the source of all the avatara.
from these verse it seems like lord Rama is the source of all incarnations.
I disagree with the above statement. Reason being the 2 shlokas quoted above are not reliable.
There are 2 shlokas you have mentioned from the link you have shared above.
1. (Yajurvedā Shäkhayam RāmRahāshyopanishād 1.6/7½)
एतेषु चैव सर्वेषु तत्त्वं च ब्रह्म तारकम् ।
राम एव परं ब्रह्म राम एव परं तपः ।।
राम एव परं तत्त्वं श्रीरामो ब्रह्म तारकम् ।।
वायुत्रेणोक्तास्ते योगीन्द्रा ऋषयो विष्णुभक्ता हनूमन्तं पप्रच्छुः रामस्याङ्गानि नो ब्रूहीति ।
वायुपुत्रं विघ्नेशं वाणीं दुर्गां क्षेत्रपालकं सूर्यं चन्द्रं नारायणं नारसिंहं वायुदेवं वाराहं तत्सर्वान्त्समात्रान्त्सीतं लक्ष्मणं शत्रुघ्नं भरतं विभीषणं सुग्रीवमङ्गदं जाम्बवन्तं प्रणवमेतानि रामस्याङ्गानि जानीथाः ।
In all the scriptures like Vedās, the supreme principle is 'Tāraka Rāma' in the form of Brāhman. Śrī Rāma is the Supreme Brāhman. Śrī Rāma is the supreme form. Śrī Rāma is the Supreme Being. Śrī Rāma is Tarakabrahma. Hanumān Ji preached to the devotee of Śrī Hāri Vīshnu and other Rishis "I myself, Śrī Ganēshā, Goddess Saraswati, Goddess Durgā, All the Guardian (Khetra Pāl), Sun (Suryā), Moon, Lord Śrī Hāri Nāräyana, Lord Naräsimha, Lord Vāsudev (Śrī Krishnā), Lord Vāraha etc. all are the mere parts of Lord Śrī Rāma. Lakshmāna, Shātrughna, Bharata, Vibhishana, Sugriva, Angad, Jambavant and Pranav (Om ॐ) are also mere parts of Lord Śrī Rāma.
The original sanskrit shloka mentions VAYUDEVA but english translation uses VASUDEVA. Both versions are available in different places, hence this is not reliable.
2. Atharvavedā Shrüti Krishnōpanishad 1.1
The shloka mentioned from this is not part of Krishna Upnaishad or Atharva Veda. Below is the beginning of Krishna Upnaishad
The shloka quoted by you is seems more like an invocation prayer, by some particular translator, rather than being part of the original Atharva Veda or Krishna Upanishad.
Even other shloka in the link given by you mention Lord Sri Rama as Supreme Person, which He undoubtedly is.
I don't think one should dwell too much into the difference between Lord Rama & Lord Krishna
Murari Gupta was an associate of Lord Sri Chaitanya and he is very loyal devotee of Lord Sri Rama. Lord Chaitanya asked him to chant Krishna's names. Murari Gupta tried for few days, went back to Lord Chaitanya and said he cannot give up chanting namesof Rama. He tried and it is impossible for me. Lord Chaitanya appreciated and askedhim to continue to chant names of Rama.
Later on Lord Chaitanya revealed in Mahaprakash leela that Murari Gupta is none other than Anjaneya and Lord Chaitanya showed his form of Sri Rama to Murari Gupta. So for Anjaneya, even Lord Sri Krishna will appear as Lord Rama because they are same person. There are many leelas like this.
If someone wants to worship Rama or Krishna, any of these is perfect. As far as source of all avatara is concerned, no doubt it Sri Krsna.
Hare Krsna