Hare Krishna!
I heard a spiritual master (in ISKCON) say that since we are not these bodies, we can be secure in our souls in the way a person in a house is sheltered from a storm.
I cannot understand this. If I burn myself, I feel terrible pain. If my loved ones suffer, I suffer too. If the plain is going down, I grip the seat with white knuckles.
In what sense are we transcendental to the body? Can we really reach a state where we are "above" the pleasure, pain, fear, etc.?
If you cut me, do you not cut me?
I will appreciate your insights. Haribol.
Replies
Hare Krishna,
Well, practice makes us learn these theoretical things. Ya, if you cut me now I feel pain and may cry.. But have you seen how does a child cry when he is hurt? VERY PITIABLY RIGHT???? Do we cry the same way as the child.. for small injuries..? we have grown up. We are now able to tolerate some small small injuries.. Time teaches every one slowly.
When I was a child I was taken to the doctor's office for vaccination.....I used to cry at lot seeing the syringe itself. At the time I remember my doctor saying...divert her attention to something else.. and used to give me some toy ..I was busy playing with the toy....and i didn't even realize when they poked me also.
Sometimes we get impulses to vomit/throw up, elders who are near us say divert ur mind to something pleasant...you can control that thought.
Recently I was at a amusement park, I never get on rides it makes me giddy..But somehow this time I was forced by my relatives and I had been on a roller coaster ride. It was terrifying, deathly...But I could get over it....I just closed my eyes and chanted Mahamantra.....When I closed my eyes I could see only the lotus feet of Lord and the ride was over. AFTER THE RIDE WAS OVER I thought ..please Lord when at the time of death I heard it is going to be not less then a roller coaster ride for me..Please be with me just as you were with me this time.
When we fix our mind to the lotus feet of lord we can face any hardship. We can get above all pains and pleasures fears...It is not easy to fix our minds ....be must practice to make ourselves perfect in removing our mind from material things and diverting it to Krishna...
As lord said.. BG 6.35-
May be, we have to identify ourselves like a person, which consist of soul, gross body and subtle body. Whole package, but not one or two of them. I did not read too much, so I may say something unacceptable, so please forgive me! Hare Krishna, Hare Rama
Hare Krsna
True, it is unacceptable.
Hare Krsna
the person is the soul , the subtle and gross bodies are the outer dress .. you know that :)
Our consciousness is contaminated by material association.. so we mistake our bodies as our SELVES.
Terms such as American , Indian, man,women , tall ,short ,rich poor are all TEMPORARY MATERIAL DESIGNATIONS
Important point is its not a mental adjustment to make ,theory is one thing, realised knowledge is another.
If we take up bhakti yoga with some faith then with time we will have that slow dawning of a realisation ' YES i am not this body, i am spirit soul the eternal servant of God "
Its takes time and theres no short cuts certainly not in verbally repeating "I AM NOT THIS BODY < I AM NOT THIS BODY " like a robot :)
its begins with faith, i have read this yoga book, it may or may not be true let me practice and see what the result
By the way i have no standing in Krsna consciousness but I've had glimpses of what i have mentioned above
All glory to the truth as-it is.
Using the terms "we are not this bodys" seems in conflict to the direct-experience of the illusory identification of the self as the body & it's pain attachments & the experience of sepperation. One or two words can explain & make this "mantra" or affirmation "we are not these bodies"a rerealizable* understanding! Yoga & Chanting! To experience this truth 1st. one must understand that (Yoga) is, & requires a Conchus* and a physical effort! Yoga is an exercise/a working moving expansion & streching of one's body & energies, & it also involves & coupled with an ever improving state of mental awareness that continuesly expands and impruves as long as you are working to maintain your conchus awareness of your body it's energies and posture. Okay Now, combine that energetic momentum/ intensity with the divine mantra(s). And this
almost imperceptible/subtal movement of internal energetic Intergraty and you are spritulizing your body. Thus you will be "directly experiencing a state of being that is in the world but not of it! Understatably offering your association to others while in this inhanced state of mental/intellectual & energetic Intergraty is *much more benafishal that your chanting without any efforts to be present/attentive to what you are doing or your posture. This is yoga, & it is with-practice considerd divine yoga.
So my point is, that it is a fact that, thrugh yoga whitch is = to, time spent experiencing the divine. In such states physical pains and mental anxiety are diminished to the point of nonexistent. Thus we enter a state or experience that is in the body but not of it. Which further attests to the *truth that we are eternally we are a Spirit Soul but only temporarily a physical body. I hope that helped. In your quest to elevate the pain in your heart mind & body. Om Tat Sat.
frankly speaking we can never understand this and even if we understand our mind doesnt accept. when an exhalted soul like Arjuna who directly heard BG saw infinite form of the lord as well as his 4 handed form couldnt overcome his grief of Abhimanyus death and took a vow to kill jayadratha then what to speak of we unfortunate people of kaliyuga.
even artificially trying to convince ourselves that our body is hurt not our soul will also wont work. ONLY AND ONLY BY CONTINUOS BHAKTI YOGA DO WE AUTOMATICALLY REACH THAT STAGE OF REALIZATION. bhakti yoga is a gradual process. take for e.x. saint Tukaram he lost all his opulence as well as his son but still that did not deter him from Vitthal or saint Meera Bai she lost her husband very early but she said all i want is Krishna. (Both these greats were Krishna bhakts since childhood)
That is a sobering thought about Arjuna. And I appreciate your point about not trying to artificially convince ourselves that we are not affected by bodily pain (or sickness, or pleasure, or grief, of whatever). I have no doubt that that is true at an ultimate level that these bodily states do not affect us, but I am certainly not at that ultimate level. Thank you for sharing your insights.
Hare Krishna,
So far what I heard in various lectures, videos of Srila Prabhupada and other Acharya’s, I tried to put them in way to answer your question, with a hope that this may be of some help for you to trace your answer. I also request Senior devotees to correct me if they notice something wrong in the below information.
Actually all of us want to be happy. We want no problem, no worries and there has to only enjoyment. Material world is created for those souls just like father sends his child to some tutor to get disciplined. Now if we think deep, what we feel happy about? We can find it is just with respect to 10 senses and mind in this body. But what happens when we die. The body remains as it is, eye is there, ear is there, but consciousness cannot be evoked in that dead body. Consciousness is a feature of soul, not of the body. Therefore even if body parts are present, a dead body is none but lump of matter only.
Just in underwater diving, we need to wear certain dress, similarly in this world a soul needs to wear the suit called body with mind and senses. A soul can be given any suit among 8,400,000 various suits based on laws of God. But only when a soul gets a human body suit, he can progress to understand that there is something more than this body. If we analyze the happiness we find with this body, we can see that they are all temporary, all on the perception that we are body, ejection and reception of chemicals. Even if we get all happiness, no worries in this body, but still there remains 4 things which we cannot stop at all – birth, old age, disease and death and its associated pains. So a thoughtful person will see the sufferings of this world and ask the question: “Is there a way to end the suffering?” and such questions are the beginning of spiritual life and the beginning of actual human life. The Vedanta Sutra begins with "athato brahma jijnasa" - “In the human form of life one should question about spirit [brahman].”
- Jai Shri Krishna !! Jai Bhakt Prahlad ki Jai !!
Hare Krishna,
PAMHO.
I appreciate your insights very much. I have no doubt that I am not my body and that I will survive death. What strikes me as challenging is the idea that the soul is totally transcendent to the body and to experience. If I get sick, I can say in truth, I think, that *I* am sick. There is not transcendent position into which I can retreat, it seems. But as Radha Rasamayi DD pointed out, we are obliged to accept these bodies and these experiences. I am just wondering about the transcendental platform--what that means.
Haribol!
Your servant,
Doran
-
1
-
2
of 2 Next