I'd like to discuss something very important about reincarnation and the fact Krishna is in each and every being.

Still reading after the Gita and Bhagavatam and many other works now the Purana's, there are so many stories about one got in jeaperdy and is born in animal stock or vegitations etc. and regain their human form lateron. 

The question or discussion is; one can make always a misstep(misstep in the eye's of bhakti-yoga go to Godhead) and be born in other spices. In Purana's loads of stories even the ones who were saints of minor believers but on the path of self-realization. Sometimes one make a descision to do something against bhakti or deviant on the path, sometimes by excedent or force( think of bad position you might get into and do things best out of 2 bad things think of war or rape or disaster times) Still you all may agree it is all the 3 modes of nature, wich is correctly speaking, but theoretical/filosophical discussions are in the acts often not very pleasing or helpful. In other words; easier said than done! Like"If you know it all, why you still have a material body on this planet?"  Not need to be harsh it's all a learning process.

To the point;

Is it really that bad or unforgiven to be reborn in a non human life form? I mean once there were 2 trees in some backyard wich Krishna as a kid playfully with something rooted up thoose trees and their souls got deliverd. Not only Krishna , but indirectly many others where eventually to the stage to be fit to go to Vaikuntha!

I often asked this to devotees, they often said;"It is our duty to get to Krishna in an instant!" ....right...

But life after life you get merits and demerits, the fact one is now talking(typing) about Krishna topics is already a huge step forwards! As many times Krishna says; "My devotee will never get lost!" 

For me living in a huge struggle of life( well every single person has it's own trouble due the 3 modes of nature&karma of past and present deeds/lives)It's very often in lectures the Earth is like a prison, or life is a prison, but I am the only one who can tell you all about a real prison how it is like inside. Even there I had build a altar and offerd bhoga, had lights&incence plus kept chanting Hare Krishna! It was not too bad.

Many inmates killed themselves, once a month 2 or 4 in total. I see it as a reset button. By birth you forget your previous life anyways, unless one gives you water from Indrapastra well(it was Pdma purana right?)then you regain all your previous lives. 

So here the thing; to take your life there are many motivations. As a ignorance person, to escape, in warzones, prevent to be raped or robed, haring that Krisna is offended very very badly one could kill themselves and a yogi who like to transfer to another body or even planet! All will get their karmic reactions and most importantly all had karmic things why they wee put in that situations. Thing is; is all so black and white? Suïcide may not always bad. The position one get is up to karmic ways AND what you gained to the path towards Krishna! Even if one went to thousands of years of hells and lifeforms non-human, one certainly begets a human lifform again. Time is an illusion for the soul. Because the soul cannot die right?! 

So why are the scriptures so clear and people discuss them as clear as water but in reality are afraid for death/leaving the body? Or afraid to make misstaps?!  

The many trouble I underwent might not for everyone easy to handle. The reset button seems for me a very good option. Joined the many ratha Yatra's, harinam's, programs and read and listen so many Krishna books and topics I am not very afraid for hell or lower life forms. Because The Supersoul as a withness is in every creature, movable or unmovable! Why is that so hard to get? Like "You are not this body" the famous phrase. So how come the many hells and hellish planets we must be afraid for if we know a little about Krishna?! And we are the soul and not the body? Tortures and way to Yamaraja the distance etc. why bother? Be physically and mentally abused for years myself, what is pain anyway?

So after reading this, what is your opinion about if one ends it's life? Or better give sacred texts to strengthen your statement. Again, if you see the Supersoul in every creature, why not love every creature and care each and every creature the way Krishna's propperty worth it? Animals for example humans discriminate them as lower, BUT as stated in many purana stories every devotee could end up in a animal life form. So be careful to discriminate.

Even your now loved one could end up be a animal or plant/vegitation or mountain! So f the soul still keep loving that other soul, as soulmates than spiritually there is a good thing, but materially in human prespective a troublesome situation. Human vs animal or human vs vegitation, you get the point! Not in ignorance state! There were saints begot a non human life form and their lover be a human which was solved lateron. In 'normal' eye's it is beastiality! But Krishna likes to play with our minds. People find this very nasty even devotees are against this. Just I like to make clear; you might have a partner now, or family in greater speaking. BUT due their actions they could end up in other life forms or were other life forms before you are family of them. How difficult is that to understand if you know the Gita, know Krishna?! No need to be harsh. If a animal is very frustrated and makes all sorts of behaviour human alike, there must be some reason for it. Trapped in a animal body, but still small conciousness of human understandings. Because it is the soul who lives forever in every entity! How hard is it to get?

I hope to have your attention by now to realize not all is black and white. And never can judge on the higher platform. If I for example would leave my body premature (what even is premature, it's all karma, Krishna's arrangements even suïcide, Krishna won't like it, but would not hold aginst it, He just sighs and let His demigods decide to you be born again in what setting BUT will get your soul get His attention again in that lifeform. It be prasadam, a devotee sight or visit by change a holy place to remember Him)I for one had explained my opinion and what I understood so far from the scriptures. Even if I may be wrong, this discussion is meant to tell me otherwise, be kind. It is never easy to see your loved one be killed or abused and many trauma's made me almost impossible to gain a normal life with a partner and have kids. Unable to have a job and unable to join social life due criminal records and misunderstandings of illigal be adopted in the first place. Than a reset button is very much music in my ears.The newly life I get new oppertunities. And as all scriptures tells us, a devotee of Krishna never perishes. How many times it is told, chant only once His names and you are rescued?! Like I wrote many times now;  merits and demerits only Krishna knows. No need to be afraid nor sad. When deathpenalty is uplifted, it is very harsh for ex-convicted ones to gain a normal life amoung the public, believe me. Everyone claims; the sentence is done, you are free. But in their minds you are still a dirty person who not deverve to live on. That my devotees is the reality! If you keep all this long story in mind, is suïcde really that bad?

Thanks for reading, thanks for reacting in the future. All I wanted is a little understanding of my pov of life as it is for me in an open prison. It's all past life karma, but not easy or nice to deal with. For no one.Please love Krishna, your loved one in this world may look different in the lives to come, could you love your partner still if a animal, vegitation or unmovable creature, or same gender as you are? If you can, you are very close to Krisna Conciousness highest stage. Because you see the soul within and most likely Krishna! Not talking about the 2 modes of nature; passion or ignorance. Than you randomly may love or like some creature. I am talking about a special bound seen in one another wich might be lost connection with in past lives. Still if passion drives you to love each and every creature, in non discrimination way. That might still be on the level of Krishna conciousness as long you love the supersoul within the other and not discriminate the outward body.

Chant Hare Krishna!








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  • Sevak

    Hare Krsna 

    Suïcide may not always bad.  The reset button seems for me a very good option.

    The reason someone may think of suicide is that their existing life is miserable. The reason their existing life is miserable is due to bad karma. Suicide creates very very huge amount of bad karma. So anyone thinking of escaping life instead of utilizing it, will get even more bad karma in their next life. Which will make their next life even more miserable. 

    Suicide is not solution for miserable life. Such mentality of escaping is the cause of a miserable. Instead one should use their human form of life in a responsible manner and ty to cultivate Krsna consciousness while depending on Krsna. Everyone is free to have their opinon, but all scriptures of all bonafide religions condemn suicide. 

    Even an animal, bird or plant will want to live. Evey species will strive and fight for their life. It is unfortunate that human beings considered more intelligent think of suicide as a solution. This is unacceptable.

    Hare Krsna

  • Being born into a human life is a rare opportunity.  It is best not to waste it.  Sure... 2 trees that we know of were liberated... but figure the odds of it happening to us.  Any mistakes made in this life can be erased by pure bhakti.   When we die, our next life is chosen by our current life - the choices, karma, and consciousness.  There is no telling where you would end up, or when you might get another chance at a human form. This life is meant to be used in Krishna’s service.

    Thinking of it as a reset button is a dangerous, and lazy, way to view death.  Think about it logically.  If you can end your life, and walk away from everything in the hopes of a ‘reset’… why not stay alive, walk away from everything, and do your own reset.   Better to walk away from your old life, even friends and family, and start a life of devotion, than to waste this rare chance at a human form.


    "Acts such as suicide are influenced by the mode of ignorance, and in ignorance and passion one cannot understand who Kṛṣṇa is."

    Caitanya-caritāmṛta Antya 4.57


    Lord Caitnaya speaking to Srila Sanatana Gosvami:

    “Your decision to commit suicide is the result of the mode of ignorance. One cannot get love of God simply by committing suicide. You have already dedicated your life and body to My service; therefore your body does not belong to you, nor do you have any right to commit suicide. I have to execute many devotional services through your body.”

    Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Antya-lila Chapter 4 

    • Hare Krishna! 


      Good awnser!

      Like I wrote in the replay to Punkech Patel; the married thing. It is a rare oppertunity indeed. Just wanted to point out for the soul, time is an illusion. Because the soul is never born never dies. So if the soul enters a body and leaves it, it does not matter. The life of humans , animals, plants, demigods all experience time of life differently. A day of me is longer experienced than a day of you or other lifeform. Yes time is a fact, but a circle. The many yuga's and kalpa's start over and over again. 

      Out of affection or to be close with Krishna the many souls took a body again when Krishna came to this planet and played with the gopis and killed demons(well get them back to Him again in fact) So even if in Vaikuntha your/your soul might be loved to born again on Earth when He is here too. Love or Krishna. Even if the body is under severe missery, as they all say if born on earth.

      Yes if we die always remember Him. earier said than done. However if a pure Bhakta (or Bhaktin) you can. I wonder why some are still here Like I wrote. But that's not the issue here.

      Yes the body not belong to me or you or have right to commit suïcide. It is simple and same very disturbing complex. I always wonder if quote texts, to live by that is very hard. The material world demands you; work, pay tax, be a citizen of a certain country obey their rules(even if it is not Krishna conciousness based)   To reset or escape can be explained in 2 ways I am afraid now.

      1 by pure bhakti and go back to godhead

      2 by ignorance and beget another body but after many lifeforms you will get there anyways.

      To read it is dangerous and lazy to reset is true if you reset for no reason. I did read somewhere, if Krishna is offended or his devotees so badly it is to block your ears/eye's or even kill yourselves.

      Yes you are spiritually very correct; Pure Bhakti, go to holi places and do ekadashi etc etc. can even erase killing a brahmana states everywhere! So my discussion is on the material platform versus spiritual one. Like me if you had done your sentence in prison, it is done right? You are clean, BUT, in the eye's of the general public and even devotees I know here close to me, I am still the bad person even I do effort to chant as much I can, and do all the things prescribed in holy texts. Why is it still so difficult for devotees to accept me as for who I am and not push me into suïcidal toughts?

      I know right, it is the mind of me who forces me to think of a reset by the comments I get by even devotees. 

      So the 2 verses/texts you wrote to me in replay, I wonder I must be in ignorance and passion it seems. Helping at many Ratha Yatra festivals and such incognito I was trying to get acceptence and try to fit in. But the oppesit happend. Behind my back they talked about the past deeds. So I wonder what pure bhakti is and if apply can people finally stop looking into my past? I know right pure bhakti has nothing to do with material nature like Punkech Patel writes.  But stil if you are on a offenders list world wide, no devotee or ISKCON can erase that fact I am afraid and I never ever can work or do things in general without people knowing my past deeds. 

      So it is very good I still chant I geuss and keep up the discussion, spiritual speaking and read Krishna books, but the BUT is still a hard thing to deal with. Outside this forum or outside a holy place or conversation about Krishna, in a solicitating conversation to get a job they always find out your criminal record. FACT, so material does matter sadly. 

      And that is why I wanted to discuss the reset or suïcide matter. How to survive if you cant work or be a inittiated devotee. Because I am very, very curious which maharaja would ever take me as a diciple . As far I know by initation your spiritual master takes a bit of your burden of you. So I might be a cause to get a maharaja be fallen. Certainly if the press get news a ex convicted joins 'the club'. ISKCON can't permit more scandles. I don't want that to be happen. 

      That is why a reset is for me the best I am afraid, even if I have to take many many life forms to get where I am now. Wich is discusable. Only Krishna due Yamaraja can (like in earthly court) judge about that and no one else. Thinking of the story of Ajimali and The King who taught about the deer at the moment of death. They both in the end came where they have to come. It took a bit, but yes. 

      I am aware of what you said "figure the odds of it happening to us" I wonder... even many passeges it has been written; if you are a devotee or intrested in Krishna now, it had to be the outcome of previous lifes&deeds you are now towards Krishna. So in my opinion all thoose so called hippies who were around Srila Prabhupada were in fact deviant souls who in previous lifes were devotees of The Lord, but due durrent material cover seen as hippies and/or drug addicts. The strong will within the soul to connect with the supersoul aka Krishna, Prabhupada knew due Krishna to awaken and boom, they became beatiful devotees...again in their lifeforms now! So to reset is a thing we can never be shure of or control. If Krishna wants us to be on his side no matter what, even if you for the outward world do ignorace or passionate things, the inner soul just get pulled back to Him again. 

      We are all judges and professionals it seems often. But even a judge could end up wrong or deluded by the fact a jury of public can push the judge in a certain direction, while the facts and evedence are silly or less than the outcome in the sentence. Or if the remanded person plea guilty due circumstances unknown a sentence just is spoken out without any propper research, fact.

      I don't want to be rude or offend you or others who read this. I just want to say; quotes are the basics, but apply them at the spot is the challenge! Be honest to yourselves, do you all take the books 100% to hearth? I geuss if do so, you are a saint who demanded to be born on earth even if it meant to leave Vaikuntha! But I probibly think very few are like that, we are all learning I geuss. Me also! That's whay I liked to discuss this all.

      So as you wrote; "beter to walk away from your old life, even friends and family.."yes I did that, but the but... you can't walk away from governments! If you are on the offenders list worldwide, how in Krishna you can pretent to say; yeah that was the old me, material bla bla! Police don't buy that, your future boss you want to work also not, offficials note too. Even devotees. Yes it has been 10 years now I am free but still thinking logically is hard to do so. I can't marry, buy a house get a job. Or live in a temple wich I tried.So bad.

      Pure bhakti, yes 100% that! Please accept me for who I am now, not what is on records stored in dusty government registers.



      • When Narad muni met the tribal Ratnakar, he was a murderer, looting tresspassers of jungle, killing the innocent and looting money, gold from them, thriving on jungle animals. Narad muni simply asked this tribal.. tell me who are you doing all this for?

        Tribal replied-- I am doing this for the sake of my wife and children. to make them happy. 

        Narad muni- asked are they happy with whatever you do for them?

        tribal replied- yes

        Narad muni said go and ask them if they are willing to take a share of you paap karma ( sinful deeds) done also? as whatever you get out of killing animals and murdering innocent people they are eating and enjoying it. So go and ask ur wife and kids .. if they are willing to share your results of sinful activities also? 

        Because the sins committed by you will land you into hellish conditions forever. If they are willing to share ur burden there in hell too that would be better.

        Tribal said why not they are my wife my kids after all. They will surely share my bad karma too. As you are insisting me to go and find from them. let me go and ask them and come back to me. Will you wait for me??

        Narad muni said I am going to wait for you. Please go and come back.

        Tribal ran to his home and asked his wife and children  but they totally rejected this. What?? why would we have to suffer the sins committed by you?

        Tribal never expected this and came back fell on the feet of Narad muni and Narad muni being very compassionate humble Pure Vaishnava, a mahajana, gave him instruction to start reciting the name of  Lord " RAMA"

        Narad muni ji became the guru for the tribal and initiated him to Holy name Shree Rama. Later due to getting such a great guru who instructed him on the right path.  This tribal became VALMIKI himself who wrote the Ramayana.

        Now to instruct a criminal the guru must be of this high Stature.  Who will not care for his own loss or gain.  


        accept all those people say and suffer it all that is my opinion.

        If the people are saying something behind you and infront of you. They are licking ur bad karma off and you are burning off ur sins. Let them say anything. Just suffer it and let this sins wash off.

        That is only the permanant solution. Don't be a coward and run away from people who are abusing/insulting you. Face them and let them spit on ur face and let them say nonsense you keep quiet and listen and let the sins wash off.

        Be silent even if they agitate you. DoNOT react. If that is really bothering you.. You tell to Krishna. He will Listen to you. But let these bad talks happen against you. It may take a life time. But let you suffer it off  totally in one life time itself. DONOT CARRY FORWARD TO NEXT LIFE BY ABRUPTLY ENDING THIS LIFE. You may get another life or you may be revoloving here on earth as GHOST because those who commit Suicide will not even get another body to suffer for their bad deeds.  They become Ghost and it would be an endless  existence of ghost. there is no way you can come out of a pret yoni.

        The more the people insulting you that is better a Blessing IN DISGUISE FOR You. sufffer it silently end this chapter in this life time here itself. 

        Mahamantra effect of cleansing your sinful deeds is by making people slander you and burn ur sins like that.

        LET ALL ABUSE YOU. But you keep ur cool and suffer it in silence take refuge of Lord Sri Krishna.

        You become close to God accept Lord only as your guru. Lord is Jagadguru. You seek His divine shelter. And don't worry keep on chanting and suffering.

        MAXimum what can the people do??
        they may laugh at you. They may shunn you

        they may leave ur company. Thats all na..  Or they may talk behind you or make fun of you.

        WHEN YOUR EGO BECOME ZERO. You wont even react to anything.

        MAke Yourself so empty form inside EGO free that.. No matter what people say.. You can give a deaf ear. 

        If you have ego you will react, retaliate fight, If you are egoless.. you don't even react. 

        so work on this ego. Make yourself immune to all wounds caused by people by building a strong wall of Mahamantra around you.

        Become humble and say thanks to those who are licking you filth and making your pure and pure.

        Become humbler and humbler. 

        One time Buddha was asked by a person why don't you react to anything around you. People keep talking bad things about you. How can you still be so calm?

        Buddha replied. The scorpions habit is to bite and sting. It is its nature.  When the scorpion is so much following its basic instinct of stinging. I am better than it. I am a human.  My basic nature is compassion. How will I lose my calm and compassionate nature this is my basic nature.

        so people's basic instinct is to make fun of others. if thats their nature. I am basically compassionate and tolerant that is my nature. They can't leave their nature and I cannot leave my nature. 

        This was the reply!!

        become Humble than the blade of the grass. Tolerant than then the fully laden fruit tree.

        How is a fully LADEN fruit tree do you know? people hit the mango tree with stone and cut the branches. but the tree doesn't react. It is tolerant and it only gives sweet fruits back in return to those who hit it with stone. Become like that. 

        Than only you will see change in people some day!!!!

        You cannot change ur circumstances and people around you. All you can change is change yourself to such an extent that every one will recognise  your greatness Became a Buddha. Meaning. Become tolerant.

        Hare Krishna.


  • the POINT that nobody ever understands is.. krishna has nothing to do with your life (material life) think about it. Krishna is not material. His spiritual. If you have bad stuff in life its due to mateiral nature NOT krishna. KRISHNA HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MATERIAL THINGS. DEAL WITH IT

    • Hare Krishna!

      Very good replay. As the supersoul within as a whitness He sees things. All I wanted to point out is the way things could end up. Like if you marry in front of Krishna, I forget, but are you than husband and wife for like 7 lifetimes? So if one of you make a terrible, terrible material mistake and be born in a non human spices, or be cursed... oopsie than how to be your lover in that next lifeform? That is my biggest question of all. Are you than both doomed to be non human and be a married couple of animals or vegitation or whatever?

      Again it is material, you are right. 


      Hare Krishna!



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