Hare Krishna!!!
Dandwat Pranam, PAMHO, AGTSP
Yesterday one of my collegues asked a question on the positioning of the planetary systems, which i myself was not convinced.
Query 1:Why are the adhaloks (lower loks) near to Vishnu(navel) through the lotus stem.
Query 2: Do all persons travel to pitra lok first on death and from there they travel further to swarg/naraka lok based on their karmas?
Query 3 :Those persons who do not achieve either swarga lok or naraka lok,do they remain forever in pitra lok or they have to take birth again...In short is pitra lok a permanent residing place for some or it is only a temporary place for further transit.
Need some clarifications on shastric grounds to convince.
YAS
Sumeet
Replies
Hare Krishna Sumeet Prabhu,
Question1:- There are 3 forms of Vishnu. 1. Karnodakshya Vishnu ( from whose body pores ananta koti Brahmanda or crores of universes are formed) by exhaling Lord form universes. Karnadakshya Vishnu expands to form 2. Garbodakshaya Visnu (He enters each universe ) and lying on the Sesha and from His naabhi comes Brahma ji. Now Garbodakshya Vishnu expands into 3. Kshirodakshya Vishnu ( who enters into the heart of every living non living being ) as Parmatma.
So you can see the Garbodakshaya Vishnu is lying on Sesha and Sesha holding the on of his hoods one universe. Sesha is sitting under and even below the Patala loka holding the burden of entire zillions of such universes on His hoods. One universe is shown in the figure above.
I hope it is clear.
Question 2. :- People who have been dearly attached to certain things go for it. Like for suppose, I got attachment to my house and cannot leave it even on the death bed. Then I will be born in the same house again. If someone is attached to their grandparents or parents a lot. Cannot forget them even after they die. They go to Pitru loka.
If someone does lot of punya karma he gets chance to stay in swarga loka for sometime until his punya karma gets exhausted. Than he is thrown back to Earth. As the person still has desire to live and enjoy something.
If someone does lot of Papa Karma he get to stay in Hell to suffer some of the papa karma there and thrown back to suffer rest of the paap karma on Earth as well as enjoy some good karma effects also and also gets chance to raise above these both paap and punya. ( look like I do some good karma but without knowing I may do side by side some bad karma also) ..
I have to attain stay in swarga loka for sometime to enjoy the good karma until exhausted and go to Hell to suffer for the sins ( if they are very severe) if not severe then I am thrown back to Earth to suffer for the sins commited as well as enjoy some left over good karmas and also get chance to finish my desires and also get chance to raise above these paap and punya and try for moksha. Moksha is the first step ( basic step to get liberated from this shareer) there after as per my level of tapasya.. or sadhana. I keep raising above to higher planetary systems.
Suppose My bad karma and good karma bank account is both nullified. I get mukti. I am now Mukta aatma. Now ( my soul) needs no body covering to either enjoy the fruits of good karma or suffer the sinful activities. So now the soul is mukta atma. free. liberated.
Free soul can do tapasya attain tapa loka or do some more pious activities raise to even brhama loka or can do chintan on Sri Krishna go back to Godhead too.
Pitruloka is abode of ancestors who are waiting for their progeny to do karma kanda and offer shardha or do some good karma or read bhagwatam in their name or offer ekadashi vrat fruit in their name. So that they can ascend to higher planetary systems.
Pitruloka is pit stop to those souls who all the while were depending on their family for the support. They don't believe in anything but family.
Like too much attachment to the family and progeny. They don't even think about God and rely on His holy name. There was king he was so much attached to the kingdom carried his family name and worked hard to get name fame for his family.. donated money and gave in charity gold etc. but only to get name and fame only for his son's future and get name or keep up the name. Such people go to Pitruloka after they enjoyed their stay in swarga loka ( for the charity done). They cannot go ahead as their positive deeds are ended in swarga loka.. now they wait for the next generation to give them some credits to go ahead.
Hope it is clear.
Hare Krishna.
Hare Krishna Mataji,
Dandwat Pranam, PAMHO, AGTSP,
Thanks for the response, however still one doubt is there, since Yamraja (Dharmaraja) is the King of the pitra loka and he issues judjement for all living entites, so do technically do the living entities first visit his court in pitra loka for judgemnet and then board to the planet where he/she is destined.
YAS,
Sumeet
NO
One who dies taking the holyname on His lips or one who wears TULASI Kanti mala even Yama dhootas fear and leave the person and Vishnu dhootas take the such person to Vaikunta lokas. ** Remember AJamila katha?"
Rest all have to visit wait for judgement yes. spend some time in heaven and some time in hell and stay in pitru loka until you get suitable body to suffer or enjoy on Earth also.
Hare Krsna
Is pitra lok a permanent residing place for some or it is only a temporary place ?
every loka in the 14 planetary system within the material universe from the bottom most hellish planets to topmost brahmaloka is temporary. Pitru loka is also temporary. This is mentioned by lord Sri Krsna in Bhagavad Gita
mām upetya punar janma
duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam
nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ
saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ
After attaining Me, the great souls, who are yogīs in devotion, never return to this temporary world, which is full of miseries, because they have attained the highest perfection. ( BG 8.15)
But Pitruloka is not a just a tranist point like a railway station. There are jivas who live in Pitru loka. This is also mentioned by Lord Sri Krsna in BG
yānti deva-vratā devān
pitṝn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ
bhūtāni yānti bhūtejyā
yānti mad-yājino ’pi mām
Those who worship the demigods will take birth among the demigods; those who worship the ancestors go to the ancestors; those who worship ghosts and spirits will take birth among such beings; and those who worship Me will live with Me. (BG 9.25)
None of the planetary systems within material world is permament. In fact material world itself is not permanent. It is created and destroyed again and again.
bhūta-grāmaḥ sa evāyaṁ
bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate
rātry-āgame ’vaśaḥ pārtha
prabhavaty ahar-āgame
Again and again, when Brahmā’s day arrives, all living entities come into being, and with the arrival of Brahmā’s night they are helplessly annihilated. ( BG 8.19)
Hare Krsna
Hare Krishna Prabhiji,
Dandwat Pranam, PAMHO, AGTSP,
Thanks for the response, however still one doubt is there, since Yamraja (Dharmaraja) is the King of the pitra loka and he issues judjement for all living entites, so do technically do the living entities first visit his court in pitra loka for judgemnet and then board to the planet where he/she is destined.
YAS,
Sumeet
hare krsna prabhu,
Please read bhagwatam 5th canto then all your questions will be answered. Copy pasting team will do its work but the basic principle you are missing out here is, these are upper planets things and one is elligible to travel to upper planets only when qualifications are acquired. What are those qualifications? 26 qualities along with100% purification-(chitta shuddhi) and what happens after purification? "romanch kampashru" how many you see around you having those symptoms required to visit upper planets?
Hare Krsna Vrndavan Krsna prabhuji,
PAMHO.
YOu have been such a regular devotee on this forum over the years and have contributed so much to the movement and are highly respected in IDT for that.
Now what has happened to you? Even if people are doing copy paste while replying to questions on Forum, what is wrong in that? Srila Prabhupada has said - simply repeat what you have read/ heard, without any addition/ deletion. That much is enough. So by doing copy paste, devotees are simply following instructions. Why is it looked down upon?
This negativity was never in you and is not looking good in you. You can answer any question to the best of your ability, without being condescending on other potential answers.
I am waiting for that same old sanguine devotee I am used to.
Hare Krsna Sumeet prabhu,
PAMHO.
To answer your questions, I am certain of one thing - pitr loka is one of the 14 planetary systems of the material world, hence temporary. Soul taht goes to pitr lok will eventually wander around the 14 planetary systems, as per karma.
Rest I will have to read once before I reply.
Haribol,
Your servant,
Radha Rasamayi DD
Haribol,
Your servant,
Radha Rasamayi DD