Hare Krishna to all devotees, Please accept my humble obeisance.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
One of my devotee friend told me that we have our role already decided in Golok irrespective of how and in which form we pray ... Lord Krishna is the only god whom we can worship as a friend, son and as a lover also... I worship lord Krishna as a friend and even if I reach Golok after n number of years.. I would like to serve Krishna as a friend only and I will be fortunate enough if get a chance to play with him.. that will be the most wonderful experience .... I know even if I can be a blade of a grass I can serve Krishna BUT being a grass or being a animal there is not actually we are looking for to be our role in golok ... Please advance devotees correct me if m going worng.. just the ques pop up in my mind....
Hare Krishna
your servant
Amit Mehra
Replies
Nityananda !
Gauranga 11
Hare krsna,
Dearest Amit prabhu,
Your question is 100 % transcendental and very elaborate discussions needs to be done in this regard. I had tried my level best to provide you a satisfying answer, but i beg you to humbly do more chanting as these aspects like knowledge of eternal goloka vrindavana, becoming krsna's associate, eternal life in vaikuntha , participating in krsna's lilas in sakhya rasa, vatsalya rasa, dasya rasa, madhurya rasa etc... are all subject matters of deep spiritual revelation. Many elaborate explanations are given in brahma vaivarta purana, srimad bhagavatam , jaiva dharma, madhurya kadambini, Gita govindam of jayadeva goswami, and many other books of previous acharyas...although lots of information regarding goloka, activities of gopis, etrnal function of souls who are nitya siddhas and nitya baddhas in material worlds are elaborately explained, still without reaching certain stage, we cannot properly understand these activities in goloka, the infinite petalled lotus...lots of information is also available in brahma samhita..too....i will quote a very fundamental sloka from brahma samhita....
TEXT 38
premänjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena
santah sadaiva hrdayesu vilokayanti
yam syämasundaram acintya-guna-svarüpam
govindam ädi-purusam tam aham bhajämi
I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, who is syämasundara, Krsna Himself with inconceivable innumerable attributes, whom the pure devotees see in their heart of hearts with the eye of devotion tinged with the salve of love.
This stage of ultimate love is called prema, which is the ultimate pinnacle or zenith point of bhakti to the lord...As krsna is infinite, krsna bhakti is infinite ( radharani is devotional service personified) and srimati radharani is also infinite, being the hladini shakti or internal energy of the lord..hence there are infinite activities in krsna bhakti...All these rasas are connected to krsna only...not any demigod in this material world...only krsna who is transcendental ...
There are eight progressive stages of development on the path of bhakti. whether one if following the path of vaidhi bhakti or Raganuga bhakti. Both paths lead to prema bhakti. Although as we will learn, there are different grades of prema. Both paths donot lead to vraja ( vrindavana)...only raganuga bhakti gives one access to vraja.
1. Sraddha - Preliminary faith in krsna and the process of bhakti.
2. Sadhu sanga - association with advanced vaishnava devotees.
3. Bhajan - kriya - Engaging in sadhana- bhakti and Guru-seva.
4. Anartha Nivritti - Dimishing and eradication of activities and behavior unfavorable to bhakti.
5. Nistha - Unshakable faith and steadiness in sadhana and bhajana.
6. Ruchi - Experiencing a spontaneous taste and attraction for krsna from sadhana and bhajana.
7. Aasakti - Deep attachment to krsna and immersion in chanting, hearing and lila smarana.
8. Bhava - Awakening of prema, realization of your identity and form and direct darshana of krsna. ( This is what you are asking for )..
These progressive stages lead to the ultimate goal...Prema...
9. prema - Direct involvement internally in the eternal lila while developing the first stages of prema..
hence, i hope i could answer your question a little better...still there are many more like Ekadasha bhavas...of a soul..in eternal goloka or vaikuntha systems in different rasas..its in Goloka...as per visvanatha chakravarthi's vastu ( dont mistake for vaastu) siddhi...bhaktivinoda thakura's modifications of the book by Dhyanachandra goswami's smarana paddhati...
1. Naama ( eternal name of the gopi)
2. Roopa ( complexion)
3. vayas ( eternal age - dont getconfused with the mundane age).
4. vesa ( gopi deha - blue garments with multicolored ornaments).
5. sambandha - relationship with radhakrsna.
6. yutha - manjari is always near to sri radha.
7. Aajna - taking the order of her group leader sakhi and serving radharani.
8. Seva - its divided into 2 types. (i) obeying all orders (ii) particular service like fanning with a chamara etc...
9. parakaastha - always meditating at heart that...iam a nitya sakhi...
10. paalyadaasi - the sadhaka manjari remains always under the shelter of a nitya sakhi who maintains her in every respect.
11. Nivaasa - the delightful places such as vamsivata, vraja which are the sites of radhakrsna pastimes are the dwelling places of siddha deha.
This 11 bhavas is directly intended for those who desire to be manjaris in goloka especially under sri rupa manjari and lalita...svarupa damodara goswami in gaura lila is lalitha sakhi in vraja lila..
Bhaktivinoda thakura in gaura lila is kamala manjari.
Bhaktisiddhanta saraswati thakura is nayana mani manjari..etc...
yours humble servant
Hare Krishna,
Very Nice Chirag ji. It is our duty to encourage each other in Krishna consciousness. I agree with your views "serve Krishna with love". God is pleased with love itself.
Hare Krishna
Dear friend,
Its only by the glories of the Lord that the love for Krishna has emerged in your heart. He is ever-merciful.
Dont worry about anything. Please try the path of S-U-R-R-E-N-D-E-R to Krishnaji... surrender to Him...let Him decide what is good for you... He will show you the path how to reach him.
Keep praying to him that 'I never forget you, My Lord' . Chant the MahaMantra from your heart.
Look into his face or feet, beg silently to show you the correct path of devotion. Beg for more devotion within you. Keep meditating on the Lord as much as you can, wherever you are.
Tell the Lord in your mind that we are helpless we do not know anything, we donot have the strength of anything except Him. A baby cries before his mother helplessly for help - that anxiously you plead to Lord to help you with the path to reach him.
Surrender totally, dont keep any strength/responsibility on yourself. Like there are people who begs for feeling towards the Lord himself. The Lord will guide you - the Lord will show mercy on you - dont let anything distract you. Keep praying that 'I never forget you my Lord'.
Talk less, Talk politely to others, Dont plan to harm others - what else is needed to please the Lord? Trust me these are not easy things.
And believe me, its only by the grace of the Lord that you have feelings for Him.
Hare Krsna Prabhuji,
PAMHO.
So you haev already decided that you will go to Goloka and are trying to decide your role in Goloka!!!!
What we know about devotion and pure devotion is anyabhilashita sunyam - without any desire other than to serve the lord.
Desire to serve in the capacity of a gopa and playing with Him is also a desire. I am sorry, when I read your post, it appeared as if some movie casting is going on and you are trying to cast yourself as the best man or the sidekick of the hero. What we know from experts and pure devotees is that this is not devotion.
Instead of speculating about whether we are going to reach Goloka or any other spiritual planet and choosing our role there, we should concentrate on our sadhana in the material world and strive to attain pure love of Godhead.
That is my humble opinion.
Haribol,
Your servant,
Rashmi
Hare Krishna Mataji,
PAMHO
Mataji m just the beginner, and the atmosphere which I came from is totally different... u know what I purchased bhagad gita and my parents hide it from me, they think m going in wrong direction.. for them to me should b to get plenty of money, job, marriage and child is every thing.. they don't like these stuffs.. I cant even meditate using beads also .... still m trying my level best to be a servant of lord Krishna... this is not a end of my life.. m trying my best......and u r saying m trying to be a best man.... mataji there u go wrong.. I was asking for help and direction from the advance devotees like u.... The question I meant was " In Golok we all had denied to serve god that's y we are in this world but if our role is already fixed there then what actually is that role" ....sorry for the question I posted was in a kiddish way, and I wont post here again unless and until in come in contact with the ADVANCE questions for the ADVANCE devotees and in a advance way .. I just tried to be open.... albeit I cannot ask these questions from my family and friends.. u people were the hope for me... anyhow mataji I understood everything from ur reply.
Hare Krishna
God Bless
Hare KRsna Prabhuji,
PAMHO.
My intention was not to hurt you. Let me tell you a story - I heard of 2 ISKCON devotees who were in Vrindavan and somehow they found out about some guru or babaji who can tell them what they are in the spiritual world. They were so enamoured by that they naturally started to seek his guidance. After some years,our ISKCON devotees found them both (in separate ocassions), one was filling gas in a petrol pump, married, had child and related responsibilities and depressed; the other was walking in a strange manner. On inquiry, it was found that he has been told that in the spiritual world, he is a peacock, therefore in human body, he is attempting to walk like a peacock. I remembered that story - now if anyone asks me for a reference, I cannot give. Heard it in a lecture. Therefore, I wanted to save you from these pitfalls.
To answer the question you wanted to ask, which you have clarified here - what I know is that suppose we came from spiritual planet A. It is not necessary that we have to go back to Spiritual Planet A and in the same role. It is only on earth and in the human form of life that we can do sadhana and go back as per our current sadhana. We may have come from A, but can go back to B.
Logically speaking, the spiritual planets are 2/3rd of the material universe, therefore it is HUGE. They are again divided into Vaikuntha and Goloka planets. All of us could not have come from Goloka planet - some would have come from other planets - maybe vaikuntha planets. Then if its possible to find out where we came from and that we will get back the same role, then why we shoudl strive for Goloka at all? We should simply find out our spiritual address, do enough devotion to go back there, why and how can we aim for Goloka?
Another thing I think relevant to mention is that it is not possible to transfer / promote/ elevate from Vaikuntha planets to Goloka planets from the spiritual world itself. Suppose we are in Vaikuntha and we want to go to Goloka, we have to come to the material world, eventually get human form of life, do sadhana and then go back to goloka planet, that too, only if the lord desires. Vaikuntha planets have santa and dasya rasa, whereas Goloka has vatsalya, madhurya and sakhya rasa.
My intention is not to hurt you at all, I repeat. And dont worry about your language. Krsna is sitting in your heart, He knows what you want to convey, He is looking at the sincerity of your heart, not your language. You are trying to please Krsna, I am too insignificant in comparison to even matter.
Just another thought - maybe you shoudl take some congregation devotees and full time grihasta devotees to your house and introduce to your family. Please take care to take some of the materially richer devotees and tell your parents about them. This will allay their fears that you will be penniless, familyless, careerless when you come to this path.
Take care,
Haribol,
Your servant,
Rashmi
Hare Krishna rashmi mataji,
I really appreciate all your answers to the wide variety of topics that devotees come up with but this is the first time I think I disagree with you on one point.i.e your statement "All of us could not have come from Goloka planet".
I suppose each and every living entity has some role or other to play in the goloka.Sure enough there are innumerable vaikuntha planets populated by living entities too.
What I am trying to say is like this:Lord shiva has his separate spiritual planet but at the same time he also plays the role of guardian girl in the rasa leela.Here I am not trying to equate Vishnu(shiva) tattva with jiva tattva.
Hare KRsna Prabhuji,
PAMHO.
I was referring to what I have heard in lectures - HH Bhakti Charu Maharaj had mentioned in one Sunday feast lecture in Kolkata this part - it is not possible to transfer / promote/ elevate from Vaikuntha planets to Goloka planets from the spiritual world itself. Suppose we are in Vaikuntha and we want to go to Goloka, we have to come to the material world, eventually get human form of life, do sadhana and then go back to goloka planet, that too, only if the lord desires.
I have heard lectures of HH Bhanu Swamy Maharaj in numerous morning Bhagawatam class in Chennai this part - Vaikuntha planets have santa and dasya rasa, whereas Goloka has vatsalya, madhurya and sakhya rasa.
Putting these two together, I wrote that para - not only it is my conclusion, I had got it verified also in one class. See, if we have to go back to being blade of grass (say), then what is the fun? Maybe we were blade of grass last time, this time we will be a peacock (say). There are exceptions of course - Jay and Vijay were cursed, so they came to the material world and went back to being Jay and Vijay only. That does not mean that the same Jay and Vijay will only be cursed every day/ chaturyuga.
See, none of us have any idea about spiritual worlds. Like Zola Preetam Prabhuji said, the best reference we have is Brahma Samhita.
Haribol,
Your servant,
Rashmi
Fair enough..
All clear :-)
Hare Krishna Prabhuji, PAMHO,
Rashmi Mataji has very rightly pointed out quality of a pure Devotee and our duties. your kind attention is invited to few prayers given below:
चैतन्य महाप्रभु की प्रार्थना: मै तो जन्म जन्मान्तर आपकी अहैतुकी भक्ति की कामना करता हूँ | हे महाराज नन्द के पुत्र, कृष्ण! मैं आपका नित्य सेवक हूँ, फिर भी मैं जन्म-मृत्यु के सागर में गिर गया हूँ | कृपया मुझे इस मृत्यु सागर से उठा लें और अपने चरण-कमलों में धूलिकण के रूप में स्थान दे दें |
ब्रह्माजी की प्रार्थना: हे प्रभु, यह मेरा अहोभाग्य होगा कि इसी जीवन में ब्रह्मा के रूप में या दूसरे जीवन में जहाँ कहीं भी जन्म लूँ चाहे पशु योनी में ही सही, मेरी गणना आपके भक्तों में हो और मैं आपके चरण-कमलों की सेवा में लग सकूँ (SB.10.14.30) |
प्रह्लाद महाराज की प्रार्थना: हे भगवान, मेरी प्रार्थना है कि आप मुझे अपने शुद्ध भक्त की संगति में रखें और निष्ठावान दास के रूप में उनकी सेवा करने दें (SB.7.9.24) | हे सर्वश्रेष्ठ वरदाता स्वामी, यदि आप मुझे कोई वांछित वर देना चाहते हैं तो मेरी आप से प्रार्थना है कि मेरे हृदय में किसी प्रकार की कामनाए न रहें (SB.7.10.6-7) |
Hare Krishna,
your servant
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