Hare Krishna,
Please assist to resolve my query.
It is said that souls came to material world because they used their freewill to enjoy seperately from Krishna & all souls were originally part of the spiritual world.
Doubt 1: Since all souls were originally part of spiritual world and it is said that souls are full in knowledge in spiritual world then why did we chose to enjoy seperately.
Doubt 2: Krishna says that once who goes to his abode does not fall down to material world and I have no doubt in that. But, isn't this contradicting since we were already in his abode and fell down.
Replies
I got answer which is that we were never in spiritual world but came in existence in the causal ocean from Karanodakshayi Vishnu and we made a choice to associate with material energy.
We have not fallen down from spiritual world!!!!
Hari bol Yajnavalkya Dasa prabhu & Advaita Dey prabhu!!!
Hare Krsna
Its good to see you settled with some understanding. At some point u'll realize that this understanding is 180 degrees against the basic foundational premise of entire Bhagavad Gita given in BG 2.20 that living being does not come into existence at all, let alone coming from causal ocean.
Hare Krsna
Brahma Samhita 5.11
sahasrākṣaḥ sahasra-pāt
sahasra-bāhur viśvātmā
sahasrāṁśaḥ sahasra-sūḥ
Hare Krsna
Souls are appeared via maha vishnu and not created.
What does this mean ? Where were the souls before appearing via Maha vishnu.
I have seen that link. There is no doubt that all conditioned souls did not fall from Goloka Vrindavana.
But there isn't enough reference that origin of jiva in causal ocean or emanated from Maha vishnu. Here is why -
bhūta-grāmaḥ sa evāyaṁ
bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate
rātry-āgame ’vaśaḥ pārtha
prabhavaty ahar-āgame
Translation : Again and again, when Brahmā’s day arrives, all living entities come into being, and with the arrival of Brahmā’s night they are helplessly annihilated.
Purport : The less intelligent, who try to remain within this material world, may be elevated to higher planets and then again must come down to this planet earth. During the daytime of Brahmā they can exhibit their activities on higher and lower planets within this material world, but at the coming of Brahmā’s night they are all annihilated. In the day they receive various bodies for material activities, and at night they no longer have bodies but remain compact in the body of Viṣṇu. Then again they are manifest at the arrival of Brahmā’s day. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate: during the day they become manifest, and at night they are annihilated again. Ultimately, when Brahmā’s life is finished, they are all annihilated and remain unmanifest for millions and millions of years. And when Brahmā is born again in another millennium they are again manifest. In this way they are captivated by the spell of the material world. But those intelligent persons who take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness use the human life fully in the devotional service of the Lord, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Thus they transfer themselves, even in this life, to the spiritual planet of Kṛṣṇa and become eternally blissful there, not being subject to such rebirths. (BG 8.19)
In the above translation & purport Srila Prabhupada clearly describes the phenomenon of how the conditioned living entities enter the body of vishnu at time of annihilation & again manifest from Vishnu when cosmic manifestation starts. It is a routine cyclical affair, although the time period of cycle is gigantically huge. Nonetheless it is cyclical.
The book -Origin of conditioned souls given in the link says that the jiva (after resting in body of Visnu) manifests in the cosmic creation from maha visnu into the causal ocean. That is true. But this kind of manifestation from maha visnu has been happening innumerable times cyclically.
This is similar to a taxi that roams all over the city during day and is parked at night in parking lot. The taxi has been doing it for infinite time. At beginning of every day, car starts from parking lot. But that doesn't automatically mean that parking lot is origin of taxi.
Visnu or Narayana is the resting place of all baddha jiva. But that in itself is not evidence that Visnu/causal ocean is the ultimate origin.
There is conclusive reference that origin of conditioned jiva is in marginal sphere. But I have not come across conclusive reference that marginal sphere is same as causal ocean. I haven't read the book thoroughly yet (I will) , but if there is such a reference I would be happy to know.
Thank you for the book link.
Hare Krsna
Yes, so we get an understanding that we were never in spiritual world, & we marginal energies chose material world because of our sense gratification propensity. Krsna & his associates comes in the material world to make us understand this basic principle so that we can love him & go to spiritual world :)
Hari Bol
I saw the back to godhead video too but it does not answer my question which is that we in spiritual world were also sat-cit-anand & then how can we have a desire to be equal to krishna or serve ourselves; this highlights jealousy which is not in spiritual world.
Also, there is nothing like eternally-material-soul; if that were the case then srila prabhupada would not have used the word BACK in back to godhead. Right?
So, my question stands very strong. Please have mercy
Hare Krsna
It is well known that the question stands strong. But the answer is stronger. It isn't the answer, its the realization of it.
Hare Krsna
sorry, I did not get what you mean?
Right.... also it is normal to aspire to be somewhat independent from parents...
Hare Krishna
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