Hare Krishna
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada
Dandwat Pranam
Dear Devotees
All Vaishnav acharyas say that Lord Shiva is greatest Vaishnava but then why do some Shaivites say that Lord Vishnu sleeps holding the Shiv Linga and why do most Lord Hari temples have Shiv Ling and not Shiva temples have Shaligram. In one story it is also said that Lord Vishnu and Lord Brahma couldn't find the end of the Jyotiswaroop(tunnel of light) formed by Lord Shiva and who is Sharabha avatar and why is Lord Vishnu and Lord Shiva considered almost same when Lord Shiva came from anger of Lord Brahma
Pls satisfy my curiosity and enlighten me
Your servant
Dandwat Pranam
Radha Radha
Haribol
Replies
Bharat prabhu g has very elegantly answered your question and there is nothing more to add to it.
I have added this reply only to prick you into doing some homework.
Why don't you atleast finish BG and SB from start to end and then come back here?
Believe me this is a very sound advice and not a condescending one.
I look at it historically and archaeologically,
As you know, almost all priests caste are Advaita, Vaishnav priests are very less, perhaps not even 1%, there is only one sub-caste of priests which is Vaishnav, that is Iyengar. Even today, in the temples under their control, Vishnu is seen in his original form with his hand not on the Shivalinga but on his head.
After the 8th century (i.e. after Adi Shankaracharya,) almost all the priest castes converted to Advaita. That is why many important Vishnu temples are still in their possession.
There are many temples where earlier the worship method was according to pancharatra Agamas but now it is according to Shankaracharya.
The chief priest of Padmanabha Swamy temple is also Advaita and comes from Shankaracharya Math, so he will definitely do this. They like to worship Vishnu in that form only.
But this is not the case in the world's largest operating temple, Sri Ranganathswamy Temple located at Srirangam in Tiruchirappalli.
Look below this 1500 years old (ie 4th or 5th century) Vishnu idol, it is not like that here.
4th century Vishnu idol,
Hare Krsna
Even today, in the temples under their control, Vishnu is seen in his original form with his hand not on the Shivalinga but on his head.
The form of Lord Vishnu does not depend on which group of priest worship/ control the worship. Most forms of Vishnu do not have Shiva linga. And it is perfectly alright.
After the 8th century (i.e. after Adi Shankaracharya,) almost all the priest castes converted to Advaita. That is why many important Vishnu temples are still in their possession.
Assuming what has been mentioned is true, there is nothing wrong with it. We have to understand the history behind it. Before Sripada Adi Shankaracarya, the wholeof India was under Buddhist religion which is against vedas, vedic practices. It was the great Sripada Adi Shankaracarya who actually reintroduced Vedic practices. And whatever practices Sripada Adi Shankaracarya introduced, it is bonafide and it is from the vedas. Now the vedas are vast & within Vedas there are many types of practices/Vidhi. Pancaratra is also one of them.
But this is not the case in the world's largest operating temple, Sri Ranganathswamy Temple located at Srirangam in Tiruchirappalli.
Yes, This is due to the reformations by Sripada Ramanujacarya. Sripada Ramanujacarya & Sripada Madhwacarya reintroduced pancaratra vidhi of worshipping the deities.
Look below this 1500 years old (ie 4th or 5th century) Vishnu idol, it is not like that here.
Ranganatha Swami deity never has Shiva Linga.
Hare Krsna
The form of Lord Vishnu does not depend on which group of priest worship/ control the worship. Most forms of Vishnu do not have Shiva linga. And it is perfectly alright.
It seems that you didn't understand my answer, This question could be answered in two ways, one is from pauranik facts, and the other is archaeologically authentic evidence, , I responded according to archaeologically authentic evidence. So I ask you, if you have such an ancient idol (before 8th century) as the questioners are telling (Lord Vishnu sleeps holding the Shiv Linga) , then show me, I also want to see. Anyway, according to pauranik facts, there is also no such evidence in which Vishnu was in that posture (Vishnu sleeps holding the Shiv Linga) , is there any pauranik evidence?Is there any idol ?
Before Sripada Adi Shankaracarya, the wholeof India was under Buddhist religion which is against vedas, vedic practices. It was the great Sripada Adi Shankaracarya who actually reintroduced Vedic practices.
It is not historically accurate to say this.
There were many reasons for the decline of Buddhism, not just one, but it can be said that by the end of the 7th century, Buddhism was moving towards decline.
Shankaracharya was not the only reason for the decline of Buddhism in India, rather he filled the vacuum left by Buddhism, so it is not fair to blame or give credit to Shankaracharya for eliminating any other religion from India. Although most of his religious debates were with Vaishnavas, today's Advaita supporters, followers of Shankaracharya, can be seen day and night writing against Madhvacharya/Ramanujacharya and making false allegations.
And especially for your Prabhupada, they also keep abusing, abusing and making indecent allegations (I don't know whether this allegation is true or not).
there are many types of practices/Vidhi. Pancaratra is also one of them.
Yes, you are right there are many methods. for you it is 'One of many methods'. but this means a lot for Vaishnavas. Pancharatra is the method in which Vishnu is considered as the supreme God and worshiped. According to Shankaracharya, worshiping Vishnu in this way is non-Vedic.
Ranganatha Swami deity never has Shiva Linga.
Out of all the pictures I have given here, not a single picture is of Ranganath temple nor of Ramanujacharya period (10th century). All these are sculptures of the fourth and fifth centuries (except one). which were made in the mountains and caves during that period. In North India it is not known as Ranganatha.
Hare Krsna
So I ask you, if you have such an ancient idol then show me, I also want to see, is there any pauranik evidence?Is there any idol ??
This has already been answered. I have even posted picture of Sri Ananta Padmanabha Swamy at . Thiruananthapuram, Kerala.
And especially for your Prabhupada, they also keep abusing, abusing and making indecent allegations
That is the nature of degraged people in Kaliyuga.There are always people who are ignorant and abusive. There are even now and they will be present even in future.
According to Shankaracharya, worshiping Vishnu in this way is non-Vedic.
Anyone can consider anything as they whatever want. It doesn't matter to the people who are actually doing the worship. Will it make any difference to the devotees who are worshipping correctly in Udupi or in Sriramnagm, or in any of the Iskcon temples worldwide ?
Hare Krsna
Hare Krsna
Why do some Shaivites say that Lord Vishnu sleeps holding the Shiv Linga ?
Lord Sri Padmanabha Swamy (manifestation of Garbhodakasayi Vishnu) rests His right hand on Shiva Linga while laying down on Sri Ananta Shesha with Lord Brahma manifesting from His navel. Putting right hand on top of someone is considered a gesture of love & affection. To me this one deity of Lord Sri Ananta Padmanabha Swamy is a most amazing proclamation that Lord Sri Vishnu is the loving master of Sri Ananta Shesha, Lord Shiva and Lord Brahma.
Why do most Lord Hari temples have Shiv Ling ?
Lord Hari is the master of all. In the temple of Lord Hari, the devotees worship Sri Hari and make the offerings unto Him. All the demigods desire the prasada of Sri Hari. Lord Sri Hari shares whatever offerings He gets from His devotees with the demigods. Lord Shiva being the topmost vaishnava gets the prasada of Sri Hari. Even other demigods/devotees like Ganesha, etc also get the offerings.
There is a nice story about this in Srimad Bhagavatam 4th Canto. There was a king named Anga. He arranged for performing Ashvamedha sacrifice. But despite everything being perfect the various demigods were not accepting the offerings in the sacrifice. So the sages who were performing the sacrifice advised King Anga to invite the Supreme Personality of Godhead Lord Sri Vishnu by offering oblations to Sri Vishnu. When Lord Vishnu is pleased and accepts the offerings, all the other demigods will also come along with Lord Vishnu and accept their share of offering. So the king followed their advice and the demigods came along with Vishnu and accepted their offerings.
In TOVP in Mayapur, in there is separate temple for Lord Narasimha. And there are also separate deities of Lord Brahma, Shiva and other demigods , I think total of 12 demigods. All these demigods will also get offerings and worship after the worship of Lord Narasimha.
and not Shiva temples have Shaligram ?
This is not completely accurate. There are some Shiva temples where Lord Vishnu deity or Saligrama is present.
Lord Vishnu and Lord Brahma couldn't find the end of the Jyotiswaroop(tunnel of light) formed by Lord Shiva
Yes, this story is from Shiva Purana. But this story shows how Lord Brahma was susceptible to untruthfulness in order to prove superiority over Lord Vishnu. Lord Vishnu humbly accepts that Lord Brahma is greater and worships Lord Brahma. Lord Shiva is greatly angered and orders for killing of Lord Brahma, but Lord Vishnu pacifies Lord Shiva. Lord Shiva curses Lord Brahma for the same. Lord Shiva actually glorifies Lord Vishnu for truthfully accepting defeat of not being able to find the end of the Jyotirlinga. This does not necessarily mean Lord Shiva is superior to Lord Vishnu. It only brings about the mutual affection between Lord Vishnu and Lord Shiva.
Also most people don't know what that Jyotistambha actually is. That Jyotistambha is an impersonal manifestation of Supreme Brahman. The supreme Brahman is undoubtedly unlimited.
Lord Vishnu and Lord Shiva considered almost same when Lord Shiva came from anger of Lord Brahma ?
There are various manifestations of Lord Shiva and Lord Vishnu. Generally when we say lord Shiva it refers to Lord Sadashiva, who is eternal and original manifestation of Shambhu tattva, whose abode is Sadashiva loka eternally situated beyond the material universe in Brahmajyoti. When we refer to Lord Vishnu, generally it is referred to Kshirodakasayi Vishnu or Paramatma within the heart of all living entities. Sometimes it may refer to Garbhodakasayi Vishnu also. In any case both Kshirodakasayi Vishnu & Garbhodakasayi Vishnu are situated within the material universe.
The Shiva that was generated from anger of Brahma is not lord Sadashiva, but it is Rudra.
dhiyā nigṛhyamāṇo ’pi
bhruvor madhyāt prajāpateḥ
sadyo ’jāyata tan-manyuḥ
kumāro nīla-lohitaḥ
Although he tried to curb his anger, it came out from between his eyebrows, and a child mixed blue and red was immediately generated.(SB 3.12.7)
yad arodīḥ sura-śreṣṭha
sodvega iva bālakaḥ
tatas tvām abhidhāsyanti
nāmnā rudra iti prajāḥ
Thereafter Brahmā said: O chief of the demigods, you shall be called by the name Rudra by all people because you have so anxiously cried. (SB 3.12.10)
Rudra is also manifestation of Shiva, but it is within the material universe for the function of destruction of the universe.
Lord Sada Shiva and Lord Vishnu are not 100% the same. They both are different tattvas. Lord Shiva belongs to Shambhu tattva having 55 qualities, where as Lord Vishnu belongs to Vishnu tattva having 60 qualities. Lord Brahma belongs to jiva tattva having 50 qualities.
The oneness and difference between Lord Shiva and Lord Vishnu is beautifully narrated by Lord Brahma as follows.
kṣīraṁ yathā dadhi vikāra-viśeṣa-yogāt
sañjāyate na hi tataḥ pṛthag asti hetoḥ
yaḥ śambhutām api tathā samupaiti kāryād
govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
Just as milk is transformed into curd by the action of acids, but yet the effect curd is neither same as, nor different from, its cause, viz., milk, so I adore the primeval Lord Govinda of whom the state of Śambhu is a transformation for the performance of the work of destruction.( Brahma Samhita 5.45)
Curd can also be considered a form of milk, since curd comes from milk. But the curd is different from milk because curd cannot become milk. Similarly lord Sadashiva can be considered a manifestation of Lord Vishnu since from tattva point of view the origin of Lord Sadashiva is Lord Vishnu. But Lord Shiva is different from Lord Vishnu because Lord Shiva cannot become lord Visnhu.
Hare Krsna
Hare Krishna
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada
Dandwat Pranam
Lord Vishnu and Lord Brahma couldn't find the end of the Jyotiswaroop(tunnel of light) formed by Lord Shiva
Yes, this story is from Shiva Purana. But this story shows how Lord Brahma was susceptible to untruthfulness in order to prove superiority over Lord Vishnu. Lord Vishnu humbly accepts that Lord Brahma is greater and worships Lord Brahma. Lord Shiva is greatly angered and orders for killing of Lord Brahma, but Lord Vishnu pacifies Lord Shiva. Lord Shiva curses Lord Brahma for the same. Lord Shiva actually glorifies Lord Vishnu for truthfully accepting defeat of not being able to find the end of the Jyotirlinga. This does not necessarily mean Lord Shiva is superior to Lord Vishnu. It only brings about the mutual affection between Lord Vishnu and Lord Shiva.
Also most people don't know what that Jyotistambha actually is. That Jyotistambha is an impersonal manifestation of Supreme Brahman. The supreme Brahman is
Prabhuji but then why is it told that Lord Vishnu instead of humbly accepting Lord Brahma fought with each other before Lord Shiva intervened also what was the Jyoti stambh was it Lord Shiva or Lord Krishna
pls enlighten me
Haribol
Hare Krsna
Then why is it told that Lord Vishnu instead of humbly accepting Lord Brahma fought with each other before Lord Shiva intervened.
Lord Vishnu was never trying to prove that He is superior. We need to understand the complete story tounderstand this.
As per Shiva Purana lord Brahma visits Vaikuntha and finds that lord Vishnu is absorbed in Yoga Nidra. Because of this lord Vishnu does not receive or welcome lord Brahma immediately. Lord Brahma then wakes up lord Vishnu. Upon waking up lord Vishnu welcomes lord Brahma. But lord Brahma feels offended and verbally insults lord Vishnu saying that lord Vishnu has not welcomed a superior guest. Then lord Vishnu says you are born of me, how is it that you are superior ?
Lord Vishnu was not explicitly asserting that He is superior to Brahma. But lord Vishnu only refused to accept supremacy of Brahma over Himself. But later on when lord Brahma says that he found the end of jyotistambha, lord Vishnu gladly accepts that lord Brahma is superior.
The battle was fought because of lord Vishnu not accepting lord Brahma's supremacy. In this whole story it is only lord Vishnu who accepts lord Brahma as greater than Himself and also lord Shiva as greater than Himself. This is the topmost quality of the Supremepersonality of Godhead lord Vishnu.
What was the Jyoti stambh was it Lord Shiva or Lord Krishna ?
It is the impersonal manifestation of the Supreme Brahman. It is not easy to completely understand this concept. But it is very critical to understand this concept. We cannot exclusively attribute any one personal form (of any Vishnu tattva) to the impersonal Supreme Brahman. There are infinite personal forms of Supreme Brahman. And each form (Vishnu Tattva) of Supreme Brahman is Supreme Personality of godhead. The Supreme Brahman has three category of manifestations as given in Srimad Bhagavatam.
vadanti tat tattva-vidas
tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam
brahmeti paramātmeti
bhagavān iti śabdyate
Translation : Learned transcendentalists who know the Absolute Truth call this nondual substance Brahman, Paramātmā or Bhagavān.
Purport : Bhagavān, or the Personality of Godhead, is the last word of the Absolute Truth. Paramātmā is the partial representation of the Personality of Godhead, and impersonal Brahman is the glowing effulgence of the Personality of Godhead. Less intelligent students of either of the above schools sometimes argue in favor of their own respective realization, but those who are perfect seers of the Absolute Truth know well that the above three features of the one Absolute Truth are different perspective views seen from different angles of vision. ( SB 1.2.11).
I am really sorry if the above has created more confusion.
Hare Krsna