Do ISKCON disciples consider themselves as Hindus? Is it true that even the Hindus joining ISKCON regard themselves more as ISKCON disciples that being Hindu.The founder Acharya is Srila Prabhupada ji who was a Hindu kayasth man. Everyone following his ideals has to confess to be a Hindu.Hare Krishna... Shri Radhe Krishna Sarvada Vijayate...
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Yes, I am aware. To clarify, within the context of gross religious abuse, I meant the intention with which any one of these names are used. If the consciousness is to provoke others than its real essence is abused which is great offense in itself.
If I had made the impression of meaning entirely something else, I humbly apologize. Truly, the name is absolutely potent even if it used as mere labels to identify oneself or point out those they identify themselves with. My point was to convey the divide which sometimes is, unfortunately, a cause of further confusion among ourselves and among others on the matter of soul identification as opposed to body identification. By 'body identification' I meant both in literal sense of the body and as a metaphor for "exclusivism".
For example, "this devotee belongs to this group and this devotee belong to that group...therefore, this devotee is the real deal and this one is not."
Sometimes, especially the neophytes, are so caught up in this label consciousness rather than Krishna Consciousness that questions such as the Arjun Saxena has put forth here arise - "Is it true that even the Hindus joining ISKCON regard themselves more as ISKCON disciples that being Hindu?"...when in fact it is both yes and no. In that regard I used the Holy Names, Hare Krishna, just to convey the idea of label obsession among others Then again obsessing on the Holy Names - Hare Krishna even as labels is still great thing regardless but I hope you get my point. Let's just say I was trying to be fair on Mr. Saxena. That was my intention and not to write off the Holy Names as "just another label". If there are still any offensive elements on my humble attempt to answer Mr. Saxena's question, I humbly beg your pardon and will try to rectify that.
Hare Krishna!
*Dandavats*
Arjun Saxena > Ernesto ChongthamSeptember 16, 2019 at 8:50pm
What I inferred from here was that the labels of religions should not be Incorporated with the spiritual process.
Is this fine enough??
However I would say that this could be given to support slaying of animals in Islamic traditions, which is indeed prohibited by the Vedas, and which in turn could be supported by saying there had been many paigambars and one of them might had been Krishnachandra Ji Maharaj. Now they consider it a spiritual process. A true verse would be that Krishna in his Human Form in the Dvapar was a member of the Sanatan Clan, I am not going and neither trying to get deeper in Kurus and Vrinis, and being a disciple of Him , he being the Jagadguru, one has to follow the Sanatan Dharm, today known widely as Hinduism.
If you find in Ram the instinct of Krishna then you have to worship Lord Shiva as well , Shakti as well, you have to gain support of the Vedas to get into the in-depth meaning of the Bhagwad Geeta. You have to infer the purana and follow the sanatan tradition and hence call , call it to be a tag, yourself a Hindu. Hindu tags are not divisions, infact every devotee of Lord is a Hindu, it the very truth which Krishna called Arjun to be Kurunandan, Bharat vrishabh etc. So be rest assured even if you don't call yourselves as Hindu you are a Hindu in the very instinct of your soul.
Hare Krishna...
Not really. The problem with labels is that we are back to square one - body identification...Hindus, Buddhists, Christians...Shaktas, Vaishnavas, Gaudiya Mathas, Hare Krishnas...and so on which defeats the purpose of self realization. However, the change in consciousness where actual realization take over to finally see the truth about the soul takes millions of lifetimes....it doesn't happen overnight. One can argue that "even a single impure chanting of Hare Krishna Mahamantra can liberate a person" true but we continue to pollute ourselves in thoughts, speech and action at the next moment, either in pride, anger, doubt etc.
Therefore, to a certain extent, like a rehab, a soul is provided a replacement to satisfy his desire to belong to something within a spiritual group which is a billion times better than a mundane group. However, the problem starts when you get carried away, when a person mistake the letter for the substance...when a person pledge loyalty to the label "Hindu", "ISKCON", "RamKrishna Mission" etc. than to Krishna or His teachings Himself. In other words - fanaticism.
If you allow yourself you will see this problem anywhere, and also, if you look deeper it is neither the defining feature of the group but rather a naturally occurring level among the spiritual practitioners. There are those who are beginners, intermediate and the advanced and it is all defined by what's within (consciousness) than the external features such as the spiritual attire.
Most people encounter the neophyte (beginner) devotees of ISKCON and they, for some reason, hastily jump to conclusion...not just of ISKCON if you encounter a neophyte practitioner of any spiritual group they are all kind of touchy about whatever group they consider a part of. That's what you are confronted with.
Srila Prabhupada was a great and exceptional Vaishnava Acharya (super advanced devotee) and once a soul reached that stage, they have literally transcended the 4 varnas...they have become more brahmin than brahmin. Therefore, it would be an offense to consider Srila Prabhupada "a kayasth man".
In conclusion, just to entertain a fanatic Hindu an ISKCON devotee may declare himself/herself to be a Hindu (no big deal) but the Hindu fanatic has missed the point and the devotees would be fulfilling the fanatic's desire just like a desire tree (Kalpavriskha).
Hare Krsna
Do ISKCON disciples consider themselves as Hindus?
The founder of Krna consciousness movement is Lord Sri Krsna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. He is supreme lord and considered himselvef servant of servant of Sri Krsna
nāhaṁ vipro na ca nara-patir nāpi vaiśyo na śūdro
nāhaṁ varṇī na ca gṛha-patir no vanastho yatir vā
kintu prodyan-nikhila-paramānanda-pūrnāmṛtābdher
gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ
I am not a brāhmaṇa, I am not a kṣatriya, I am not a vaiśya or a śūdra. Nor am I a brahmacārī, a householder, a vānaprastha or a sannyāsī. I identify Myself only as the servant of the servant of the servant of the lotus feet of Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, the maintainer of the gopīs. He is like an ocean of nectar, and He is the cause of universal transcendental bliss. He is always existing with brilliance. (CC 13.80)
The true identity of soul is that we are eternal servant of Sri Krsna. All other identities are temporary. The goal is to realize this true identity.
The founder Acharya is Srila Prabhupada ji who was a Hindu kayasth man.
The founder Acarya of Iskcon is a soul descended from spiritual world as predicited by Srila Bhaktivinod Thakur just to deliver the fallen conditioned souls of kali yuga. Which family, state he appeared should not matter. WHat should matter is the message and the process he has highlighted.
Krsna consciousness movement is not exclusive for human beings what to speak of Hindus. Lord Chaitanya gave Love of Krsna even to animals. Even Lord Rama gave service to animals. Ravana was for that matter born in Brahmin family. We should focus on the true unchanging eternal aspects of spirituality rather than racial, political, bodily identities. This is first message of Sri Krsna in BG - You are not the body, you are soul.
Having said that followers of Iskcon do not deviate from the principles of Sanatana Dharma. Krsna consciousness is the topmost level goal of Daivi Varnashrama dharma which is the system under Sanatana Dharma or what British called Hinduism
Hare Krishna,
The people who lived in Hindustaan were called Indus or Hindus by the Arabs and persians..
The word hindu comes from the geographical location of the subcontinent.
But those who practice a dharma which is eternal and which is coming from time immemorial that dharma is now a days popularly called as Hindusim.. but bascially it should be called Sanathana dharma.
sanātana-dharma does not refer to any sectarian process of religion. It is the eternal function of the eternal living entities in relationship with the eternal Supreme Lord. Sanātana-dharma refers, as stated previously, to the eternal occupation of the living entity.
All iskcon followers consider themselves to be Sanathana dharma followers.
any person regardless of any caste, creed, religion or nation when they follow the principles laid by Archarya Parampara and after taking initiation from a guru... becomes a Vaishnava.
By birth one maybe a shudra also but once he takes shelter of Lord Sri Krishna and follows the 4 regulative principles then he is called a Vaishnava.
Srila Prabhupada ji was a Vaishnava. All those following him will be called Disciples of Srila Prabhupada ji and all those following 4 regulative principles become naturally a Vaishnava.
being a hindu is not great.. following regulative principles and being a Vaishnava is the highest state.
Anyone can be called a hindu.. who is born in India and who are praying to hindu God and goddesses.
But a Vaishnava is separate classification --those who follow sanathana dharma along with 4 regulative principles strictly are only called Vaishnavas.
Santhan Dharma is way to lead a life following eternal natural laws laid by Supreme Lord Sri Krishna.
Doing rightful deeds and respecting elders and following rituals like deeparadhana, sandhya vandanam,, respecting gurus and teachers, brahmins and poor and sick treated all equally and doing the needful without getting attached to any material things... knowing that you are a soul and part and parcel of Sri Krishna. completing your nitya karma and vihita karma regularly are some of the rules and regulations to be listed under Sanathan dharma.
In addition to these above said a Vaishnava should follow 4 regulative principles 1. no gambling 2 no meat eating 3. no illicit sex 4. no intoxicants.
This is a perfect way of living as a human being. This is Vaishnavism. all those who follow this are called Vaishnavites.
Hare Krishna.
Arjun Saxena > GayatriSeptember 1, 2019 at 11:12am
Shri Shankaracharya in one of his lecture says that Iskcon is a way to ruin the Hindu society by calling on foreigners to give deeksha to Hindus and not letting these Hindus to call themselves as Hindus and rather as ISKCON devotees. How true is this? How will this be Confronted??
Just tell foreigners are souls - part and parcel of Krishna. How could an acharya missed this most basic, vital point is beyond me. If one is qualified by birth why do brahmin by birth children go through all the purification process all over again? Do son of a pilot fly the airplane with great mastery from day one? Humans with qualities which are conducive to spiritual practice are born everywhere. They are searched and then engaged in devotional practice.
On the contrary those so called "Hindus" who are full of pride are ruining the religion and those so called "brahmins" who are supposed to be free of pride are accusing ISKCON of challenging their traditional "authority". Spiritual merit is the essence.
Replies
"If we could have some taste of the sweetness of Pure Love of Godhead-- Hinduism itself would seem sinful."
For example, "this devotee belongs to this group and this devotee belong to that group...therefore, this devotee is the real deal and this one is not."
Sometimes, especially the neophytes, are so caught up in this label consciousness rather than Krishna Consciousness that questions such as the Arjun Saxena has put forth here arise - "Is it true that even the Hindus joining ISKCON regard themselves more as ISKCON disciples that being Hindu?"...when in fact it is both yes and no. In that regard I used the Holy Names, Hare Krishna, just to convey the idea of label obsession among others Then again obsessing on the Holy Names - Hare Krishna even as labels is still great thing regardless but I hope you get my point. Let's just say I was trying to be fair on Mr. Saxena. That was my intention and not to write off the Holy Names as "just another label". If there are still any offensive elements on my humble attempt to answer Mr. Saxena's question, I humbly beg your pardon and will try to rectify that.
Hare Krishna!
*Dandavats*
Is this fine enough??
However I would say that this could be given to support slaying of animals in Islamic traditions, which is indeed prohibited by the Vedas, and which in turn could be supported by saying there had been many paigambars and one of them might had been Krishnachandra Ji Maharaj. Now they consider it a spiritual process. A true verse would be that Krishna in his Human Form in the Dvapar was a member of the Sanatan Clan, I am not going and neither trying to get deeper in Kurus and Vrinis, and being a disciple of Him , he being the Jagadguru, one has to follow the Sanatan Dharm, today known widely as Hinduism.
If you find in Ram the instinct of Krishna then you have to worship Lord Shiva as well , Shakti as well, you have to gain support of the Vedas to get into the in-depth meaning of the Bhagwad Geeta. You have to infer the purana and follow the sanatan tradition and hence call , call it to be a tag, yourself a Hindu. Hindu tags are not divisions, infact every devotee of Lord is a Hindu, it the very truth which Krishna called Arjun to be Kurunandan, Bharat vrishabh etc. So be rest assured even if you don't call yourselves as Hindu you are a Hindu in the very instinct of your soul.
Hare Krishna...
Therefore, to a certain extent, like a rehab, a soul is provided a replacement to satisfy his desire to belong to something within a spiritual group which is a billion times better than a mundane group. However, the problem starts when you get carried away, when a person mistake the letter for the substance...when a person pledge loyalty to the label "Hindu", "ISKCON", "RamKrishna Mission" etc. than to Krishna or His teachings Himself. In other words - fanaticism.
If you allow yourself you will see this problem anywhere, and also, if you look deeper it is neither the defining feature of the group but rather a naturally occurring level among the spiritual practitioners. There are those who are beginners, intermediate and the advanced and it is all defined by what's within (consciousness) than the external features such as the spiritual attire.
Most people encounter the neophyte (beginner) devotees of ISKCON and they, for some reason, hastily jump to conclusion...not just of ISKCON if you encounter a neophyte practitioner of any spiritual group they are all kind of touchy about whatever group they consider a part of. That's what you are confronted with.
Srila Prabhupada was a great and exceptional Vaishnava Acharya (super advanced devotee) and once a soul reached that stage, they have literally transcended the 4 varnas...they have become more brahmin than brahmin. Therefore, it would be an offense to consider Srila Prabhupada "a kayasth man".
In conclusion, just to entertain a fanatic Hindu an ISKCON devotee may declare himself/herself to be a Hindu (no big deal) but the Hindu fanatic has missed the point and the devotees would be fulfilling the fanatic's desire just like a desire tree (Kalpavriskha).
Do ISKCON disciples consider themselves as Hindus?
The founder of Krna consciousness movement is Lord Sri Krsna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. He is supreme lord and considered himselvef servant of servant of Sri Krsna
nāhaṁ vipro na ca nara-patir nāpi vaiśyo na śūdro
nāhaṁ varṇī na ca gṛha-patir no vanastho yatir vā
kintu prodyan-nikhila-paramānanda-pūrnāmṛtābdher
gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ
I am not a brāhmaṇa, I am not a kṣatriya, I am not a vaiśya or a śūdra. Nor am I a brahmacārī, a householder, a vānaprastha or a sannyāsī. I identify Myself only as the servant of the servant of the servant of the lotus feet of Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, the maintainer of the gopīs. He is like an ocean of nectar, and He is the cause of universal transcendental bliss. He is always existing with brilliance. (CC 13.80)
The true identity of soul is that we are eternal servant of Sri Krsna. All other identities are temporary. The goal is to realize this true identity.
The founder Acharya is Srila Prabhupada ji who was a Hindu kayasth man.
The founder Acarya of Iskcon is a soul descended from spiritual world as predicited by Srila Bhaktivinod Thakur just to deliver the fallen conditioned souls of kali yuga. Which family, state he appeared should not matter. WHat should matter is the message and the process he has highlighted.
Krsna consciousness movement is not exclusive for human beings what to speak of Hindus. Lord Chaitanya gave Love of Krsna even to animals. Even Lord Rama gave service to animals. Ravana was for that matter born in Brahmin family. We should focus on the true unchanging eternal aspects of spirituality rather than racial, political, bodily identities. This is first message of Sri Krsna in BG - You are not the body, you are soul.
Having said that followers of Iskcon do not deviate from the principles of Sanatana Dharma. Krsna consciousness is the topmost level goal of Daivi Varnashrama dharma which is the system under Sanatana Dharma or what British called Hinduism
Hare Krsna
The people who lived in Hindustaan were called Indus or Hindus by the Arabs and persians..
The word hindu comes from the geographical location of the subcontinent.
But those who practice a dharma which is eternal and which is coming from time immemorial that dharma is now a days popularly called as Hindusim.. but bascially it should be called Sanathana dharma.
sanātana-dharma does not refer to any sectarian process of religion. It is the eternal function of the eternal living entities in relationship with the eternal Supreme Lord. Sanātana-dharma refers, as stated previously, to the eternal occupation of the living entity.
All iskcon followers consider themselves to be Sanathana dharma followers.
any person regardless of any caste, creed, religion or nation when they follow the principles laid by Archarya Parampara and after taking initiation from a guru... becomes a Vaishnava.
By birth one maybe a shudra also but once he takes shelter of Lord Sri Krishna and follows the 4 regulative principles then he is called a Vaishnava.
Srila Prabhupada ji was a Vaishnava. All those following him will be called Disciples of Srila Prabhupada ji and all those following 4 regulative principles become naturally a Vaishnava.
being a hindu is not great.. following regulative principles and being a Vaishnava is the highest state.
Anyone can be called a hindu.. who is born in India and who are praying to hindu God and goddesses.
But a Vaishnava is separate classification --those who follow sanathana dharma along with 4 regulative principles strictly are only called Vaishnavas.
Santhan Dharma is way to lead a life following eternal natural laws laid by Supreme Lord Sri Krishna.
Doing rightful deeds and respecting elders and following rituals like deeparadhana, sandhya vandanam,, respecting gurus and teachers, brahmins and poor and sick treated all equally and doing the needful without getting attached to any material things... knowing that you are a soul and part and parcel of Sri Krishna. completing your nitya karma and vihita karma regularly are some of the rules and regulations to be listed under Sanathan dharma.
In addition to these above said a Vaishnava should follow 4 regulative principles 1. no gambling 2 no meat eating 3. no illicit sex 4. no intoxicants.
This is a perfect way of living as a human being. This is Vaishnavism. all those who follow this are called Vaishnavites.
Hare Krishna.
On the contrary those so called "Hindus" who are full of pride are ruining the religion and those so called "brahmins" who are supposed to be free of pride are accusing ISKCON of challenging their traditional "authority". Spiritual merit is the essence.
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