Hare Krishna,
ŚB 6.4.9
अहस्ता हस्तयुक्तानां द्विपदां च चतुष्पद: ॥ ९ ॥
hy apadaḥ pāda-cāriṇām
ahastā hasta-yuktānāṁ
dvi-padāṁ ca catuṣ-padaḥ
By nature’s arrangement, fruits and flowers are considered the food of insects and birds; grass and other legless living entities are meant to be the food of four-legged animals like cows and buffalo; animals that cannot use their front legs as hands are meant to be the food of animals like tigers, which have claws; and four-legged animals like deer and goats, as well as food grains, are meant to be the food of human beings.
Then why it is a sin to eat meat ?
In God's design, one living being is the food of other living beings. Then how can we say He is compassionate ?
Lord Krishna never spoke on the topic of animal killing and meat eating. Nor did Lord Rama.
Moreover they hunted animals in the forest. ( May be Kshatriya Dharma ).
Lord Krishna silently watched, when arjuna hunted down many birds trying to escape during Khandava dahana.
Only devotees like Prabhupada , bhishma and narada showed compassion to animals.
It seems that devotees are more compassionate than Him.
I am wondering, when God himself is indifferent and silent, why meat eating should be a serious topic among devotees ?
Replies
Hare Krsna Prabhuji,
PAMHO.
Krsna has created the material world such that each planet is self sufficient. No loka has to borrow (say) air, or light or anything else from any other loka (planet for now). This is the rule - one living entity is food for another living entity. Typically the living entity which is food is the lower level of species and the predator living entity is the higher level of species. Goign by this logic, human being is the highest level of species. So what is the surprise if it is able to eat meat?
If you go beyond the translation and read the purport Srila Prabhupada explains that 4 legged animals like goat or deer have been mentioned in the shloka. His divine grace is vehement that it doesnt extend to cows.
Just to tell you, when a tiger or crocodile kills its prey for food, there is no karma accumulated to that living entity.
Karma gets accumulated only in the human form of life. This is because human beings are supposed to be having the highest consciousness. Therefore it has the choice and the sadhus/ devotees choose not to eat meat.
Regarding Kshatriyas eating, you have already answered. I dont need to elaborate.
Re Krsna watching when Arjuna is killing animals, again Kshatriya dharma.
Lord Krsna specifically mentioned patram pushpam phalam toyam, not only Bhagavad Gita (9.26), but also in Srimad Bhagawatam (10.81.4). So what more proof is required about what will please the lord? I am not aware of any other shloka which is repeated in both Gita and SB.
He is not indifferent. Maybe you need to study scriptures under a shiksha guru, to get the right perspective.
If Krsna had no compassion, then how guru parampara will have? From where their compassion will flow? That is why it is parampara, right? It flows from top. Including compassion, mercy.....the works
As you know, our scriptures are designed for 4 lakh species out of 84 lakh species. Naturally the level of consciousness is different in all. So it caters to entire humanity - as per the level of consciousness, different things are permitted. The purpose is to gradually elevate the living entity by making him follow the rules of his level of consciousness (very nicely set in varnashrama system) and gradually elevate to the next level. As you know, bhakti transcends all the levels. It is possible to take the elevator of bhakti and transcend all levels of consiousness, regardless of where we are.
I hope this explains.
Haribol,
Your servant,
Radha Rasamayi DD
Thank you Mathaji,
But I fail to understand, why is he not speaking directly that you sinful wretches, dont hurt the animals, dont eat meat..
Is it becoz he is afraid that people will question him " oh, if I give a big lecture on meat eating, people will start questioning me, Why you Krishna you are hunting that hapless deer and you are asking us to show compassion.."
Is that why he avoids to speak on this topic ?
But honest yudhistira is not afraid to speak though he ate loads of meat by massacring deer...He says
Yudhishthira said, 'Alas, those cruel men, who, discarding diverse kinds of food, covet only flesh, are really like great Rakshasas! Alas, they do not relish diverse kinds of cakes and diverse sorts of potherbs and various species of Khanda with juicy flavour so much as they do flesh! My understanding, for this reason, becomes stupefied in this matter...
His heart is melting with compassion after killing somany animals throughout vanavasa....
Did he ean, oh I am a great kshatriya, so I massacre deer...No sin attach to me...Sastras allowed it...
But you people, you don't eat meat bringing it from the sinful butchers
Bhishma said "It is seen that even those men who are possessed of learning and who seek to achieve the highest good in the form of Emancipation, are not free from the fear of death. What need there be said of those innocent and healthy creatures endued with love of life, when they are sought to be slain by sinful wretches subsisting by slaughter? "
What a great compassion ? What a great love for creatures ?
I want these soulful , heartmelting words from the supreme being....
Or is he thinking that these animals are suffering becoz of the past sinful activities . So why should I protect them ? If it is so, why should we even care about animal slaughter ?
One of our brothers said,God gives his opinions regarding mundane matters in some incarnations and in others he refrains from the mundane topics...
Now this great man feels that this topic is very mundane and unimportant...If so, why devotees often cry about compassion. Why do they even care about animals if it is unimportant....
"Is that why the verses from ramayana where lord rama eats meat were deleted from books " " Oh lord rama never ate meat, mamsa means flesh of the fruit...oh..wicked men mistranslated...these are the answers given by great swamijis and hinduthva vadis..why instead of telling the truth, they are hiding the things ? These fools want to protect hindutva by hiding the things instead of explaining sastra...
Hare Krsna Prabhu,
PAMHO.
Krsna's ways are mysterious. He says in indirect manner - that is pleasing to Him. Even in Bhagavad Gita, he tell Arjuna - Kaunteya Pratijanihi Na Me Bhakta Pranashyati - -- declare, O Kaunteya, that My devotee will never perish. He doesnt declare Himself.
It takes a lot of sadhana, devotion and surrender to understand His ways. His reasons are revealed only to the person He wants, when He wants. Thats why He is God na.
Is it becoz he is afraid that people will question him - this thought itself is blasphemous, laughable. If He is afraid, how He is God?
I want these soulful , heartmelting words from the supreme being....Meditate prabhu. There are enough verses and pastimes which show the lord's compassion. Concentrate on them.
Or is he thinking that these animals are suffering becoz of the past sinful activities . So why should I protect them ? If it is so, why should we even care about animal slaughter ? - Dont speculate. Not at all encouraged.
"Is that why the verses from ramayana where lord rama eats meat were deleted from books " " - this is not true. Not only Ram, there are texts to prove that even Jesus Christ was vegetarian.
My sincere advise to you is to not speculate so much. Give yourself time, work on your sadhana, meditate on concepts or points which are bothering you. Have faith, with time, all will be revealed to you.
The way you are questioning the lord's words and actions, it is as if you are trying to win an argument. Maybe that is not your approach, but it is appearing like this to someone like me who doesnt know you.
Haribol,
Your servant,
Radha Rasamayi DD
I have one more question...
Devotees like you say that " Krsna is so compaasionate . He arranged one living entity is food for another living entity ". I just failed to understand what kind of compassion is this ?
As our great devotee asked me, "
" Do you know anyone who will agree to be come meat ?
Just put yourself in the place of the person who is being killed. Would you agree to become meat ? "
I ask you what krishna is thinking about the living entities which were cursed to be the food of others...Why this greatly intelligent devotee is asking this question to me instead of asking the person who made such arrangement ?
I didn't say I like to eat meat..I will be the first one who would condemn and disapprove meat eating...
Becoz I put myselves in the place of those poor animals and imagine their pain...
I have seen meat eaters amongst People who will make a big cry even for the slightest injury they suffer..
These people often argue that God arranged meateating, siting some examples which I showed..
I only asked a question why is it sinful, if the supreme being arranged it so that I become fit to answer them?
People like us who condemn meat eating must be masters of such topic..Thats why we need to clarify all doubts..
Not even the slightest doubt must remain...
We must have thourough understanding of the sastra..Otherwise how will we answer the fools who argue that killing plants is same as killing animals
Hare KRsna Prabhu,
PAMHO.
" Krsna is so compaasionate . He arranged one living entity is food for another living entity ". I just failed to understand what kind of compassion is this ? Have you seen any animal who can consume plastic and digest it? No na. Consuming plastic is causing so many deaths of animals. So God's compassion is He created the world such that one living entity is food for another. By doing so, there is no waste in the eco system. It is a balanced eco system, where no great waste is being accumulated. Nature has its way of clearing the waste and cleansing herself. Isnt that a wonderful, thoughtful creation?
Imagine our jails, do we provide so much flora or fauna or self sufficient eco system to our jails? Can we provide? Think about it. You will get your answer.
As our great devotee asked me, "
" Do you know anyone who will agree to be come meat ?
Just put yourself in the place of the person who is being killed. Would you agree to become meat ? "
I ask you what krishna is thinking about the living entities which were cursed to be the food of others...Why this greatly intelligent devotee is asking this question to me instead of asking the person who made such arrangement ?
I replied to your post because I saw a fight brewing. My purpose was to give a satvik reply and calm both sides. I do not wish to be drawn into these squabbles.
Prabhu, since you are so knowledgeable, you would have read pranipatena pariprashnena sevaya.... - right? If you are asking any question, be prepared for any and every type of answer. It may not be agreeing with you, but why get into fight? If someone is answering your question, then that person can be assumed to be in a higher level than you, right? If yes, then can you not take a little pinch from him? If no, then why bother to reply at all? What is your purpose of asking these questions - seeking answers na. Is it that you are trying to prove your intellectual superiority in finding these queries and asking them here? If yes, we accept. If no, then be open to the answers you receive.
People like us who condemn meat eating must be masters of such topic..Thats why we need to clarify all doubts..
Not even the slightest doubt must remain...
We must have thorough understanding of the sastra..Otherwise how will we answer the fools who argue that killing plants is same as killing animals
To get the answer to this question, please refer to Perfect Questions and Perfect Answers book. Srila Prabhupada has covered it very nicely.
My experience with doubts related to spiritual subject matters is - regardless of how much anyone explains to us, it is REALISED knowledge. It has happened that I have understood something even after 20 years of being part of the movement, or faster - maybe in few months. Sprititual topics are not so easy to understand. It is not only logic that will give us the answer. It is a lot of sadhana, devotion, meditation, service to devotees and surrender to Srila Prabhupada and Krsna that will help.
Give yourself time prabhu. Try prabhu. Wait for the answers to be revealed to you. Then its like sunrise in the heart. The entire heart illuminates, the mind becomes free and you feel great. That time you dont feel on top of the world, you feel that you are at the lotus feet of Their Lordships.
I am not at all stopping you from asking. I am trying to refrain you from getting into fights, accepting the answers provided and meditating on them before asking again.
Haribol,
Your servant,
Radha Rasamayi DD
Hare Krsna
Then why it is a sin to eat meat ?
1. Do you know anyone who will agree to be come meat ? Just put yourself in the place of the person who is being killed.
2. Would you agree to become meat ?
3. If a person kills you and eats you, should he be punished or rewarded for killing ?
Please care to answer these 3 questions if you want me to answer the remaining of your questions.
Hare Krsna
If a person kills you and eats you, should he be punished or rewarded for killing ?
I ask you same question, You answer first..
Did I tell my opinion ?..I clearly quoted from sastra..i.e Bhagavatha revered by vaishnava devotees
wherein it is clearly stated "four-legged animals like deer and goats, as well as food grains, are meant to be the food of human beings. "
Referring to sastra, I asked when sastra allowed it, why is it sinful ?
Instead of trying to discuss the sastra you ask me
" Would you agree to become meat ? "
I ask you the same . Since you think you are a great devotee, you may answer, Oh I am a great devotee of Krishna,
I don't care if I become meat and eaten. I dont care if a person kills me and eats me "
But I am not such a great devotee like you. No one wants to get killed. I think even you, who is a great person.
You question the animals killed by Lord Rama, pandavas the great devotees and Lord krishna..
"Kings pursuing games of hunting in great forests, oh, Lakshmana, will be felling deer either for the sake of flesh, or just for the purpose of sporting archery. [3-43-31] "
"This comely Vaidehi will be sitting on that invaluable golden skin of that gem of a deer along with me. [3-43-35] "
"I think the skin of Kadali deer, or of Priyaki deer, or of Praveni deer, or as a matter of fact the skins of best breed of deer or sheep will not be match to the deerskin of this deer, insofar as the soft-touch is concerned. [3-43-36]"
Is there any purana in which there is no deer hunt ? both the Ramayana and mahabharatha begin with the deer hunt. Even the story of Shakuntala’s romance begins with King Dushyanta going on a deer hunt.
Pandu replied, 'O deer, kings behave in the matter of slaying animals of thy species exactly as they do in the matter of slaying foes. It behoveth thee not, therefore, to reprove me thus from ignorance. Animals of thy species are slain by open or covert means. This, indeed, is the practice of kings. Then why dost thou reprove me? Formerly, the Rishi Agastya, while engaged in the performance of a grand sacrifice, chased the deer, and devoted every deer in the forest unto the gods in general. Thou hast been slain, pursuant to the usage sanctioned by such precedent. Wherefore reprovest us then? For his especial sacrifices Agastya performed the homa with fat of the deer.'
Now will you dare Rishi Agastya to ask this question ?
Vaisampayana said, "These great warriors of the race of Bharata sojourned like immortals in the great forest of Kamyaka, employed in hunting.
the evil-minded Jayadratha, the king of Sindhu, Sauvira and other countries, said, 'I must see Draupadi.' And with six other men he entered that solitary hermitage, like a wolf entering the den of a lion. And he said unto Krishna, 'Hail to thee, excellent lady! Are thy husbands well and those, besides, whose prosperity thou always wishest.' Draupadi replied, 'Kunti's son king Yudhishthira of the race of Kuru, his brothers, myself, and all those of whom thou hast enquired of, are well. Do thou, O prince, accept this water for washing thy feet. Do thou also take this seat. I offer thee fifty animals for thy train's breakfast. Besides these, Yudhishthira himself, the son of Kunti, will give thee porcine deer and Nanku deer, and does, and antelopes, and Sarabhas, and rabbits, and Ruru deer, and bears, and Samvara deer and gayals and many other animals, besides wild boars and buffaloes and other animals of the quadruped tribe.
Now you ask the same question " Would you agree to become meat ? " to draupadi.
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