Do we (as spirit souls) age? Is there an age for the individual soul?
What is the age of our spiritual bodies?
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Do we (as spirit souls) age? Is there an age for the individual soul?
What is the age of our spiritual bodies?
You need to be a member of ISKCON Desire Tree | IDT to add comments!
Replies are closed for this discussion.
Replies
Sometimes we mistake other devotees to be ordinary human beings. Yes, including yourself, you are not an ordinary human being.
We just have to be super careful how we address each other.
You see No one is equal to Krishna or Above Krishna. So Krishna has a problem. He lacks a challenger. An equal that He can fight with or challenge in general.
Krishna however thinks that His Devote is greater than Him. Once Lord Narayana says that Lord Shiva, (who is chanting Krishna's Names with all His 5 heads) is dearer to Him than His own Life.
Krishna regards Lord Shiva higher than Himself. Krishna's attachment to His Devotees is beyond words.
A good way to understand the 10 most grave offenses is by reading Harinama Cintamani
Conversation with Haridas Thakore and Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu
http://www.jagadguruchrisbutler.com/sri-harinama-cintamani/index.php
or you can download a pdf by searching google for "Harinama Cintamani pdf"
Hare Krishna, dear Prakash Shivalkar, Prabhu.
Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. All glories to Guru-Maharaja.
Please, dear Prakash Prabhu, read this very carefully.
Dear Prakash Prabhu, you are a very nice devotee. You often help other devotees by answering their questions.Especially, you help me also a lot when my mind was wandering here and there like a fool. You can become a very nice humble devotee in the near future. I don't want to lose you and I am sure no other devotee would like to lose you from this side. We are devotees of Lord Krishna. We are the Yadu family in this kali-yuga. We are special humans, chosen by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu to serve Their Lordship SRI SRI RADHA KRISHNA. We are giving all the people in this world the right example how to live your life properly. We are representing our spiritual master and Srila Prabhupada by proper behavior. A devotee behavior. A perfect gentleman behavior.
So, what would they think if they see that devotees are behaving like this? What would ordinairy people think if they see how junior devotees are behaving towards senior devotee? What would your future Guru-Maharaja and Srila Prabhupada think about your behavior towards a senior devotee? Devotee behavior is realy very humble like a blade on the sand.
So, with your discussion about the age of the soul between you and Jagadatma Prabhu, you did a very big vaisnava-aparatha. Only by this one vaisnava-aparatha you became a very big soul-killer. You will fall down totally from your little bhakti you have. To be honest with you, I don't like and want that such a nice devotee like you, who is shining like a pure priceless gem, would fall down from his bhakti platform. No other devotee would like that also. And I am sure that the great Jagadatma Prabhu will not like it also, that you will fall down. Devotees are very rare, Prakash Prabhu. And I am sure that you do not want that others should behave towards you how you behaved to Jagadatma Prabhu.
So, my dear Prakash Prabhu, I am begging you very humbly on my knees to apolagise to Jagadatma Prabhu. This is totally for your own goodwill. With this act you will become a very powerfull devotee. If you don't do this in the near future devotees will also behave like this towards you.
So, please Prakash Prabhu, please, I am begging you once more to accept this very very humble request in order to save your soul. You will make everybody happy and satisfied with this move. Can you imagine that with this move you can make even Srila Prabhupada, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Sri Sri Radha Krishna, very very satisfied? You can even make Them smile, just by this little simple move.
So, you see now how powerfull you can become by just asking forgiveness to Jagadatma Prabhu. You can make even God smile.
So, dear Prakash Prabhu, accept this humble request.
We are here to help eachother. I am not a big devotee or playing one. I am also not interfering in your bussiness. Please do as you are requested.
I hope that with this request I did not offended you. If I still have offended you, I apolagise on my knees, begging to you for your forgiveness.
Thank you so much.
Jaya Radha Radha.
Caitanya Prabhu, your humility is outstanding. Forgive me that I am not even qualified to judge your humbleness.
Sometimes we tend to think that Krishna needs our devotion. Krishna is complete without our devotion. The problem is with us.
Once I criticized a devotee, just casually that he too should do Sankirtana and not just Japa. It is not the information that was wrong, but the way, the attitude I said it. Krishna kicked me out of my service, Sankirtana, temple, everything, for about 2 months, UNTIL I apologized to the devotee. He of course, being a devotee, readily forgave me and thought nothing of it.
Krishna will forgive us, even if we offend Him. Krishna will NOT forgive, if His beloved Devotee, is offended, even if the devotee is chanting offensively. Immediately I understood how much Krishna Loves His Devotees, no matter how insignificant devotion we have. By the grace of several devotee blessings I have lost some pride. I dont want to say that I have become humble, for I know that Maya Devi will trash me if I even think that way.
First of all, only by the grace of a devotee that we developed what ever bhakti we have by Ahaituki Kripa.
I feel blessed by your association Caitanya Prabhu.
Hare Krishna.
Dear Prakashji, please accept the blessings of Guru and Gauranga all the time!
The surprise package is not available in the shop for a small price. Are you really interested in going deeper into this or are you just into entertainment?
One who knows the transcendental nature of My appearance and activities does not, upon leaving the body, take his birth again in this material world, but attains My eternal abode, O Arjuna.
PURPORT
The Lord's descent from His transcendental abode is already explained in the 6th verse. One who can understand the truth of the appearance of the Personality of Godhead is already liberated from material bondage, and therefore he returns to the kingdom of God immediately after quitting this present material body. Such liberation of the living entity from material bondage is not at all easy. The impersonalists and the yogés attain liberation only after much trouble and many, many births. Even then, the liberation they achieve—merging into the impersonal brahmajyoti of the Lord—is only partial, and there is the risk of returning to this material world. But the devotee, simply by understanding the transcendental nature of the body and activities of the Lord, attains the abode of the Lord after ending this body and does not run the risk of returning to this material world. In the Brahma-saàhitä (5.33) it is stated that the Lord has many, many forms and incarnations: advaitam acyutam anädim ananta-rüpam. Although there are many transcendental forms of the Lord, they are still one and the same Supreme Personality of Godhead. One has to understand this fact with conviction, although it is incomprehensible to mundane scholars and empiric philosophers. As stated in the Vedas (Puruña-bodhiné Upaniñad):
eko devo nitya-lélänurakto
bhakta-vyäpé hådy antar-ätmä
"The one Supreme Personality of Godhead is eternally engaged in many, many transcendental forms in relationships with His unalloyed devotees." This Vedic version is confirmed in this verse of the Gétä personally by the Lord. He who accepts this truth on the strength of the authority of the Vedas and of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and who does not waste time in philosophical speculations attains the highest perfectional stage of liberation. Simply by accepting this truth on faith, one can, without a doubt, attain liberation. The Vedic version tat tvam asi is actually applied in this case. Anyone who understands Lord Krsna to be the Supreme, or who says unto the Lord "You are the same Supreme Brahman, the Personality of Godhead," is certainly liberated instantly, and consequently his entrance into the transcendental association of the Lord is guaranteed. In other words, such a faithful devotee of the Lord attains perfection, and this is confirmed by the following Vedic assertion:
tam eva viditväti måtyum eti
nänyaù panthä vidyate 'yanäya
"One can attain the perfect stage of liberation from birth and death simply by knowing the Lord, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and there is no other way to achieve this perfection." (Çvetäçvatara Upaniñad 3.8) That there is no alternative means that anyone who does not understand Lord Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead is surely in the mode of ignorance and consequently he will not attain salvation simply, so to speak, by licking the outer surface of the bottle of honey, or by interpreting the Bhagavad-gétä according to mundane scholarship. Such empiric philosophers may assume very important roles in the material world, but they are not necessarily eligible for liberation. Such puffed-up mundane scholars have to wait for the causeless mercy of the devotee of the Lord. One should therefore cultivate Krsna consciousness with faith and knowledge, and in this way attain perfection.
Do you have Bhaktivedanta Vedabase?
Dear Prakash. Hare Krsna! My question are you serious should not be seen as insulting. Why are you thinking like that? Why should I put effort to explain to you the development of the souls eternal love for Krsna if you have no faith. It is neccesary for me to ask. The glories of bhakti rasa are not so freely distributed indiscriminately. That would be an offence number 9. Unless you become a little humble you will not be able to put serious inquiries to anyone. There must be trust on both sides.
So at this time we can see how much advancement you have made. How to get more advancement should be your desire...and if you have no faith in me what can I do? At every step there will be misunderstanding.
Argumentation wrangling what will be gained? I wanted to write something on this but it seems this time is not favorable. So unless there is some faith you cannot put this question. Devotees are not interested in speculative debating. This does not mean I will never tell you.It means I don't trust you right now.
I pray to Nitai Gaurachandra that you make advance ment very quick so all your pride is finished then bhakti can grow strong.
Thank you for your replies. Nitai Gaurachandra ki jai!
Hari bol Prakash, The shastras the guru and the devotees use both literal and figurative discription regarding the soul and many other subjects. If you cannot distinguish between these uses deffinately you will be confused and see chaos.Especially if we take everything lterally. Why do you do that?
Most little educated persons are trained in this and it is used by everyone everyday.
Ill give a little example from shastra. Isopanisad. The killer of the soul is put ito the darkest region of ignorance.
So the soul cannot be killed therefore the usage must be figurative. So many figure of speech are there it could take so long to go through them here. That is why you must accept a guru to understand the shastras. Srila Prabhupadas and the previous acaryas writings will also be misunderstood by us without following the parampara system.
We have the guidance of Srila Prabhupada by the parampara not by speculating how his words can be interpreted with our imperfect mind.
No one will explain things exactly word for word the same. Even Sila Prabhupa had engaged his disciples to edit his books for clearer understanding. English was not his preferred language. One has to have personal training.
A small list of descriptive terms for the soul from shastra you may know.
Fallen soul highly developed soul
doubting soul Great soul
sinful soul pious soul
miserable soul self realized soul
impure soul pure soul
sleeping soul devoted soul
degraded soul elavated soul
bewildered soul scincere soul
rebeluous soul surrendered soul
conditioned soul liberated soul.
You can find these and more when you read.
Of course the soul is none of these things and yet they are all correct.
Please go on chanting more and more Hare Krsna.
Hare krishna ...... jai srila prabhupad......
there is no age for us(spiritual souls)
there is no age for individual soul..... krishna only said for soul there is no beggining and ending and no middle.. it is eternal and soul is always exist.... it has no age...... if anybody say it has age then that age is only knowable to krishna only...
And last question age of spiritual body......... now we dont have spiritual body we are having material body........
when we return to our(all souls) home back to godhead then we got spiritual bodies, then there is no age for that bodies because there is no birth death and oldage.. everyone is equal to krishna......
hari boooooooooolllllllllll
Jai Nitai Gaurachandra Ki jai!!. Thank you Nagender. So if Krsna knows He can tell you, yes?
There are different ways we can look at this like age of spiritual body, Age of soul. Defining age as growth or relative to another.
Do you like Baby Krsna? What means navayauvanam? Are mother Yashoda and Krshna the same age? Isn't it bewildering? They are all eternal but they have age. You have age also. For rasa you have spiritual body.
Arn't we such babies in our spiritual life? We have immaturity and maturity in the spiritual life also.The individual souls are at different levels of development.
You are simultaneously equal and not equal to Krsna. You may be even more than Krsna. Or can be less.
The soul is looking for Krsna. And only when you have got Him you will be fully grown, perfect and happy.
Krsna is seed giving father of all living beings. Eternally He is the greatest and oldest of all.
These appear contradictory and all such contradictions exist in Him. He is all attractive.
He and His devotees and Their eternal love, bhakti are only understandable by bhakti .
The sprit soul, Lord Krishna says, is Eternal, meaning no begining and no ending. Always there. Never dies.
Spirit soul cannot be destroyed by fire, wet by water.....
Answer would be ageless, or infinity is the age of the spiritsoul.
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