Without supreme Lord's help, can a soul exist ?

Hare Krishna,

  • Can a pure soul do anything without help from Supreme Lord ? Can a soul without any tinge of material contamination can operate without help from Supreme Lord ? Or without supreme Lord's help, can a soul exist ? What his status will be if soul is not powered by Supreme Lord ? 

-Jai srila Prabhupada !! Jai Gaur Nitai !!

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  • Prabhupada talks of Jivas having minute independence, and the entire purpose of our Krishna Consciousness movement is to get the conditioned Soul to return back Home, back to Godhead. Obviously the Supersoul does not sanction any evil or impious action, or help in the cause of such, so there is some independent withdrawal from the Lord for some living entities who rebel. This, however, is when they are in illusion and decide they want to lord it over material nature instead of becoming Servants to Krishna, and so they fall into the material world. We must all avoid this blunder! So it is possible to be apart from God, and Krishna is the only power, Love being the Only Power, being the prowess of all powerful men, so there is no power in evil. Those not powered by the Supreme Lord are baffled in everything they do until they come to repentance. When you find such people, urge them to chant Hare Krishna, for they were all former devotees, once participating in the Rasa dance with Krishna in the Spiritual World as Prabhupada has said, like we all have, but for some reason or other are now in this material world. Help bring them back Home, back to Godhead. Help fulfill Lord Caitanya's mission.

    Om!

    Always Chant Hare Krishna my friend!!!!!

  • Sevak

    Hare Krsna 

    Can a pure soul do anything without help from Supreme Lord ?

    No

    Can a soul without any tinge of material contamination can operate without help from Supreme Lord ?

    No. The word "operate" is subject to interpretation.

    Jivatma is marginal potency of Sri Krsna who is the supreme personality or Supreme energetic on whom the entire cosmic manifestation (material and spiritual) rests. By default, being marginal potency - the jivatma has to be under the shelter of either internal potency or external potency. Just like grains of sand on a beach are either wet or dry. 

    There is only one sphere in brahmajyoti where the jivatma can exist beoyond the perview of material energy but below the perview of spritual potency. Those who get sayujya mukti(like demons killed by Krsna who get liberation) reach brahmajyoti. Brahmajyoti itself is eternal but jivatma cannot be eternally exist in brahmajyoti as there is no function/action/operation in brahmajyoti. Jiva being sat-cit-ananda does not feel fulfilled and hence drops down to material realm for want to activity and ananda. 

    Or without supreme Lord's help, can a soul exist ?

    The jivatma is sat-cit-ananada. Sat means eternally existing. Jivatma for its own existence doesn't need any help, or in other words Supreme lord doesn't need to employ his(another) energy for existence of jivatma. Jivatma already being the energy of Supreme lord Sri Krsna exists. But in material world when jivatma takes a body, Krsna's material energy acts upon the jiva due to presence of desires held by jiva.

    What his status will be if soul is not powered by Supreme Lord ? 

    The jiva will become inactive and unmanifest.

    avyaktād vyaktayaḥ sarvāḥ
    prabhavanty ahar-āgame
    rātry-āgame pralīyante
    tatraivāvyakta-saṁjñake

    When Brahmā's day is manifest, this multitude of living entities comes into being, and at the arrival of Brahmā's night they are all annihilated.

    During the daytime of they exhibit their activities, and at the coming of Brahmā's night they are annihilated. In the day they receive various bodies for material activities, and at night these bodies perish. The jīvas (individual souls) remain compact in the body of and again and again are manifest at the arrival of Brahmā's day. When Brahmā's life is finally finished, they are all annihilated and remain unmanifest for millions and millions of years. Finally, when is born again in another millennium, they are again manifest. In this way the jīvas are captivated by the material world. (BG 8.18)

    This happens when all the material universes are annihilated or whole material existence is annihilated, the jivatma take shelter in the transcendental body of Karanodakasayi Visnu. At that time there is no material elements, There is no light, no activity and all jiva are inactive. But the material desires are still present within jiva, they are still materially conditioned. When again creation takes place, material energy is activited and jivatma take up bodies. 

    In the spiritual world there is always activity. It never stops, the pure devotees in spiritual world are eternally serving Sri Krsna and are never inactive. They are under the shelter of Sri Krsna's internal potency or  Yoga Maya

    Hare Krsna

     

    • Hare Krishna,

      Thank you very much. So Jivatma should make his plans/desires so that he is been opted/utilized/selected by the creator for His enjoyment. Whereas conditioned souls are trying to be enjoyer which is impossible in reality. Is this understanding right ?

      - Jai Srila Prabhupada !! Jai Gaur Nitai !!

      • Sevak

        If by creator you mean Krsna, then Yes, your understanding is correct. 

        Hare Krsna

      • I remember receiving a flyer at a Hare Krishna Temple when I first joined, and on the flyer were Prabhupada's words, one of the things that I clearly remember in philosophy and what drove me to the movement was Prabhupada writing, one if the things, "the goal of life is to enjoy." That is certainly one perspective. But how are we to enjoy? There is only One way to enjoy the way we are meant for and that is in Eternal Loving Service with the Supreme Lord. So we can enjoy, but we must enjoy in Krishna's service, we must enjoy with God, and please the Lord, as Prabhupada says, so that He will enjoy with us. Once a level of friendship and Prema with the Lord is reached, unlimited Bliss will arrive and the boundless happiness of existing on Krishna-loka with Krishna and the Gopīs will be our Eternal Perogative, and we will no longer have to return to this miserable material world. Have your hopes set on Spiritual Love of Krishna, which is the goal of all True Sages. Hare Krishna! Om Tat Sat. There will be nothing that can separate you from His Love.

  •  Hare Krishna Prabhu,

    By nature Soul being a part of the Supersoul ( parmathama) is eternal , minute and uncontaminated or untainted by the material contaminations. 

    By nature soul is pure cousiousness.. Or Sat chit ananda. or bliss supereme. Being a part of the Supereme bliss.. Soul is always pure and never tainted by material contaminations..

    When we die.. the soul gets seperated from the body( physcial body) and soul along with Subtle body( that is mind, false ego and the intelligience) go along with the soul.. Which are contaminated but not the soul.

    Mind , false ego and the intelligience are corrupted but never the soul.

    SOUL is a part of Supersoul and always blissfull and full of pure consciousness.

    Soul is NOT MADE OF MATTER SO IT CANNOT GET CONTAMINATED EVER.

    Soul and Supersoul are like two friends sitting on a tree.. One cannot be without another. That is Achintya abedha bedha tattva. Though they look seperated but they are never seperate. One cannot exist without another.

    Can a part of Lord exist without Lord?

    That is the reason why soul always yearns to find happiness or bliss.. ( that it is not complete without Bliss supereme or the Supersoul).

    Pretatma is ghost..which is nothing but soul with all the negative emotions and unsatisfied desires.. which cannot transcended to higher planets because of too much negative and suppressed desires carried in the subtle body.( emotions, desires all these are carried in the mind ) 

    Atma free from subtle body no longer exists. .. it gets mukti and merges into the bliss supereme and becomes one with Lord. ( Sayujya mukti).

    Atma with subtle body is the cause of  taking new bodies all the time.

    Soul not powered by Superme Lord doesn't exist practically. Soul is a part of Supersoul. Soul always craves to be united with supereme bliss 

    Hare Krishna.

    • Hare Krishna,

      So soul not powered by Superme Lord doesn't exist practically. Thank you so much.

      - Jai Srila Prabhupada !! Jai Gaur Nitai !!

  • E-Counselor

    Hare KRsna Prabhuji,

    PAMHO.

    Soul is eternal, always existing.

    Your question is not understood. If the soul is pure, uncontaminated, then how is it there is no love for Godhead in that soul? Why would a pure soul want anything except to be in its constitutional position of serving the lord. 

    Haribol,

    Your servant,

    Radha Rasamayi DD

    • Hare Krishna,

      My question is not about love, it is about existance. Whatever a pure soul does ( may be serving the Lord itself), is he doing that using his own eneegy or Lords energy or some kind of mixture ? Can a soul have consciousness without Lord's help at any moment of time ?

      - Jai Srila Prabhupada !! Jai Gaur Nitai !!

       

      • In real sence everything is spiritual as everything is the lords energy, including jivas.

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