When I came to the temple, I was taught "no illicit relations, nothingoutside of marriage, and only with special circumstance within marriage." I came to KC teachings from a celibate background. I was taught no illicit relations by my parents. I lived with nuns in my teens. I practiced celibacy as young adult. I was married to a man who requested we have a marriage of no sexual relations, except to bear children. He was not a devotee, he became ill and did not want to continue with me. We have been apart for 17 years. I waited for him, I was not with another man. About 4 years ago he spoke with me very respectfully and told me, with great thought, he did not want to continue with the marriage.
Soon after my husband told me his wishes, a devotee told me to 'come meet my new husband' (another man from the temple). But, me, I didn't want to get a new husband! I was relatively new to the temple. I owned my own house, was going to receive guaranteed income for the rest of my life (due to an injury I received), was older in age, was told I might not live much longer (due to receiving the injury). My wish was to live alone and go to the nearby temple and learn about Krishna Consciousness, for the remainder of my life.
The new man offered me service at the temple, which I was eager to be allowed. It involved driving in the temple van. I was told we shouldn't be alone together in the van, or alone doing the service together. We became engaged. Then it was ok for us to work together. After a very few months, I was told we had been engaged too long and we should marry. I didn't want to be forced into marriage, and by then I could see there were difficulties in the relationship.
After that point, I have asked questions, and tried to find out. I was told sexual relations are a big part of relationships, that the woman must serve the sexual needs of the man. I was taught a woman cannot be alone, that she is too lusty and will have multiple partners if not chaste to one man. She must obey and serve that man, and serve him sexually.
So I was left wondering, why is one of the 4 regulative principles 'no illicit sex.'
One answer I received was: the men can choose not to have sex, but women must only serve the choices and sexual needs of the men.
That left me wondering, who are the books written for? When I read them, they seem also to be telling me (a woman), not to have illicit sexual relations. Are the books only written to men? I was told they are written for everyone.
I was told men need sexual satisfactions so they can calmly pursue KC; that men need sexual satisfactions until, in time, they gradually fall away from such activities; that the woman who provides these satisfactions is helping the man with his progress in KC. I was told it is better that men receive sexual satisfactions, than that they leave the movement altogether. I was told that as a woman I cannot understand the strong need men have to be satisfied sexually, I was told it is like needing food or water for a man.
I was told that women need to be married. I was told women must provide for the sexual needs of the husband. So that would mean, it seems, that to be in a female body, one must provide for the sexual desires of those who are in male bodies? So, once I am born in a female body, I must then provide sex satisfactions for a (required) husband.
I was also told, that women are so....contaminated....that devotee men should not even marry them. I was told women devotees should marry non-devotee men, so not to bring down devotee men.
I was also told, though, that my marriage to a non-devotee husband (from years ago) does not 'count' because he is a non-devotee. I was told only vedic marriages are recognized.
I do know of specific case where the man carries infectious (deadly) disease which can be transfered to the woman by sexual contact. Is it serving Krishna to submit to that risk? I have been told the woman should risk any bad circumstance to serve the husband.
I am told repeatedly, that I am too independent and should submit to aman. (I have learned enough to know I am not independent, I must imagine myself to be). I have cooperated to some extent.
I am still legally married to a non-devotee husband, but told I am supposed to be married to a devotee husband (with or without divorce of first husband) -- I am afraid of legal charges if I was to cooperate. I wish I could be allowed to follow 4 regulative principles. I wish I wasn't forced into sexual relations, wish I wasn't forced into marriage. Even with questioning whether I could end the 'engagement' I have been told I should obey the man. The woman has no choice in ending an engagement? Or in agreeing to a marriage? Is this true?
Sometimes the man doesn't follow very much, and just wants money from the woman, if she knows this -- is she serving Krishna? -- simply to do things for the material satisfaction of the man, and to allow the money she has been given to be used for non-devotional activities?
If it was outside of marriage and outside of serving a man, it would be taught 'no' I think.
When the man is unstable, cruel, prevents her from chanting -- must she be with him?
And, why is 'no illicit sex' one of the 4 regulative principles?
(I'm sorry, but I have had so many frustrations and questions about this)
You need to be a member of ISKCON Desire Tree | IDT to add comments!
Replies are closed for this discussion.
please do not worry.
please ask your question to KRSNA ,why i am suffering ,even though i want to serve YOU ,i want to be YOUR servant ,why i am not getting right information from the same source while others get,why i am cheated again and again?
if u will ask to HIM, HE will show HIS mercy and HE will show the right path ,HE is very mercy full,HE shows the path to every one .
HE will show the right path to you also ,it is my belief.
One more thing please do not think more and more about whatever happend. it may not be possible but you will have to do so because if you think you will find no answer about why did it happned ?
As we know every thing is not in our hand,we are not the controller of every thing,but we have free will ,and we have choice. please do not worry, now according to your free will ,u will have to make choice and for the choice you will have to give priority to them keeping the ultimate goal of life in the mind.
And associate with matajis ,do not feel lonely.
If I listened to what everyone else is saying I would be totally confused as you seem to be. We are supposed to read Srila Prabhupadas books and follow his simple teachings. He never discriminated against women.
We do have a mind and a heart of our own. and if we are sincere in Krishna then we had better listen to Him within. I would start listening to Krishna within using Srla Prabhupadas teachings and stop listening to so much SHOULDS or down the road you may find yourself in a world of misery and try to BLAME Krishna, Prabhupada and everyone else for your actions. Ultimately it is you who will have to live in your situation. You have to ask yourself what is best for YOUR devotional service and Relationship with Krishna.
No illiset sex is meant to get us detached from this bodily concept of life. Sex is what is keeping us in this material world life after life.
If you want to come back to this material world again, then go ahead and mary someone for material reasons. Or because someone said you SHOULD! (It is a material reason to so called satisfy your husbands sex desire. So that is not our Philosophy. If he is a real devotee then he wont demand such thigs.
People have told me terrible stories of what they did acording to what others in the temle told them to do IE: married this one, left that one, Kept thier kids in a guru kula (school)with crazy molesters, went on Sankirtan all day leaving their kids at temple with no engagement, went out collecting for temple -selling foot ball stickers, took innitiation from a bogus guru (who later fell down badly with women etc.), and on and on ,and later they only blame the so called AUTHORITIES for thier actions. The fact is we have a mind and a consciousness and we are supposed to make our decisions acording to Prabhupadas teachings. Ultimately you will have to deal with your actions, not all those (THEY PEOPLE you keep talking about) THEY won't have to suffer the situation you will be in because of your choice. YOU WILL. So USe your GOd given intelligence and just see what is best for you Krishna Consciousness. And if THEY say- OH that is just so INDEPENDENDANT MINDED! I would say! THANK GOD! Because if you follow all of THEY! (THEM) You could end up without Krishna Consciousness or in total misery. BE CAREFUL who you take advice from, BE KRISHNA CONSCIOUS, use YOUR Intelligence-what ever you have and rely on Krishna and Prabhupadas books. If you think you unhappy now just play it out in your mind if you mary that man? What does your heart say? You have to decide. No one else can do that for you. Even Krishna wont touch your free will. You have to choose your path your life. Please dont be a victim of the THEY TOLD ME Sindrome!
Yes, what is the main goal? What is the focus?
Your situation brought a tear to my eye.I read your profile and can make out that you have gone through a lot of pain recently and then took shelter of Krishna.It is indeed sad to know that one can be cheated even in the house of the Supreme Lord.But this is not uncommon since we are in Kaliyuga.
I agree with Jayasree Radha's post above abt using our own intelligence but also agree that sometimes our intelligence fails us.One has to be a very strong devotee to tide over the tricks of Maya.That is when instructions from a bonafide Guru come to our rescue.Plz approach your Guru maharaj.Also you can seek guidance from H.G.Sankarshan Das Adhikari who can be reached online.Personally believe that would be the best channel to get a solutn-this forum has served its purpose.
Our main goal is to go back to Godhead-so plz keep chanting sincerely and be strong.
My prayers are with you
Pleased forgive any of my offenses I may have committed in my lengthy answer.
Your well wisher,
Jayasri Radha dd