Is ram supreme lord and is he krishna? or just ram is incarnation of supreme?
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Is ram supreme lord and is he krishna? or just ram is incarnation of supreme?
You need to be a member of ISKCON Desire Tree | IDT to add comments!
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Absolutely Shri Ram is the Supreme Lord, there is no doubt about it, Lord Shri Krishna himself is an incarnation of Shri Ram.
Hold Your Seat~
1)पूर्णोपूर्णावतारश्च श्यामोरामोरघूत्तमः । अंशानृसिंहकृष्णाद्याः राघवोभगवान्स्वयम् ॥
(इति ब्रह्म संहिता एवं याज्ञवल्क्य संहिता)
जो श्याम वर्ण के श्रीराम है वे रघुश्रेष्ठ एवं परिपूर्ण हैं। श्रीराम स्वयं भगवान है, जिनके अंश मात्र से नरसिंह, कृष्ण आदि सब प्रकट होते हैं।
2)एष श्रीरामः सर्वज्ञः सर्वेश्वरः आनन्दभुक त्रयावस्था परः तत्वम् नारायणो विष्णु नरसिंह बराहो कृष्णोमत्स्यादि अवताराः यस्यांक कलाभूताः तदेव परमात्मनं वृणीमहे भूतम् भव्यम् भवच्चास्मात् सम्भूत्वा एवं भूतं य वेद स पापात्मान विहाय अमृतत्वम् च गच्छति।
(सामवेद संहिता~ 3.1)
ये ही श्रीराम सर्वज्ञ है, सर्वेश्वर है, आनन्द भोक्ता है, तीनों अवस्था से परे हैं, परमतत्व है, नारायण विष्णु, नृसिंह, बाराह, कृष्ण, मत्स्यादि सभी अवतार जिनके कलांश विभूति स्वरूप है, उसी परमात्मा श्रीराम का हम वरण करते हैं। भूत भाविष्य वर्तमान जिनसे होते रहते हैं, वह राम है, ऐसा जो जानता है, वह सभी पापों को त्यागकर अमृत धाम को प्राप्त करत है।
3)कृष्णोंशांशो ह एव अस्य वृन्दावन विभुषणः
ऐते चांशकलाश्चैव रामस्तु भगवान स्वयं
(श्रीमद् आदिरामाय
Krishna who is adored in Vrindavan is ansha ash . All these are plenary incarnations shri Ram is himself bhagwa
4)श्रीरामो भगवान पुर्णः कलाभिः पुरुषोत्तमः
कोटिलक्ष्मीसहस्त्रणाम् अशंनि जनकात्मजा
एतयारेव दिव्यांशो राधाकृष्णात्मकौ ब्रजे
अन्याश्च सकला गोप्यस्तदंशाशां उदीरिता।
द्वारिकायां रुक्मिणीयं महालक्ष्मी महेश्वरी
अन्याश्च सत्यभामाद्यास्तदंशा सहजात्मिका।
(श्रीमद् आदिरामाय
Shri Ram is bhagwan of all kalas. Thousands of maa laxmi emanates from maa sita. From divine portions of shri Sita Ram, Radha Krishna does lila in vrindavan. All Gopis, mahalaxmi Rukmini, bhu Devi avtar satyabhama are all parts of maa sita.
Shri Ram took avtar as krishna
1.
यो वै वसति गोलोके द्विभुजस्तु धनुर्धरः।
सदानन्दमयो रामः येन विश्वमिदं ततम्।।
(Sadashiv samhita)
One who resides in golok is none other than two armed Shri Ram who welds bow and arrow. The two armed Shri Ram is very form of blissful and from him entire cosmos came into existence.
2.
शुद्धिर्भविष्यति पुरन्दरनंदन! त्वं मामेव चेदहह! पातकिनं शयानम्।
सौख्यार्थिनं निरपराधिनमाहनिष्यस्यस्मात्पुनर्जनकजाविरहोऽस्तु मा मे।।
(Hanuman natak 5.57)
Shri ram says " o surpati Kumar Bali! When you will kill me when I will be yog nidra ,(krishna avtar) , then you will get your revenge. At that time, i will not have this loneliness after sita was kidnapped.
3.
रुद्रादीनां वचः श्रृत्वा प्रोवाच भगवान् स्वयं।
अंगयंग करिष्यामि भवद्वाक्यं करोमि अहम्।।
(Krishna upanishad)
Then rudras and other devas also started praying to Ram to participate in his ras lila. Then swaym bhagwan shri Rama told them that he will make them as his associates in next incarnation.
4.
सर्वे पृथक् पृथक् जाताः संख्यः श्रीरामसन्निधौ।
असंख्यता मुनिश्रेष्ठाः सख्य एव न संशयः।।
(Aadi Ramayan 4.28.25 a &26b)
All rishi muni have done penance differently to participate in shri ram's lila , and he assured that he will fulfill their wish during krishna avtar.
5.
को वा ज्ञातुं त्वामतिमानं गतमानं मायासक्तो माधव शक्तो मुनिमान्यम्।
वृन्दारण्ये वन्दितवृन्दारवृन्दं वन्दे रामं भवमुखवन्द्य सुखकन्दं।।
(Adhyatm ramayan yudh kand 13.16)
Nobody can ever know you who is connected with Maya. You are even recerred by maharishis, o raghav! You will incarnate as krishna who will be adored in Vrindavan and will be worshipped by shiva, indra and other gods
6.
उतिष्ठ उतिष्ठ कालिंदि श्रृनु त्वं वचनं मम्।
द्वापरे कृष्णरुपेण त्वा करिष्यामि अहम् स्त्रियम्।
(Anand Ramayan rajya kand purva ardha 12.117)
Shri Ram says - o kalindi! Stand up, listen , during Dwapar yug, i will incarnate as krishna and make you as my wife.
hare krishna....
ur question seriously awesome and it is to be sorted out to everyone.....
first of all the supreme has taken 10 incarnations, they are vamana,narasimha,matsya,kurma,varaha,parashurama,rama,balarama,krishna,kalki and buddha.All these incarnations were for certain cause and meaning. all the incarnations were took by mahavishnu so that he can kill the evil and serve the purpose, but sri ramchandra avtar is not like that ,lord vishnu himself promised to the world that he will be taking birth as a normal human being and lead a human life for 11,000 years and preach the world that how can a person reach the height of perfection and save the pious from the hands of the evil.
RAMA means- RA+MA,(RA and MA BOTH ARE BIJA AKSHARAS)
where, RA= IS FROM THE NARAYANA ASHTAKSHARI MANTRA (OM NAMO NARAYANAYA)
MA= IS FROM THE SHIVA PANCHAKSHRI MANTRA (OM NAMAH SHIVAYA)
RAMA is the name which has the power of both lord vishnu and lord shiva.rama namam is enough to achieve all the desitinations of ur life.how a son should behave,how a brother should behave, how a responsible citizen should behave,how a master should behave,each and rama sets an role model at every stage of person's life.
once before sri rama's incarnation in krutha yuga godess paravathi devi asks lord shiva that, which is powerfull amongst the vishnu names so that just by chanting the name it kills all the evils inside and outside the world and to become pure for the inside of the to a common man what should be done? whom should the living entity worship?which vishnu name should chanted?
PARVATHYU UVACHA:
" KENO PAYENA LAGUNA VISHNURNAMA SAHASRAKAM
PATYADER PANDITAIRNITYAM SHROTUMICHYAM MAHAYAM PRABHO"
the lord shiva says
ESHWARA UVACHA:
" SRI RAMA RAMA RAMETI RAME RAME MANO RAME
SAHASRANAMA TAT TULYAM RAMA NAMA VARNANE"
lord shiva says ,paravathi rama is the only powerful name amogst the vishnu's 1000 names,and just by chanting it,it becomes equal to all other names of vishnu and it is only name through which a person can easily attain the moksha.
u know what, rama is the only name amongst all the vishnu names which has BIJA AKSHARAS in it. to attain anything in a spiritual way bija akshras are more helpful as they are powerful ,as the vedas says these letters(bija aksharas) and generated from the lord shiva's damruka dvani(sound of damarukam).
RAMA NAMAM OR IT IS MAY BE LORD RAM HIMSELF BOTH ARE MORE POWERFUL AND PERFECT ROLE MODEL FOR A HUMAN LIFE
RAMA HAS TAKEN BIRTH TO SHOW HOW A MAN SHOULD BE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.......................
and coming to KRISHNA ,he is the causes of all causes he was born with four hands hold shanka,chakra,gadha,padma(i.e., the conch,discus,mace and lotus)so only KRISHNA is called as KRISHNA BAGHVAN.
vedas said,
KRUTHOU NARASIMHAYA
TERTAYA RAGHUNANDANAHA
DWAPARE VASUDEVASCHA
KALAOU SRI VENKATANYAKAHA
which means ,in kruta yuga he was narasimha,in treta yuga he was sri ramachandra ,in dwapara he is lord krishna and in kaliyuga he is lord venkateshwara srinivas govinda who is standing on the padma peetam in the ananda nilayam on seven hills at tirupathi.
the material is same only the medium and view of accepting it is been changed.
see,vishnu took narasimha avtar not only to kill hiranyakashipu,but to preach and set an example to all the that even a devotee calls the lord with all the devotion,love and affection by surrendering unto him he will cum for sure to rescue.
and rama avtar , as i said it was to preach how a man should behave with his responsibilities and with the world so that he will be a shining star the pages of the history .always dont study rama's story as a god's story insteady study and listen it as a human being's story then u will understand what should be done exactly in life...
krishna avatar was taken to prech everyone that what is mother's love , the avatar preached that everything in this world is born for some purpose,krishna was born born to preach the dharma.as he the causes of all causes.
and now lord srinivas govinda is incared to to save all the living entity from the kali purusha's evil hands,he stands on the padma peetam and take cares of each and everyone in this world.
it may be ram or krishna the power is the one and the same.............as iskcon is founded on the basis of krishna bakthi.....so we have only krishna in our consiousness..............love and affection is one and the same.....
its my opinion and suggestion,hopefully i have helped u in finding out the answer,any more queries u can ask me.
yours friendly,
vinay
===============================HARE KRISHNA===================================================
Hare Krishna,
There are three types of devotees. Kanistha Adhikary, Madhyma Adhikary and Uthma Adhikary as we find in nectar of instruction.
"A person who is very faithfully engaged in the worship of the Deity in the temple, but who does not know how to behave toward devotees or people in general is called a prākṛta-bhakta, or kaniṣṭha-adhikāri." They sometimes argue with others that this is correct and that is wrong.
A madhyama-adhikārī has received spiritual initiation from the spiritual master and has been fully engaged by him in the transcendental loving service of the Lord. The madhyama-adhikārī should be considered to be situated midway in devotional service.
The uttama-adhikārī, or highest devotee, is one who is very advanced in devotional service. An uttama-adhikārī is not interested in blaspheming others, his heart is completely clean, and he has attained the realized state of unalloyed Kṛṣṇa consciousness. According to Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī, the association and service of such a mahā-bhāgavata, or perfect Vaiṣṇava, are most desirable.
Each devotee should try to elevate himself to the level of Utama Adhikary and should not Blasphemy others irrespective of whatever he is saying.
Without doubt Krishnaraj Melvin and Dr Melvin Mabalay are introducing new concepts in this forum which has not been said by Srila Prabhupada and in his books. In such a situation one has to simply reject such concepts and remain faraway from such concepts. Whatever is said in scriptures alone one should accept.
I am mainly posting for the neophyte devotees who are joining this forum to make sure that, posts made by Krishnaraj Melvin and Dr Melvin Mabalay, don't misguide them.
Haribol,
S.Balaji.
There is something I want to confide. I love Srila Prabhupada. In fact, I consider him my Vani Guru. I can not recall how many times I cried whenever I remember His Divine Grace in his book Prabhupada written by Satsvarup Dasa Goswami. There is a page there where Srila Prabhupad stayed in a home in Philadelphia. In that decent home where His Divine Grace stayed, a little girl who observed Prabhupada seating in the sofa chanting silently with his beads. Never saying a word until this cute little girl called to her mommy pointing at this old man and said, " Mommy! Look..It's Swami Jesus! " With those words, Srila Prabhupad was hit by a thunderbolt. His Divine Grace smiled at them and said, " And a little child shall lead them. " This is very significant because he is giving us a hint as to who he really is. I even tell jokingly to my friends that if one is waiting for the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. The Lord has already arrived and left! Can't you see in your heart? Srila Prabhupad is Swami Jesus. If you dont know this by now then you have missed the boat.
Haribol always,
Krsnaraja Melvin
balaji yeh gadha paagal ho chukka hai. aap mat uljho. mujhe sirf itna batao ki issay main kaise deal karu. main jahan bhi jaata hoon yeh wahan heehaw karta rehta hai. moderator bhi koi madat nahi kar raha hai
Dear Dr Melvin Mabalay,
Whenever we have a doubt in physics we take a physics book and try to clarify the doubt. If we are not able to understand the physics book we approach a physics teacher and he clarifies our doubt. The physics teacher never adds or deletes anything in the physics book. He simply explains the concepts in physics book such that we can understand it.
As far as Srila Prabhupada is concerned he happens to be perfect spiritual teacher. He never added anything to Bhagavad gita or Bhagavatam or deleted anything from scriptures. He simply explained scriptures to common man such that they can understand it without adding or deleting anything from them.
Which scripture says Balaram Charaka as Jesus Christ. Is it said in Gita or Bhagawatam. As far as iskcon is concerned we go as per Srila Prabhupada and his books. Anything else we reject. Has Srila Prabhupada ever said Balaram Charaka as Jesus Christ. If Srila Prabhupada has not said it, then nobody in iskcon is going to accept Balaram Charaka as Jesus Christ.
Apart from that I am student of Sankarshan Das Adhikary who is a direct disciple of Srila Prabhupada and is an initiating Spiritual master in iskcon. As far as jesus christ is concerned my gurudeva Sankarshan Das Adhikary has replied number of times about jesus christ and here is what he learnt from his spiritual master Srila Prabhupada. Here are the following links
http://www.sda-archives.com/tftd/tftd/2009/oct/tftd_102909.html#W
http://www.sda-archives.com/tftd/tftd/2004/feb/tftd_020904.html#W
http://www.sda-archives.com/tftd/tftd/2014/may/tftd_051914.html#W
http://www.sda-archives.com/tftd/tftd/2005/feb/tftd_022505.html#W
http://www.sda-archives.com/tftd/tftd/2011/dec/tftd_122911.html#W
Haribol,
S.Balaji.
So don't be upset with them.
From Garga-samhita Canto 8 Chapter Nine
Sri Rama-rasa-krida
Lord Balarama’s Rasa Dance
Text 1
duryodhana uvacha muni-shardula bhagavan balabhadro naga-kanyabhir gopibhih kada kalindi-kule vijahara.
Duryodhana said: O tiger of sages, when did Lord Balarama enjoy the rasa dance on the Yamuna’s shore with gopis that had been snake-girls in their previous birth?
Text 2
shri-pradvipaka uvacha ekada dvaraka-nagarad dhi talankam ratham asthapya suran didrikshuh param utkantho nanda-raja-gokula-go-gopala-gopi-gana-sankulah sankarshana agatash chirotkanthabhyam nandaraja-yashodabhyam parishvakto gopi-gopala-gobhir militva tatra dvau masau vasantikau cavatsit.
shri Pradvipaka Muni said: One day, eager to see His devotees, Lord Balarama mounted His chariot bearing a palm-tree flag, left Dvaraka, and, yearning to see the gopas, gopis, and cows, went to Gokula. Yashoda and King Nanda embraced Him when He arrived. Later He met with the gopas and gopis. He stayed there for two months.
Text 3
atha cha ya naga-kanyah purvoktas ta gopa-kanya bhutva balabhadra-prapty-artham- gargacaryad balabhadrapancangam- grihitva tenaiva siddha babhuvuh. tabhir baladeva ekada prasannah kalindi-kule rasa-mandalam- samarebhe. tadaiva caitra-purnimayam- pürna-candro ‘runa-varnah sampurnam-vanam-ranjayan vireje.
The previously described snake-girls became gopis and, in order to attain Lord Balarama’s association, on Garga Muni’s advice followed the five methods of worshiping Lord Balarama. In this way they became perfect. Pleased with them, Lord Balarama enjoyed a rasa-dance with them on the full-moon night of the month of Caitra (March-April), a night when the red moon reddened the whole of Vrindavana forest.
Text 4
shritala manda-yanah kamala-makaranda-renu-vrinda-samvritah sarvato vayavah parivavuh kalinda-giri-nandini-cala-laharnibhir ananda-dayini pulinam-vimalam-hy acitam-chakara. tatha cha kunja-prangana-nikunja-punjaih sphural-lalita-pallava-pushpa-paragair mayura-kokila-pumskokila-kujitair madhupa-madhura-dhvanibhir vraja-bhumir vibhrajamana babhuva.
Cooling, gentle, delightful, lotus-pollen filled breezes pushed the Yamuna’s waves and blew to the splendid shore. Then the land of Vraja became very splendid, its many forest groves and courtyards filled with the fragrant pollen of playfully and gracefully blossoming flowers, with the cooing of cuckoos and peacocks, and with the sweet humming of bees.
Text 5
tatra kvanad-ghantika-nupurah sphuran-mani-maya-kataka-kati-sutra-keyura-hara-kirita-kundalayor upari kamala-patrair nilambaro vimala-kamala-patraksho yakshibhir yaksha-rad iva gopibhir gopa-rad, rasa-mandale reje.
Decorated with tinkling ankle-bells, glittering gold and jewel necklace, armlets, belt, crown, and earrings, and with many lotus petals, dressed in blue garments, and His eyes like glittering lotus petals, Lord Balarama was splendid with the gopis in the rasa-dance circle. He was like Kuvera surrounded by a host of beautiful yakshis.
Text 6
atha varuna-preshita varuëi devi pushpa-bhara-gandhi-lobhi-milinda-nadita-vriksha-kotarebhyah patanti sarvato vanam-surabhi-cakara. tat-pana-mada-vihvalah kamala-vishala-tamraksho makaradhvajavesha-calad-dhuryanga-bhango vihara-kheda-prasvedambu-kanair galad-ganda-sthala-patra-bhango gajendra-gatir gajendra-shundadaëda-sama-dordanda-mandito gajibhir gaja-rajendra ivonmattah simhasane nyasta-halo musala-panih kotindu-purna-mandala-sankashah prodgamad-ratna-manjira-pracala-nupura-prakvanat-kanaka-kinkinibhih kaikana-sphurat-tatanka-purata-hara-shri-kanthanguliya-shiromanibhih pravidambini-krita-sarpini-shyama-veni-kuntala-lalita-ganda-sthala-patravalibhih sundaribhir bhagavan bhuvaneshvaro vibhrajamano viraraja atha cha reme.
Then, sent by the demigod Varuna, Goddess Varuni, in the form of honey oozing from the hollows of trees filled with the humming of bees made greedy by the sweet scent of the flowers, made the entire forest very fragrant. Eager to drink that honey, His eyes now red lotus flowers, His limbs weakened by enjoying amorous pastimes, perspiration born from the fatigue of His pastimes now streaming down His cheeks and washing away the pictures and designs drawn there, walking like an elephant king, decorated with mighty arms like the trunks of elephant kings, as if intoxicated, sitting on a throne, relinquishing His plow, His club still in His hand, splendid like ten million full moons, His jewel anklets, bracelets, and other ornaments tinkling, His gold earrings, necklaces, finger-rings, and jewel crown glittering, and surrounded by beautiful gopis, their cheeks decorated with graceful pictures and designs and their black braids mocking the beautiful snake girls, Lord Balarama, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the master of the worlds, shone with great splendor, and enjoyed transcendental pastimes.
Text 7
atha ha vava kalindi-kula-kantara-paryatana-vihara-parishramodyat-sveda-bindu-vyapta-mukharavindah snanartham jala-kridartham yamunam dürat sa ajuhava. tatas tö anagatam tatinim halagrena kupito vicakarsha iti hovaca cha.
His lotus face covered with perspiration born from the fatigue of wandering along the Yamuna’s shore and enjoying many pastimes, Lord Balarama called for the Yamuna to come to Him so He could bathe and enjoy water-pastimes. When the Yamuna did not come, Lord Balarama became angry and began to drag it to Him, scratching its shore with the tip of His plow. Lord Balarama said:
Text 8
adya mam avajnaya nayasi mayahutapi musalena tvam kama-carinim çatadha neshya eva nirbhartsita sa bhuri-bhita yamuna cakita tat-padayoh patitovaca.
“Today you have no respect for Me. Even though I call, you ignore My order and go your own way as you wish. Now I will divide you into a hundred tiny streams.” Rebuked with these words and now very afraid, the Yamuna came before Lord Balarama, fell at His feet, and said:
Text 9
rama rama sankarshana balabhadra maha-baho tava param vikramam na jane. yasyaikasmin murdhni sarshapavat sarvam bhu-khanda-mandalam- drishyate. tasya tava param anubhavam ajanantim prapannam mam moktum yogyo ‘si. tvam bhakta-vatsalo ‘si.
“Rama! Rama! Sankarshana! Balabhadra! O mighty-armed one! I did not know Your great power. The entire earth is seen resting like a single tiny mustard-seed on one of Your many heads. It is proper for You to release me, who have now surrendered to You and who did not know Your true glories. You should release me because You are always affectionate to Your devotees.
Text 10
ity evam yacito balabhadro yamunam tato vyamunchat punah karenubhih kariva gopibhir gopa-rad jale vijagaha. punar jalad vinirgatya tata-sthaya balabhadraya sahasa yamuna copayanam nilambarani hema-ratna-maya-bhushanani divyani cha dadau ha vava tani gopi-yuthaya prithak prithak vibhajya svayam nilambare vasitva kanchanim malam nava-ratna-mayim dhritva mahendro varanendra iva balabhadro vireje.
Begged in this way, Lord Balarama released the Yamuna. Then He enjoyed in the Yamuna’s waters, as an elephant enjoys with its many wives. When He returned to the shore the Yamuna approached and gave Him gifts of many blue garments and many ornaments of gold and jewels. Lord Balarama divided the gifts among the girls, giving some to each gopi. Then He dressed in one of the blue garments and decorated Himself with a necklace of gold and nine kinds of jewels. Then He enjoyed with the gopis as the king of elephants enjoys with its many wives.
http://www.vrindavan-dham.com/texts/balabhadra-sahasra-nama/