Hare Krishna to all devotees
All glories to Srila Prabhupada
Please forgive I am wrong.
It is being said that One who goes to spiritual world Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana , never returns to this material world. But if we were actually spirit souls belonging to Vaikuntha. Then why did we leave Vaikuntha in the first place? What made us fall to this world full of miseries?
Hari Bol!
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This makes sense. Thank you Mihir Prabhu and Jagadatma Prabhu for enlightening me.
So this is just like Srila Prabhupada classifying Lord Shiva as a demigod. It just makes him much easier to understand than the position glorified in the Brahma Samhita and other literature, correct?
Dear Radhe, Hare Krsna. Yes, at first it is good that the devotees have a some what fanatical attitude of avoidance of the demigods.
It takes a lot of study time and mature realization to understand all these different truths, tattvas.
Srila Prabhpada would stress we should study the shastras and ask questions to get everything clear without any doubt.
Then when all misconceptions are removed you will advance very steadily.
So just as in a school the answers will be different for different levels of students so the Guru may not give everything right away but he hes certainly put everything we need in his books.
Dear devotees, please try to understand the very high position of the residents of Goloka dham and the level of their love of God. They are so much in love with Krsna that even they cannot tolerate a moments separation from Him. They know no one but Krsna and Krsna says He knows no one but them. They are in fall ible Krsna says.
Such residents of Vrndavana sometimes come here to this material world but they are not ordinary jivas who are forced to take birth because of karma.
janma karma ca me divyam.
So just as the Lords appearance and activities are divyam so are His devotees.
Devotees are never in the fallen position even in the material world.
Of course here we mean the devotees situated in prema, love of God.
Prema by definition is a love so strong that even if there is every reason that love should break still it will not break.
Such love is eternal and is a manifestation of internal potency , the Lhadhini shakti.
This eternal love is so powerful it attracts Krsna and where there is Krsna there can be no maha maya. So If there is any apparent fall down for a devotee that must be lila and under the control of yoga maya.
So sometimes you may hear of the fall down from Goloka.
Tulisi devi. Sridama gopa, were cursed and fell down.
Lord Narayan was cursed and fell down.
Jaya and Vijaya cursed and fell down.
So where do we hear that someone with love of God can break such love of God.
Even Lord Krsna Himself stated that He is unable to break it.
To enter into Hari dhama on the otherside of the Mahesh dhama you must posses such love of God such as vaikuntha prema, ayodhaya prema, Mathura .Dvaraka orBraja prema.
Without achieving prema you may only go as far as the border.
And if you do not advance to prema from there there is a chance you might fall down due to the offense of neglect of the Lord and his devotees.
Such offense is not possible for prema bhaktas for they are eternally under protection of the internal potency no matter what they do.
Being marginal in nature we conditioned fallen souls are very small and weak.
Even we may raise our self to the spiritual sky by yoga process but if we do not become engaged in pure,favorable devotional service we cannot get the protection of the Lhadhini potency.
We are certainly marginal jiva not like Radha, Krsna and Their direct expansions.
To think we were an eternal associate of Krsna and we fell down is very offensive mayavada philosophy.
a week ago i had water in my right ear and it started to pain. I started to think why, how for what water is there and i am suffering.
With these thoughts i even did not go to the doctor for few days. As a result got fewer and for few more days now suffering out of it.
SO experience i got: why i should waste my time for asking why i got sick? The right thing is to do is immediately start to find solution of getting rid of this pain, isn't it?!
No matter how water entered, but it is already there and i have to take medicine and remove it out there.
Suffering is there. It is reality. This body knows only to give pain nothing else. So we should know that it is not our real position. We are in the body as like in prison. So our goal should be to be free from the prison and be in our original home.
No time to learn how i fall down to this world, our intelligence won't understand many things.
Another example is if person is drowning in the ocean and boat comes and boat man says to come up to the boat but foolish man in the ocean starts to ask: "why and how i fell to this ocean please tell me!" in this way he will be eaten by sharks and finished.
Better to trust to the words of Srila Prabhupada, Guru Parampara and Krishna and go back home. Their word is: There is spiritual world. There is Krishna. And He is our original Mother and Father. And plus Krishna promises that if You come to Me You will never ever return to this dark world.
Your servant,
Bhaktin Maral Ji
Superb answer..Thank you very much prabhu
I must be really foolish
Hare Krsna Sakaray, you have a good point that there is no possibility of material anything in a loving relationship with Krsna in the spiritual sky.
Even a pure devotee in the material world cannot fall down.
But there is the marginal region of Mahesh dham which is situated in the spiritual sky.
There is nothing material there either but many jivas there do not have love of God .
That is also called the brhmajyoti, river viraja, causal ocean and the origin of the jiva from Maha Visnu.
So you were in the spiritual world with Krsna.
But which part and what kind of sport with Krsna are you engaged?
Hare Krsna Mahir, nice quotation from jaiva dharma. definitely correct.
You will find this same conclusion in Srila Prabhupada's books.
Only in conversations with some new devotees did Prabhupada appear to speak something a little different but would never unambiguously say we came from Goloka.
So in preaching we may simplify things so new people can get some faith and avoid doubts.
Just like a mother tells her young child when asked where did I come from.
This is very interesting, however according to the information gathered at the following site, it seems like we can fall from the spiritual world too:
http://www.jswami.info/jiva
Or is this an example of Prabhupada simplifying things?
I am still ignorant in Srila Prabhupada's works (or that of the other acaryas) so I would be honored if you could further explain what Srila Prabhupada means?
Hare Krsna Sakaray, please, please, read Srimad Bhagavatam and purports of my Gurudev Srila Prabhpada. Beware of others who are giving their own speculative opinions. You must follow genuine parampara to get the correct conclusion.
"The conclusion is that no one falls from the spiritual world, or Vaikuntha planet, for it is the eternal abode".
from SB 3.16.26 purport.
Even you study Bhagavad Gita care fully you will find slokas there which give this conclusion.
Unfortunately you may get into useless debates with such speculators on this subject.
So it is better to just seek out like minded peaceful devotees and chant Hare Krsna.
the basic understanding is that we fall down because we have desires to please ourselves. This is usually a very subtle thought, just a split second. But Krsna, being Paramatma, knows this and to please us, he allows us to go to the material world to get a taste of what we desire.
But just look at Krsna's mercy. We made the error, yet he cannot live without us and thus he sends his devotees from the spiritual world to the material world just so they can try to convince you to come back home to Krsna. This reminds me of a little pastime I was reading in the Krsna book. It was Janmastami in Gokul i believe, and Krsna was playing with Balarama and his friends. Mother Rohini comes and tries to bring both the boys back, but their friends tease them by saying that they won't let them play with them next time. So Krsna and Balarama continue to play.
Mother Rohini goes home and Mother Yashoda comes to retrieve the two Lords. At first they still continue to play, but when Mother Yashoda says that Nanda Maharaja is waiting for them to eat lunch, both immediately leave play and come home.
It's like the exact same thing. Krsna is waiting for us in the spiritual world, and he sends his devotees to bring us back. But we are so ignorant that we don't listen and we want to play, even when we are told how dearly Krsna wants us back.
So please chant and remember Krsna constantly. That would at least give Him some peace while we fight our way out this material jungle of snares using the sword of Krsna Consciousness as our guide!
(Note: Of course Krsna doesn't "need - need" us because he is self-satisfying, but to think about Krsna needing us in a devotional sense is one way to help us remember him constantly, please forgive me if I have said anything incorrectly)
Ys,
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