Hare Krishna and thank you Parag for such an elaborate response. I appreciate your response and could not agree more. If I may add, I think that, when interpreted individually, the teachings of BG may be difficult to understand correctly. The best way to interpret this statement of 'women being less intelligent' is to put it into our material (human) context. Today we can clearly see that on material plane of intelligence bodies with male parts are no more and no less intelligent than bodies with female parts... Having chosen Krishna consciousness, again both women and men can be equally intelligent.
So how come then BG stresses this difference? Well, Krishna believe it or not, Krishna is so supreme that he is the only male (higher class) and all of us are lower class (female). Note: this has nothing to do with modern (human) definition of male and female. (Krishna is the only purusha or enjoyer and we are all simply prakriti energy...)
As much as i know there is only one MAN (PARAM PURUSH) and that is our "Kanha" rest all demigods ,goddesses,souls are women so therefore all are less intelligent and the only intelligent one is OUR KRISHNA.So BHAGWATAM IS NOT indicating particularly women (women i.e. Homo sapiens sapiens female species) but to entire soul community as less intelligent in other words KRISHNA=MAN ,SOULS=WOMEN so souls are less intelligent and KRISHNA is alone intelligent .
I understand that at first reading such strong statements in the sastras do bewilder us. But sastras have the duty to present things things as it is without giving consideration of being diplomatic. Further, lets also understand that such statements are not all that the sastras say about women. They give proper respect to them too. A very wonderful illustration is SB 10.23.14 (the pastime of Brahman patnis) which reads as follows:
[Lord Kṛṣṇa said:] Tell the wives of the brāhmaṇas that I have come here with Lord Saṅkarṣaṇa. They will certainly give you all the food you want, for they are most affectionate toward Me and, indeed, with their intelligence reside in Me alone.
In the purport to this verse HDGSP says:
"...They would not heed their husbands’ prohibitions, since they resided within the Lord through their transcendental intelligence."
So we can see that both Lord Krsna and his pure devotee SP have trust in the intelligence of women, when it comes to devotional service.
This pastime is very relevant to your question because it shows the comparative intelligence of brahmanas and their wives, in connection with Krsna. While the brahmanas were quite intelligent in worldly sense and performed vedic sacrifices with complex mantras, their uneducated wives performed simple devotional service to krsna with their intelligence. We all know then whose service pleased Krsna.
One of our sanyasis while commenting on this pastime mentioned that the intelligence of women when purified is far more better than men. In the same lecture he mentioned that however, women need protection because of their natural innocence and lack of physical strength as compared to men.
Also, please take time to go through this version also:
We all jeevatma or living beings are all shakti(part & parcel of Krishna) & HE is shaktiman and our one and only one purpose in this & each life is to serve HIM only.
Because we are prabhuji, thats why. When we accept the authority of the scriptures, we have to accept the full authority. We cannot pick and choose what suits us. Like how human beings are described as the most intelligent class, highest form of life on earth - in that also there is a division, women are lower yoni than men.
Having said that, the good news is that the soul can progress and attain the highest goal of love of Godhead even in this woman yoni. So there is no loss. Women are supposed to be subservient to men and are supposed to serve men. Constantly doing this and being in the background ensures that the false ego gets a good beating all the time, again very good for spiritual progress.
What is the loss prabhuji. The soul has taken human form of life, still has taken the inferior female form - everything is based on karma. So in this birth, we can do such karma (sadhana) that we dont have to take birth again at all - no male, no female.
Haribol,
Your servant,
Rashmi
Amrit Shirodkar > Radha Rasamayi DDOctober 18, 2014 at 11:13am
Dear devotee, inspite of what you have said, why is it that women are good at studies, are sincere in their office work, cook delicious meals & look after the house ? Please note that I am not questioning our scriptures here. I just want to know how they are less intelligent class.
Shravn Prabhu > Amrit ShirodkarJune 24, 2015 at 1:26am
Prabhupada defines intelligence in the Bhagavad-gita. “Intelligence means the ability to discriminate between spirit and matter.”
It has nothing to do with their ability to code in C++, become doctors, scientists etc. All it takes is education.
Women and men still are not equal, because we are biologically different.
“Men and women are different, why? Because a man can’t become pregnant and a woman does.”
However, this doesn't mean women are subordinate:
(quote continues from Dec. 10, 1975 MW): “However, when Caitya-guru took his comments to imply that this difference means that women are subordinate, Prabhupada corrected him. “Not subordinate, actually. Their occupations are different… That is another mistake.” (end quote)
Prabhupada did say on many occasions that “Yes, women are not as intelligent as the men, but when a woman becomes a devotee, then she becomes as intelligent as the man.”(Man, who is also a devotee. Else a devotee woman is more intelligent than a non devotee man.)...
Krishna says ‘stri, sudra and dvija-bandhu’–these classes are all less-intelligent.”
SB 01.04.25 stri-sudra-dvijabandhunam...
"Out of compassion, the great sage thought it wise that this would enable men to achieve the ultimate goal of life. Thus he compiled the great historical narration called the Mahabharata for women, laborers and friends of the twice-born. The friends of the twice-born families are those who are born in the families of brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas and vaiśyas, or the spiritually cultured families, but who themselves are not equal to their forefathers."
Here Prabhupada says that all men are less intelligent who's parents have not gone through spiritual purificatory process. This should put an end to any man thinking, he is superior in intelligence to women.
Prabhupad says, "The purificatory activities begin even before the birth of a child, and the seed-giving reformatory process is called Garbhadhana-samskara. If the father and the mother do not undertake the process of spiritual family planning and simply beget children out of passion only, their children are called dvija-bandhus."
Shravn Prabhu > Amrit ShirodkarJune 24, 2015 at 12:19am
This is a touchy subject, esp. for a lot of women. This also doesn't mean all men are more intelligent. In the Varna-Ashrama (Hindu) system, their are different classes of men, based on their intelligence.
The interviewer was a woman, the cameraman was a woman, all the technical team, they were all women. So they were trying to make a statement. And then they challenged him, “Do you actually think that women are less-intelligent?” They were thinking that now, by the force of their presence, they could make Prabhupada back off. And Prabhupada said “Yes.” (more laughter) They said “Why are you discriminating against women?” And Prabhupada said, “I am not discriminating. Nature has discriminated.”
From Sri Isopanishad Introduction:
“You may call the Vedas Hindu, but “Hindu” is a foreign name. We are not Hindus. Our real identification is varnasrama. Varnasrama denotes the followers of the Vedas, those who accept the human society in eight divisions of varna and asrama. There are four divisions of society and four divisions of spiritual life. This is called varnasrama. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gita (4.13), “These divisions are everywhere because they are created by God.” The divisions of society are brahmana, kshatriya, vaisya, sudra. Brahmana refers to the very intelligent class of men, those who know what is Brahman. Similarly, the kshatriyas, the administrator group, are the next intelligent class of men. Then the vaisyas, the mercantile group. These natural classifications are found everywhere. This is the Vedic principle, and we accept it. Vedic principles are accepted as axiomatic truth, for there cannot be any mistake.”
Replies
So how come then BG stresses this difference? Well, Krishna believe it or not, Krishna is so supreme that he is the only male (higher class) and all of us are lower class (female). Note: this has nothing to do with modern (human) definition of male and female. (Krishna is the only purusha or enjoyer and we are all simply prakriti energy...)
Hari bol and
All Glories to Srila Prabhupad!
Hare Krishna Prabhuji
As much as i know there is only one MAN (PARAM PURUSH) and that is our "Kanha" rest all demigods ,goddesses,souls are women so therefore all are less intelligent and the only intelligent one is OUR KRISHNA.So BHAGWATAM IS NOT indicating particularly women (women i.e. Homo sapiens sapiens female species) but to entire soul community as less intelligent in other words KRISHNA=MAN ,SOULS=WOMEN so souls are less intelligent and KRISHNA is alone intelligent .
Hare Krsna Prabhuji,
PAMHO
AGTSP
I understand that at first reading such strong statements in the sastras do bewilder us. But sastras have the duty to present things things as it is without giving consideration of being diplomatic. Further, lets also understand that such statements are not all that the sastras say about women. They give proper respect to them too. A very wonderful illustration is SB 10.23.14 (the pastime of Brahman patnis) which reads as follows:
[Lord Kṛṣṇa said:] Tell the wives of the brāhmaṇas that I have come here with Lord Saṅkarṣaṇa. They will certainly give you all the food you want, for they are most affectionate toward Me and, indeed, with their intelligence reside in Me alone.
In the purport to this verse HDGSP says:
"...They would not heed their husbands’ prohibitions, since they resided within the Lord through their transcendental intelligence."
So we can see that both Lord Krsna and his pure devotee SP have trust in the intelligence of women, when it comes to devotional service.
This pastime is very relevant to your question because it shows the comparative intelligence of brahmanas and their wives, in connection with Krsna. While the brahmanas were quite intelligent in worldly sense and performed vedic sacrifices with complex mantras, their uneducated wives performed simple devotional service to krsna with their intelligence. We all know then whose service pleased Krsna.
One of our sanyasis while commenting on this pastime mentioned that the intelligence of women when purified is far more better than men. In the same lecture he mentioned that however, women need protection because of their natural innocence and lack of physical strength as compared to men.
Also, please take time to go through this version also:
http://www.thespiritualscientist.com/2012/01/why-are-women-consider...
Dasoasmi
Hare Krsna! prabhuji dandavat
We all jeevatma or living beings are all shakti(part & parcel of Krishna) & HE is shaktiman and our one and only one purpose in this & each life is to serve HIM only.
Your servant
Hare Krsna Prabhuji,
PAMHO.
Because we are prabhuji, thats why. When we accept the authority of the scriptures, we have to accept the full authority. We cannot pick and choose what suits us. Like how human beings are described as the most intelligent class, highest form of life on earth - in that also there is a division, women are lower yoni than men.
Having said that, the good news is that the soul can progress and attain the highest goal of love of Godhead even in this woman yoni. So there is no loss. Women are supposed to be subservient to men and are supposed to serve men. Constantly doing this and being in the background ensures that the false ego gets a good beating all the time, again very good for spiritual progress.
What is the loss prabhuji. The soul has taken human form of life, still has taken the inferior female form - everything is based on karma. So in this birth, we can do such karma (sadhana) that we dont have to take birth again at all - no male, no female.
Haribol,
Your servant,
Rashmi
Prabhupada defines intelligence in the Bhagavad-gita. “Intelligence means the ability to discriminate between spirit and matter.”
It has nothing to do with their ability to code in C++, become doctors, scientists etc. All it takes is education.
Women and men still are not equal, because we are biologically different.
“Men and women are different, why? Because a man can’t become pregnant and a woman does.”
However, this doesn't mean women are subordinate:
(quote continues from Dec. 10, 1975 MW): “However, when Caitya-guru took his comments to imply that this difference means that women are subordinate, Prabhupada corrected him. “Not subordinate, actually. Their occupations are different… That is another mistake.” (end quote)
Prabhupada did say on many occasions that “Yes, women are not as intelligent as the men, but when a woman becomes a devotee, then she becomes as intelligent as the man.”(Man, who is also a devotee. Else a devotee woman is more intelligent than a non devotee man.)...
Krishna says ‘stri, sudra and dvija-bandhu’–these classes are all less-intelligent.”
SB 01.04.25 stri-sudra-dvijabandhunam...
"Out of compassion, the great sage thought it wise that this would enable men to achieve the ultimate goal of life. Thus he compiled the great historical narration called the Mahabharata for women, laborers and friends of the twice-born. The friends of the twice-born families are those who are born in the families of brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas and vaiśyas, or the spiritually cultured families, but who themselves are not equal to their forefathers."
Here Prabhupada says that all men are less intelligent who's parents have not gone through spiritual purificatory process. This should put an end to any man thinking, he is superior in intelligence to women.
Prabhupad says, "The purificatory activities begin even before the birth of a child, and the seed-giving reformatory process is called Garbhadhana-samskara. If the father and the mother do not undertake the process of spiritual family planning and simply beget children out of passion only, their children are called dvija-bandhus."
This is a touchy subject, esp. for a lot of women. This also doesn't mean all men are more intelligent. In the Varna-Ashrama (Hindu) system, their are different classes of men, based on their intelligence.
The interviewer was a woman, the cameraman was a woman, all the technical team, they were all women. So they were trying to make a statement. And then they challenged him, “Do you actually think that women are less-intelligent?” They were thinking that now, by the force of their presence, they could make Prabhupada back off. And Prabhupada said “Yes.” (more laughter) They said “Why are you discriminating against women?” And Prabhupada said, “I am not discriminating. Nature has discriminated.”
From Sri Isopanishad Introduction:
“You may call the Vedas Hindu, but “Hindu” is a foreign name. We are not Hindus. Our real identification is varnasrama. Varnasrama denotes the followers of the Vedas, those who accept the human society in eight divisions of varna and asrama. There are four divisions of society and four divisions of spiritual life. This is called varnasrama. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gita (4.13), “These divisions are everywhere because they are created by God.” The divisions of society are brahmana, kshatriya, vaisya, sudra. Brahmana refers to the very intelligent class of men, those who know what is Brahman. Similarly, the kshatriyas, the administrator group, are the next intelligent class of men. Then the vaisyas, the mercantile group. These natural classifications are found everywhere. This is the Vedic principle, and we accept it. Vedic principles are accepted as axiomatic truth, for there cannot be any mistake.”