Hare Krishna Dandwat pranam to all. I want to know who started this worship of Laddu Gopal. Because I don't think any of our Gaudiya acharya nor Sad Goswamis had worshipped Laddu Gopal. Today sadly I see even many Iskcon devotees worshipping this. Even Raghunandan Acharya had worshipped Radha Gopinath not Laddu Gopal. So I want to know where all this worship of Laddu Gopal started in our vaisnava history and if this is recommended by acharyas and scriptures.
I heard this was recommended by Vallav sampraday but that too was because people don't misinterpret Radha Krishna as ordinary boy girl and gradually develop to the stage of worshipping Radha Krishna. But now a days I see this sentimentally followed even by our sampradaya devotees. Even Iskcon temples even mayapur selling paraphernalia for Laddu Gopal and devotees insisting to keep even Bal Radha with Bal Krishna. Has Srila Prabhupada ever recommended this? I don't know what are all these going on.
Kindly forgive me if any offences. But I wanted to know the exact mood of our vaisnava acharyas and proper worship procedure according to parampara. Because we know our sentiments should always be backed by scriptural recommendation and acharyas. Please help if anyone can clarify me on these things properly.
Replies
Hare Krishna,
"we know our sentiments should always be backed by scriptural recommendation and acharyas."
True. You are indeed true follower of the parampara. These days people are buying laddu gopal and keeping at homes and making many videos and posting all over the internet. They are buying paraphernalia just like as a child buys paraphernalia to a Barbie doll.
Barbie house, Barbie dinning table, Barbie fan, Barbie doll jwellery, Barbie doll's AC, Barbie doll's boy friend Ken, Barbie doll's friends.... Barbie doll's fridge, plates, glasses, spoons, cookware... bathrobe, shower curtain.. bed.. sofa..omg Barbie doll gets so many stuff these days kids play with Barbie doll's as if they are their own friend. They are in their own dreamy world. ( material world).
Now Krishna laddu gopal replaced by Barbie doll... laddu gopal fan, table, chair, AC, laddu gopals. home ( mandir) Ladu gopal's friends.. ( cows, gopis' gopas).......laddu gopal. spoon, plate, bathrobe, night dress, laddu gopal bed, sofa,... offo many things..(Krishna's world mini vrindavan replica). So nice,.. This is all sentiments?? or or just play play ??
or having bhakti In it at all??
whatever done whether it is play play or real real .. also.. if anything done to a barbie... Barbie wont react.. because barbie is lifeless. But our laddu gopal is not barbie. Laddu gopal will react to it. (
)
Anything done to Lord with even 1% love shown in any form... the bond or attachement formed towards Lord Krishna in any form.. Our Lord is not insentient like that Barbie. He will also reciprocate (
) YES OR NO?
Yes. So, instead of arguing it is not there in books.. It is not followed in Parmpara .. Let us say...It is just someone's strong sentiments towards that form.
Secondly, I HEARD NOT SURE but I heard that.
When Devaki and Vasudeva ji were in the Prison and Kamsa was torturing them by killing all their sons. Devaki mata ji one day made a Pratima of laddu gopal form while remembering Little Krishna. She felt sad that I am missing my son He must be crawling now in Nand bhawan.. and Mother yashoda must be giving him Butter and with a butter in hand he must be crawling like this. and She in that mood made this laddu gopal form with laddu material. ( the sweet).
These days none of them have that motherly bhaav for that form.. but they are buying.. so many laddu gopal and creating laddu gopal's mini Vrindavan at homes and posting videos as if they are enjoying playing with a barbie doll. ..Well, I don't find it offensive..
All I know is Barbie doll is insentient.. It will never reciprociate.. But anything done with love without love.... our Lord Krishna will surely reciprocate.
ONE STROY to highlight this fact:-
There was one time a certain person by name Dhanna Jhatt. this person when he was a kid .. he saw some saint a Vaishnava saint doing all paraphernalia to a stone ( Shaligram) and performing devotional service. This kid dhanna also wanted to do the same and asked the saint how to do this service and asked to give him that stone.. Saint understood that the boy is curious but he is not initiated and having no background knowledge of all the rituals ..The saint gave Dhanna a stone ( ordinary stone) and said take this and worship this way get flowers, fruit etc etc.
Now this dhanna jhat was a simpleton a kid he was praying to that stone daily just as told by the saint. This person prayed as if it was real Lord Krishna sitting there. He offered fruits, flowers, roti, applied chandan dhoopa deepa.. etc. and then only he would eat everyday. One day he felt the Lord wont eat..but the stone was eating with the sage? how?? maybe I must put a Pardah then the Lord would not feel shy to eat food and turned his back and sat.. and shouted .. oh Krishna did you eat now. Don't feel shy I am not watching you.. come eat it now. don't do dramas now.. I know you like that saint YOU did eat with him. You should eat when I offer too. That day Lord really came and ate whole plate... Dhanna was happy. This was repeatedly daily and Lord would partake whatever Dhanna offered with Lord even from that stone.
What to say of these people who are having simple sentiments who are not in parampara and not even chanting who are simply doing something.. Ofcourse they are few.. who are show off bhakts they make reels that oh .........my laddu gopal is drinking milk.. I laddu gopal is wearing night dress and ready to go to bed.. daily upadate of laddu gopal...videos.. this is quite funny but still.. Lord Krishna likes all this drama. ye bahut bada dramebaaz hai.
drama logon ko drama mein hi jawab denge. Whatever it is they are doing something for Lord. even if it for getting subscribes or getting money or becomig famous.. Lord will Help.
As we know People come to Lord for 4 things as per BG:-
O best among the Bharatas [Arjuna], four kinds of pious men render devotional service unto Me—the distressed, the desirer of wealth, the inquisitive, and he who is searching for knowledge of the Absolute ( 7.16 BG)
Hare Krishna
Hare Krishna, I agree with you Mataji. Thank you for the detailed reply. This reply clarifies most of the misconceptions. If you can kindly elaborate also on what is the recommended process of worship set by Srila Prabhupada and Parampara acharyas becasue I can see the mood of people worshipping Laddu Gopal is quite different. No doubt their devotion is very high on a personal level with the lord. I am not questioning that. Nor I am againt them worshipping Laddu Gopal becasue lord can always reciprocate according to their mood. My doubt is what should be the exact mood of worship for us in ISKCON as followers of Srila Prabhupada (Brahma Madhwa Gaudiya Sampradaya). As every Sampradaya has a specific mood of worship which differenciates them from the other. Mixing this moods is not a healthy environment. Also my doubt is becasue I don't think prabhupada mentioning worshipper of Laddu Gopal in any of his conversations or books nor recommending anyone to do so.
Hare Krishna Prabhu ji,
You cannot copy other's mood.
Sri Chaitanaya Mahaprabhu was always in the mood of Sri Radharani. His bhava is Madhurya bhava. Superlative highest. Can you copy Lord's mood?
We can follow the footsteps of the goswami's who are none other than Manjari's of Pradhaan Gopi's
Srila Prabhupada's followed the foot steps of Rupa Goswami who is none other than Rupa Manjari. So, all ISKCON devotees or followers of Srila Prabhupada are Rupanugas.
But yes, we cannot always become sakhi or have madhurya bhava which is too high. Not all of us attain these qualifications but it is not impossible also because you are following Srila Prabhupada and final destination of Srila Prabhuapada is the foot dust of Rupa Goswami pada.
Basically you are going to be maid servant of servant of servant of Shri Rupa Manjari.
Depending on your mood you can take different pathways also.
Not a problem.
Just like in Chaitanaya Mahaprabhu's leela also as mentioned by Bharat Prabhu there was a devotee by name Murari Gupta he a staunch devotee of Lord Sri Rama. he was not able to recognize Lord Chaitanaya Mahaprabhu and he didn't understand Krishna. His faith was fixed on one form that is Lord Rama. He was none other than Hunuman. Hanuman will only praise Lord Rama. He cannot understand or recognise Lord in any other form. Chaitanaya Mahaprabhu shows him Lord Rama form to make him understand that HE is only Rama and He is only Krishna and He is only now Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. Each one of us has a affinity for one form of Lord. so. also the moods.
Braj wasi's feel that Krishna as a child. playful and naughty. The main temple of Shri Vrindavan is Shri Banke Bihari laal ji and here the main deity is a child form of Lord. Like a 4-5 yr old kid. They don't even wake the Lord early in the morning. The Braj wasi's get up early clean the temple do all the parapehrnalia ready without making noise. they feel that the child Lord Sri Banke Bihari ji will get disturbed.
If you want to stick to mood of the parampara. Then ISKCON devotees are Rupanugas.
Rupa Goswami ji's deity is there in Rajasthan now. Shree Shree Radha Govind Dev ji .. Look at the darshan
Radha Govind dev ji is the original deity of Shri Rupa Goswami ji now presently located in Jaipur, Rajasthan.
I like HIS sharp nose.
Do you have Sakhi bhava?
Hare Krishna
Hare Krishna Mataji,
Thank you for the detailed explanation. I am really indebted to you for this clarification.
As you said - "So, all ISKCON devotees or followers of Srila Prabhupada are Rupanugas."
Yes I agree that we are not yet qualified to reach the mood of gopis or we cannot artificially imitate that mood. Leaving aside what mood we have the point is - cultivation of a particular mood as per the parampara.
When I say I am a follower of Rupa Goswami and Srila Prabhupada then I must be attracted to this parampara based on the teachings of the parampara not my own sentiments. And per the teachings of our parampara the mood of approaching lord is being the servants of the servants of the servants of the gopis. "gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ".
Yes I appreciate those who have the mood of directly approaching Krishna as Bal Gopal and serving him as their own child or brother. But when we see someone initiated by our parampara and still exhibiting this mood how are we to understand this? Is it not that it defeats the teachings of our entire parampara pertaining to the mood in which one should approach lord? Maybe he didn't understand the entire teachings and attracted just by his sentiments or might be they are highly qualified to approach lord direcy as his associate.
Also I heard in one place that this Bal Gopal worship was recommended by Vallavacharya not as a ultimate goal to be acheived but as a medium to gradually approach the proper mood to understand love of Sri Radha and Krishna. And a medium so that people dont directly misunderstand the love between lord and his consort to be mundane.
Shri Banke Bihari laal ji - Braj wasi's feel that Krishna as a child. playful and naughty. Even he is not in the form of Bal Gopal as people worship in todays day considering lord as one of their own child. Also as prabhupada mentions Krishna performing eternal pastimes in Golaka Vrindavan who is aged eternally as a 16-17 year old boy (Kishor). Obviously age is not applicable to Krishna. Who eternally performs pastimes with his consort Sri Radha. But now a days people are even initiated in ISKCON and insisting to keep Bal Radha with Bal Krishna. Even today shops selling them as toys. What are we supposed to do when we see these things? As you said they are buying paraphernalia just like as a child buys paraphernalia to a Barbie doll
Regarding Murari Gupta - He being an eternal associate of lord it is quite prominent for him to have a specific mood for approaching the lord. But those who are considering Laddu Gopal as their sons or brother they exhibit themselves as eternal associates discarding the importance of reading scriptures or understanding any philosophy. Is that correct?
First of all - It is not proper to go to a shop and buy a deity as per your own sentiments. We should approach Guru for permission even before bringing lord to home and approaching devotees to beg their mercy for lord to manifest through them.
Prabhupada also said we are not Idol worshippers but we are worshippers of Deity and we don't worship any form of the lord that is not authorized by acharyas.How can we claim ourselves to be following the teachings of Parampara in such a case? And if there is no teachings then what is the need of a Parampara?
Lastly - I am not saying one cannot approach lord whatever mood they want but my point is why are they claiming to be followers of Rupa Goswami or Srila Prabhupada when they feel they can directly approach lord in their own mood they have. How are we supposed to act when we see such deviations. Obviously the oly thing we are doing is to Pray to Srila Prabhupada.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
https://iskcondesiretree.com/profiles/blogs/bala-mukundashtakam-1
Mukundaashktam.
Karara vinde padarvindam mukharavinde vinaveshayantam vatasya puthrasya pute sayanam BALAM MUKUNDAM MANASA SMARAMI
Whole brahmanda is in a deluge see who is this little blue baby lying on the banayan leaf is sucking his toe.
Look at this video
lovely scooter for Laddu gopal and the movie song to go along HAHA ( I was saying like this videos are funny) but Lord Krishna will not feel bad. Because, he is dramabaaaz Himself.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Yvgch7Uezpo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QGizaDzaIA
Ye dekho this type of funny things ..they are doing whatever they want to Laddu gopal this is not to be done. But we do have bala mukundashtakam and bala krishna seva.
we do Jansmashtami and little krishna leelas are there in SB even when He was just 6 days old Putana vadh and we do Damodar month ( don't we?)
baby krishna, little krishna kishor avastha krishna.. all Krishna any age any form agreed. But not like laddu gopal ko cinema dekhne jana hai chalo theater, laddu gopal ko sardi lagi chalo chai pelao. Laddu gopal dhoom machale scooter pe jao plastic scooter pe. this is all absurd.
"Lastly - I am not saying one cannot approach lord whatever mood they want but my point is why are they claiming to be followers of Rupa Goswami or Srila Prabhupada when they feel they can directly approach lord in their own mood they have. How are we supposed to act when we see such deviations. Obviously the oly thing we are doing is to Pray to Srila Prabhupada."
DON'T react. better say hmm you are great prabhu ji /mata ji you have attained the bhava stage already and I am still a struggling with chanting 16 rounds regularly. I am in a totally hopless situation. I need your kind blessings so that I also attain my original swaroopa faster ( not mocking at them, but who knows they must be in bhava stage) never never get into judging other's bhakti. Try to save your bhakti. WHEN WE SHOW ONE FINGER AT OTHERS , 3 FINGERS ARE ALREADY POINTING TOWARDS YOU.
Hare Krishna
YES, deity seva is restricted to initiated devotees.. esp. the deity seva and if it is laddu gopala or krishna standing form or any deity should be presented to you by a senior devotee or our intiating guru to start seva. You cannot buy from shop and start opening the parcel and start doing seva. These are some asampradaiyak things going on these days.
But don't condemn them. Me and you cannot judge anyone's bhakti. The judge is only Lord.
Why judge anyone and get into some vaishnava ninda and aparadh. let them enjoy. Lord is happy. He is not saying anything to them.
TO PLACE RADHA KRISHNA VIGRAHAS AT HOME ALSO IS RESTRICTED. Initially only guru maharaj seva along with srila prabhupada seva is allowed for some days.
Then GURU MAHARAJ ONLY ALLOWS NITAAI NIMAAI SEVA after some time when the guru maharaj feels confident that you are able to handle more intense seva... GuRU WILL ALLOW YOU TO TAKE UP JAGAnatha balbadra subadra seva.. Because, Jagannatha ji is open to all and doesn't observe badh bhav. Lastly you get the deities of Shree Krishna and Radha which is highest on the top platform of you ALTAR. Altar should have 3-4 steps.
Shaligram seva is too strict and have to be following regularly with rituals so Not all are given that seva. Only the guru maharaj can handle Shaligram seva and Govardhan giri shila seva.
Now a days all are keeping all. No one is strictly following anything and this is Kaliyuga prabhaav.
Krishna that is why is kind to all in this Yuga.
Yes Mataji I totally agree. This is the only concern I feel when I see even initiated devotees not following the teachings properly. This gives us pain when we see they manifacturing their own process instead of following the acharyas. Therefore education is must in an organization.
I wonder what they as followers of Rupa Goswami would do as all our teachings are based on the worship of Radha and Krishna. As example in ISKCON there is a standard to sing Radha Krishna Prana Mora ... during Sayana aarati. But these people are singinging some lorries niot recommended by any vaisnava acharyas.
Even Brahma ji the prime acharya of our parampara says - "veṇuṁ kvaṇantam aravinda-dalāyatākṣam" so what are the mood we are cultivating as their followers? Or are we satisfying our own sentiments by doing all these?
Has prabhupada mentioned Laddu Gopal in Golaka chart or recommended this process and still they keep om arguing what is right or wrong. Yes as you rightly said we should keep distance and will tell them this.
hmm you are great prabhu ji /mata ji you have attained the bhava stage already and I am still a struggling with chanting 16 rounds regularly. I am in a totally hopless situation. I need your kind blessings so that I also attain my original swaroopa faster.
But deep in heart we feel the pain which I tried to express here. Maybe someone can understand this. Thank you Mataji for all your time and regarding the Gopi Bhav you asked - I never feel myself that qualified. To even approach Gopi Bhav is the highest aspiration I can ever have. I only hope that some day I can be freed of all the anarthas and become a pure devotee and will make myself eligible to serve my Guru Maharaj and Srila Prabhupada eternally in this lifetime. And this is what our acharyas have taught us - "jagāi mādhāi haite muñi se pāpiṣṭha purīṣera kīṭa haite muñi se laghiṣṭha". Please pray for this most fallen soul. Hare Krishna.
Hare Krsna
In addition to what Mataji has added. There are other deities in Iskcon as well
1. Sri Sita Rama Lakshmana Anjaneya deities in Iskcon Juhu , Mumbai
2. Ugra Narasimha deity in Iskcon Mayapur
3. Srinathji deity in Iskcon Chowpatty, Mumbait
4. Sri Venkateshwara Balaji deity in Iskcon NVCC Pune
No past acarya in any vaishnava Sampraday will become sad or fight against worship of any bonafide deity which is different from their deity.
Hare Krsna
Hare Krishna Prabhuji,
These are not the only prominent deities installed by Srila Prabhupada in that temple. Except the first one I dont think there were any other deities installed by Srila Prabhupada himself and those were all installed based on certain specific situation which cannot be generalized. Also the prominent deity in Mumbai is Sri Sri Radha Rasabihariji (Lord Krishna and Radha) whom srila prabhupada promised to install a temple for them. No past acarya in any vaishnava Sampraday will become sad or fight against worship of any bonafide deity which is different from their deity. We cannot go on giving weired logics to support our sentiments. Its just like a meat eater supporting protein theory to justify his eating meat. We are discussing here on whether Laddu Gopal is a bonafide deity recommended by acharyas.
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