Even though this matter has been discussed earlier, i think this topic deserves a page/thread of its own.
After discussing this with IDT members, i came to know that the real karta is Krishna or His shakti maya/prakriti, but due to Krishna's illusory power, we the jivatmas instead think that we are the doers.
Now, if its Krishna or His shakti maya/prakriti who's doing everything and if the soul itself isn't doing anything but simply powering the machine called body then isn't it Krishna or his shakti maya/prakriti who is to be blamed for everything?
I mean, maya/prakriti produces pancha-mahabhutas, which in turn produces the mind and false ego.
So in my opinion its the Lord's shakti maya/prakriti who is to be blamed.
But Gayatri ji yesterday explained to me that its the false ego which is the culprit.
My question is, isn't false ego a product of maya/prakriti?
According to Gayatri ji, all the jivatmas in this universe, are equally gifted with mind and false-ego, from sinners like Hitler... to Saints like Haridas Thakura. Now what we do with this mind and false ego is up to us. And so it is our mind and false ego which is to be blamed. Not the Lord or His shakti maya/prakriti.
My question is, why gift us with a tool in the first place that is inclined towards evil? ... And more importantly a tool which is always under the spell of maya/prakriti's 3 gunas. Because of this spell we are always under the delusion of doership and always performing merits and incurring sins ... and therefore trapped in the cycle of reincarnation. In other words, why did Lord create his maya shakti to entrap the jivatmas in the cycle of reincarnation?
Would love to hear your views. Thank you.
Replies
Hare Krsna
Thank you for revealing your true intent. Any post/question related to impersonalism are discouraged here. Theywill not be tolerated here.
Requesting you not to post anything related to it.
Hare Krsna
Hare Krishna,
I see you are on path of Advaitism. All the best. Be on whatever path you are. believe in it. But don't argue here and promote your Advaita philisophy here.
Here its is purely Achintya abeda Bheda tattva is practised.
So, If you believe in impersonal Brahman concept its okay But don't expect all of us to agree on whatever you feel is right. It may be right for you. As you said there are different paths. So lets respect our boundaries and keep distance.
Don't try to promote here those concepts.
I cannot argue or try to preach more because I know whatever we tell you are not in a recieving position.
So no point in arguing more.
All the best. you can go on your way.
Hare Krishna.
Hare Krsna
Material nature can fulfill any desire.
Hare Krsna
Hare Krsna
Who is responsible for all that's happening around us?
It doesn't matter. Whatever happens around us, the jiva is suffereing due to its own karma.
My question is, why gift us with a tool in the first place that is inclined towards evil?
Because the jiva desired to do evil.
If the jiva doesn't desire to do evil, then jiva can use the same tool- mind to liberate itself by serving Sri Krsna selflessly.
mana eva manuṣyāṇāṁ
kāraṇaṁ bandha-mokṣayoḥ
bandhāya viṣayāsaṅgo
muktyai nirviṣayaṁ manaḥ
“For man, mind is the cause of bondage and mind is the cause of liberation. Mind absorbed in sense objects is the cause of bondage, and mind detached from the sense objects is the cause of liberation.” (Amṛta-bindu Upaniṣad 2)
Most people think the problem is the tool. Mind, intelligence, false ego, modes of nature, senses, sense objects etc are all material. They only act mechanistically under supervision of Krsna. They cannot make a jiva suffer. But the jiva wants to exploit these resources of Krsna for ONE'S OWN ENJOYMENT. That DESIRE IS the PROBLEM
Once the desire has been rectified, then the tool helps the confitioned soul to free themselves. This is very simple thing to uderstand for those who are simple and humble.
Hare Krsna
Yes i understand its desire or lust that drives man to sinful action but why did Lord give us this free will and desire in the first place? He could have kept us in Goloka as his servants for all eternity.
Because he gave us free will and desire, we chose to live independently (away from Krishna) in the material world. If the Lord never created the material world or desire or free will in the first place then there would have been perfect harmony. We would have served him in his Goloka dhama for all eternity.
Lord gives free will and independence because we are His sons and daughters we are all belonging to Him.
Tell me simple thing you mother and father also love you na? why did they allow you to go out of house?
See, If they love you they sure know that outside world is very dangerous and if our son goes outside he might fall into bad company, he might learn bad things, the might meet with some accident or he might engage in illegal stuff. So they should have kept you in cage.
Love means to give freedom.
Whole world brahmanada is Lord's creation .. is there any place where you can hide from HIM. He is constantly watching you like a dear father does gaurding over you, giving you timely advices, sometimes helping you indirectly sending someone for help. So, Lord is more caring then you material father mother. He know even if you fall into bad things and do bad, ultimetely some day you will realize on your own.
See, If I say to my child, hey dont touch that fire. It will burn. my child may listen to me with fear that mother might be unhappy if i touch,, but he didn't experience the pain of fire so, he only feels , this mother is telling me not to touch the fire, someday he will surely break the rule and hide and touch it and see. His desire to touch the fire when completed, he got the lesson oh that is why mother said not to touch. Now he will come back to mother and says sorry mother, eventhough you told me not to touch, I wanted to experience it. I understand now why you made that rule not to touch the fire. Now the child came back after learning a lesson in a reformed state.
previously he was just thinking how cruel mother is, or how dominating she is she puts rules and we have to follow like servants. This time when he had a practical lesson. He is totally surrendered to the mother with no doubts.
Anyway Lord is sitting right in the heart region. He is always watching over you. No fear.
Hare Krishna.
Lord gives free will and independence because we are His sons and daughters we are all belonging to Him.
Its really strange isn't it ... Our father, on hand, gives free will to his children and on the other hand, punishes his children by throwing them into hell, in boiling hot oil.
Hare Krishna Prabhu ji!
prabhu ji, can you love someone without free will? if someone is holding a gun on your head and is asking you to love him/her, you might say that you love him/her (to save your life) but that's not real love! Lord Krishna gives us free will so that we can truly love him, but that doesn't mean we misuse it! many do... I know. but we know this matter so atleast we shouldn't misuse our free will
Hare Krishna
Hare Krsna
No, not strange. Because only sinful people are thrown in hell. What's your point ?
Hare Krsna
Hare Krsna
Why did Lord give us this free will and desire in the first place?
To love an serve Krsna.
He could have kept us in Goloka as his servants for all eternity.
He does keep His servants etenally in Spiritual world, even now there are trillions of devotees serving Krsna in SPiritual world. We can also join there. We are in material world because of our desire to Enjoy separately from Krsna. Krsna has NOT given us the desire to enjoy separate from him. We have developed that desire out of our own free will.
Even now we can rectify ourselves and desire to serve Krsna for His enjoyment and Go back to spiritual world for rest of eternity.
Because he gave us free will and desire, we chose to live independently (away from Krishna) in the material world.
No. This is incorrect. We are in material world because of misuse of free will. There is free will for devotees who are in spiritual world. - Prahalad maharaj, Yashoda mayi, Hanuman, Naraa muni all have free will. They are rightly using that free will. Free will is not cause of our independent mentality. MISUSE OF FREE is the causes jiva to suffer in material world
Jiva has to take responsibility of misuse of Free will. There is not point in going round an round about the same thing. We chose to be in material world. We can choose to be in spiritual world. Without free will, jiva will be no different than matter. We have free will and will always have free will. Only question is how we use it.
If the Lord never created the material world or desire or free will in the first place then there would have been perfect harmony.
This is absurd. There is perfect harmony even now. We have chosen to be in chaos. But we can correct ourselves. it is better to focus on that than trying to blame something/everything else.
Hare Krsna
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