Even though this matter has been discussed earlier, i think this topic deserves a page/thread of its own.

After discussing this with IDT members, i came to know that the real karta is Krishna or His shakti maya/prakriti, but due to Krishna's illusory power, we the jivatmas instead think that we are the doers. 

Now, if its Krishna or His shakti maya/prakriti who's doing everything and if the soul itself isn't doing anything but simply powering the machine called body then isn't it Krishna or his shakti maya/prakriti who is to be blamed for everything? 

I mean, maya/prakriti produces pancha-mahabhutas, which in turn produces the mind and false ego.

So in my opinion its the Lord's shakti maya/prakriti who is to be blamed.

But Gayatri ji yesterday explained to me that its the false ego which is the culprit.

My question is, isn't false ego a product of maya/prakriti?

According to Gayatri ji, all the jivatmas in this universe, are equally gifted with mind and false-ego, from sinners like Hitler... to Saints like Haridas Thakura. Now what we do with this mind and false ego is up to us. And so it is our mind and false ego which is to be blamed. Not the Lord or His shakti maya/prakriti.

My question is, why gift us with a tool in the first place that is inclined towards evil? ... And more importantly a tool which is always under the spell of maya/prakriti's 3 gunas. Because of this spell we are always under the delusion of doership and always performing merits and incurring sins ... and therefore trapped in the cycle of reincarnation. In other words, why did Lord create his maya shakti to entrap the jivatmas in the cycle of reincarnation?

Would love to hear your views. Thank you. 

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        • Not everyone likes singing and dancing. That includes me ;-) I wish there was a heaven in our religion where people would rather attend serious lectures or rather be absorbed in deep meditation, without any disturbance and noise that usually comes from songs and music. Just saying.

          • Gyan marg ( Mayavaadi ) only follow can max. get to only Brahma jyoti. 

            Pride of knoweldge is only a hinderance to progress in bhakti at a point and there is surely a falling down again ...Its okay you will come back again to Earth and learn what is Krishna prema and it is just going to make ur journey to goloka a little late thats all.


            • Hello, Gayatri ji. This is going to be a long post. I request you to read with patience. Thank you.

              Iskcon people say there is falling down again from brahmajyoti but they also admit that there is falling down from Goloka as well for liberated souls, when the thought arises in their mind "that i shall not serve krishna anymore and would like to live independently" ... isn't it so Gayatri ji? I read this many years ago in some hare krishna article. Don't have the link to that article. But you can always google it. Google is our friend :)


              Also If i'm not mistaken, iskcon people say that brahmajyoti is inferior to Krishna's two handed form. Merging into brahmajyoti is also inferior compared to spending time in Goloka. Isn't this what iskcon say? :)

              But the learned non-dualist sages (like Ramakrishna, Ramana Maharshi, Nisargadatta Maharaj, Shankaracharya) they all say that brahman or brahmajyoti is the background of everything. Its the source of everything. And that everything appears and dissapears within its infinite body of light. Just like waves rises and merges back into the ocean, same way jivas and jagat manifests and demanifests within this infinite field of Brahman. 

              Now you tell me Gayatri ji who is correct, the iskcon people or the non-dualists? ... Well, in my humble opinion, no one is wrong. Each has their own path to attain nirvana. Some prefer idol worship, bhakti, singing and dancing ... while others prefer gyan and meditation. Both the bhakta and gyani reaches his preferred destination.

              The bhaktaas spends time with Krishna in goloka which is also liberation, and from there souls again fall down to material world when the thought arises in their head to live independently ... And the non-dualists also attain liberation by merging into brahman, and lose their individual identity... But if the need arises this infinite brahman or brahmajyoti again assumes the forms of mortal individuals and comes down into material world.

              I like Krishna, don't get me wrong but I prefer the path of the gyaanis :) The iskcon people may call it mayavada, but many liberated non-dualist sages (Ramakrishna, Ramana Maharshi) don't call it mayavada because its just another path (different from the bhaktaas) to attain moksha. :)

              Krishna mentioned about the impersonalist gyaanis in the gita. He never said that their path is mayavadi / false / bogus. He never showed any discrimination towards the gyaanis. He even explained to Arjuna about the various ashtanga meditation practices in Gita. What im trying to say is, Krishna never said their path is false, since everyone is his children ... But yes, its true that Krishna instead said that the path of bhakti is the easiest. 

              Jai sree krishna. Peace out :)


              • Sevak

                Hare Krsna

                Thank you for revealing your true intent. Any post/question related to impersonalism are discouraged here. Theywill not be tolerated here.

                Requesting you not to post anything related to it.

                Hare Krsna

              • Hare Krishna,

                I see you are on path of  Advaitism. All the best. Be on whatever path you are. believe in it. But don't argue here and promote your Advaita philisophy here.

                Here its is purely Achintya abeda Bheda tattva is practised.

                So, If you believe in impersonal Brahman concept its okay But don't expect all of us to agree on whatever you feel is right. It may be right for you. As you said there are different paths.  So lets respect our boundaries and keep distance.

                Don't try to promote here those concepts. 

                I cannot argue or try to preach more because I know whatever we tell you are not in a recieving position.

                So no point in arguing more.

                All the best. you can go on your way. 

                Hare Krishna.

          • Sevak

            Hare Krsna 

            Material nature can fulfill any desire. 

            Hare Krsna

  • Sevak

    Hare Krsna

    Who is responsible for all that's happening around us?

    It doesn't matter. Whatever happens around us, the jiva is suffereing due to its own karma. 

    My question is, why gift us with a tool in the first place that is inclined towards evil?

    Because the jiva desired to do evil. 

    If the jiva doesn't desire to do evil, then jiva can use the same tool- mind to liberate itself by serving Sri Krsna selflessly. 

    mana eva manuṣyāṇāṁ
    kāraṇaṁ bandha-mokṣayoḥ
    bandhāya viṣayāsaṅgo
    muktyai nirviṣayaṁ manaḥ

    “For man, mind is the cause of bondage and mind is the cause of liberation. Mind absorbed in sense objects is the cause of bondage, and mind detached from the sense objects is the cause of liberation.” (Amṛta-bindu Upaniṣad 2)

    Most people think the problem is the tool. Mind, intelligence, false ego, modes of nature, senses, sense objects etc are all material. They only act mechanistically under supervision of Krsna. They cannot make a jiva suffer. But the jiva wants to exploit these resources of Krsna for ONE'S OWN ENJOYMENT. That DESIRE IS the PROBLEM

    Once the desire has been rectified, then the tool helps the confitioned soul to free themselves. This is very simple thing to uderstand for those who are simple and humble. 

    Hare Krsna

    • Yes i understand its desire or lust that drives man to sinful action but why did Lord give us this free will and desire in the first place? He could have kept us in Goloka as his servants for all eternity.

      Because he gave us free will and desire, we chose to live independently (away from Krishna) in the material world. If the Lord never created the material world or desire or free will in the first place then there would have been perfect harmony. We would have served him in his Goloka dhama for all eternity.

      • Lord gives free will and independence because we are His sons and daughters we are all belonging to Him.

        Tell me simple thing you mother and father also love you na? why did they allow you to go out of house?

        See, If they love you they sure know that outside world is very dangerous and if our son goes outside he might fall into bad company, he might learn bad things, the might meet with some accident or he might engage in illegal stuff. So  they should have kept you in cage.

        Love means to give freedom. 

        Whole world brahmanada is Lord's creation .. is there any place where you can hide from HIM. He is constantly watching you like a dear father does gaurding over you, giving you timely advices, sometimes helping you indirectly sending someone for help. So, Lord is more caring then you material father mother. He know even if you fall into bad things and do bad, ultimetely some day you will realize on your own.

        See, If I say to my child, hey dont touch that fire. It will burn. my child may listen to me with fear that mother might be unhappy if i touch,, but he didn't experience the pain of fire so, he only feels , this mother is telling me not to touch the fire, someday he will surely break the rule and hide and touch it and see. His desire to touch the fire when completed, he got the lesson oh that is why mother said not to touch. Now he will come back to mother and says sorry mother, eventhough you told me not to touch, I wanted to experience it. I understand now why you made that rule not to touch the fire. Now the child came back after learning a lesson in a reformed state.

        previously he was just thinking how cruel mother is, or how dominating she is she puts rules and we have to follow like servants. This time when he had a practical lesson. He is totally surrendered to the mother with no doubts.

        Anyway Lord is sitting right in the heart region. He is always watching over you. No fear.

        Hare Krishna.

        • Lord gives free will and independence because we are His sons and daughters we are all belonging to Him.

          Its really strange isn't it ... Our father, on hand, gives free will to his children and on the other hand, punishes his children by throwing them into hell, in boiling hot oil.

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