Hare Krishna,
Please accept my humble obeisances dear devotees,
Who is the real guru whom we accept as our spiritual master?
Difference between diksha guru and siksha guru?
Why many diksha gurus of ISKCON fell down?
What to do if your spiritual master also falls down?
Is Srila Prabhupada our only guru?
Ritwik system of initiation?
Replies
Hare Krsna
Who is the real guru whom we accept as our spiritual master?
A devotee and a disciple whom Krsna and guru consider as fit to perfectly guide and deliver conditioned souls is qualified to be a bonafide guru. First the Supreme personality of godhead made 4 set of his devotees as guru - Lord Brahma, Lord Shiva, Mother Lakshmi and Four Kumaras. As time progressed these acaryas made other disciples and gurus. This is disciplic success or guru shishya parampara
Difference between diksha guru and siksha guru
Siksha guru offers transcendental knowledge about spiritual subject matters. Diksha guru in addition to the above takes responsibility of enagging the disciple in devotional service and takes responsibility of delivering the sincere disciple back home back to godhead.
Why many diksha gurus of ISKCON fell down?
Practice of Bhakti is declaring war against material energy. Material energy is as powerful as Krsna. Unless one has taken complete shelter of Krsna, there are chances of being swayed by maya. So falling down is lying dying in battlefield . In war there will be casualties. But there is Krsna's assurance in BG
daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī
mama māyā duratyayā
mām eva ye prapadyante
māyām etāṁ taranti te
This divine energy of Mine, consisting of the three modes of material nature, is difficult to overcome. But those who have surrendered unto Me can easily cross beyond it. BG7.14
What to do if your spiritual master also falls down?
Please discuss with your senior god brothers
Is Srila Prabhupada our only guru?
No, this mentality of exclusiveness is a contamination that has creeped from western countries/ religions. They say their religion is the only religion, their god is the only god out of false ego. Similarly saying Prabhupada is the only guru is the same mentality due to false ego and ignorance. There is no scriptural basis for this.
Ritwik system of initiation?
Question not clear, but whatever it is the answer is that this method is not bonafide according to any vaishnava scripture, it is not approved by siddhanta, it has no basis.
Hare Krsna
The ritviks do not believe in disciplic succession or the parampara. They are a messianic cult and 100% bogus.
By saying there are no pure devotees, to become guru, they are actually saying Srila Prabhupada made no pure devotees – which means his mission was a total failure. I do not believe this is true, and if it is true… why follow Prabhupada?
You need a personal relationship with your guru to make spiritual advancement. It is too late to have a personal relation with Srila Prabhupada. We have his books, lectures, videos etc. So he can, and should be, your siksa guru. Prabhupada is the pre-eminent siksa guru for all of ISKCON.
Yes prabhuji I agree with your point.
But still why some gurus fell down?
If they were pure? This is a problem because if someone gets initiated and their guru falls down, they are finished in spiritual life.
Please tell Hare Krishna
Hare Krsna
If someone gets initiated and their guru falls down, they are finished in spiritual life.
No, this is not true. If someone's guru falls down, that guru's spiritual life is also not finished, what to speak of disciple's spiritual life.
Material energy is very strong, there could be set backs at any point of time. Whatever the case be, one can again start their spiritual life and continue the journey by sincerely taking shelter of Krsna's holy names. There is no restriction on chanting of Holy names of Krsna.
If guru falls down and disciple has not done any act which is deviant, then spiritual progress of the disciple is not hindered at all. Certainly there will be mental disturbance but it is not spiritual disturbance. Because we are not practicing guru bhakti, we are practicing Krsna consciousness or bhakti to Krsna. Krsna is eternal and perfect. The process of Krsna consciousness is eternal and perfect. The progress in Krsna consciousness though guided by spiritual master is not restricted or constrained by limitations of spiritual master.
There is an example to illustrate this. Just like King Parikshit got liberated by hearing of Srimad Bhagavatam by his guru Shukadev Goswami, there was another person Dundukaari who was very sinful and became ghost after being killed. Ghost of Dundukaari heard Srimad Bhagavatm for 7 days from his pious brother Gokarna. After 7 days Ghost Dundukaari was liberated and got form of Vishnuduta and ascended to spiritual world. Gokarna was surprised he was reciter of Bhagavatam and many others also heard Bhagavatam why they all were not liberated. For this Vishnudutas said that Dundukaari very attentively heard, meditated and was 100% absorbed in Srimad Bhagavatam without caring for hunger and thrist. So in this case although the reciter of Bhagavatam was not immediately liberated, the disciple or listener was liberated immediately. This goes to show that spiritual progress cannot be restricted even by Guru, provided the disciple is sincerely practicing Krsna consciousness and taking shelter of Krsna in the form of spiritual sound vibration of Hari nama and Hari Katha.
Having said that Srila Prabhupada has given the following warning in Nectar of Instruction Verse 5 purport
One should not become a spiritual master unless he has attained the platform of uttama-adhikārī. A neophyte Vaiṣṇava or a Vaiṣṇava situated on the intermediate platform can also accept disciples, but such disciples must be on the same platform, and it should be understood that they cannot advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life under his insufficient guidance. Therefore a disciple should be careful to accept an uttama-adhikārī as a spiritual master.
So what we can understand is that a disciple should be extremely careful in selecting their spiritual master. After accepting initiation from a guru, disciple should sincerely practice Krsna Consciousness by chanting the Hare Krsna Mahamantra. If there is any deviation of guru from it is not end of their spiritual life, they should seek guidance and continue practice of Krsna consciousness. Krsna will definitely give them proper guidance from within.
Hare Krsna
Hare Krsna
Another example comes to my mind. When Indra king of heaven was envious of Krsna for worshipping Govardhan, he sent Samvartaka clouds to destroy Vrindavan. Here Indra made a mistake of not recognising supremacy of Krsna and went against Krsna. The samvartaka clouds were not at fault because they were just following instructions of Indra who was their King. Krsna was very displeased with Indra, but Krsna wasn't displeased with Samvartaka clouds (who is also person like surya chandra etc). This is not a devotional example, but goes to show how amazing Krsna is.
Coming to our example if a guru deviates from Bhakti, Krsna would never give up the sincere disciples of that guru. He will eventually ensure that the guru also comes back to path of Bhakti, just as Krsna granted forgiveness to Indra.
Hare Krsna