Hare Krishna! All Glories To Srila Prabhupada!I am very poor of Vedic knowledge so, I would like to apologise beforehand if something I mention later are not right.I understand that we, Gaudiya Vaishnavas treat Krishna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead and Lord Vishnu as His expansion. I also somewhat understand that we accept that Krishna who appeared in the Dwapara Yuga as the same Krishna who exists in the highest spiritual realm by quoting that the Supreme Personality of Godhead appeared on Earth in His original form in the previous yuga.My question is, why do Sri Vaishnavas do not accept this and instead they say that Lord Sriman Narayana is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and Krishna is just another incarnation of Lord Vishnu? It is also written that Lord Vishnu's name is mentioned about 93 times in the Rig Veda. However, there happens to be no mention of Krishna's name in any Vedas(as far as I am aware of). Please shed some light in this matter.My next question is, why do we accept Goloka Vrindavana as the highest of the spiritual planets while the Sri Vaishnavas accept Vaikunthaloka as the highest one? Why such contradiction exist?Also, I am aware that Srimati Radhika's name is not mentioned in the Srimad Bhagavatam directly but indirectly through the word 'anayaraditah'. Somewhere on the net, someone has written the 'gaudiya vaishnava CULT' has invented Radharani. I know that this is not right. How to refute this statement?These are my questions for now.Hare Krishna.Your servant of the servant of the servant,Bhaktin Sandhya
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Krsna who is known as Govinda is the Supreme Godhead. He has an eternal blissful spiritual body. He is the origin of all. He has no other origin and He is the prime cause of all causes.(Brahma Samhita 5.1)
dipaarcir eva hi dashaantaram abhyupetya dipaayate vivrta-hetu-samaana-dharmaa yas taadrg eva hi ca vishnutayaa vibhaati Govindam aadi-purusham tam aham bhajaami
The light of one candle being communicated to other candles, although it burns separately in them, is the same in its quality. I adore the primeval Lord Govinda who exhibits Himself equally in the same mobile manner in His various manifestations.(Brahma Samhita 5.46)
These two verses are taken from Brahma samhita which was present in Adi Kesava - Visnu temple in Kerala, which comes under Sri Sampradaya. All the Vishnu Murti's like Narasimha, Varaha, Vamana, Balaji etc are Bhagavan or Supreme personality of Godhead. Here Lord Brahma gives example of a candle .Each personal form Bhagavan can be understood to be like a candle. All candles are of equal brightness with none being greater or lesser than the other. But Brahma describes Krsna or Govinda as aadi purusam or the original Purusha which can be understood to be the source.
Why do Sri Vaishnavas do not accept this ? -> Not correct
Each sampradaya follow their predecessor acaryas. All acaryas accept Krsna as Supreme personality of godhead because it is clearly indicated in Bhagavad Gita. None of sampradaya/acarya say or follow anything contradictory to Bhagavad Gita. All sampradayas consider BG undoubtedly as a must read literature.
Many many Sri Vaishnavas have glorified Krsna like anything. King Kulasekara Alvar who is incarnatation of Kaustubha gem from the chest of Lord Vishnu has Glorified Krsna in mukunda mala stotra
Krsna being considered as incarnation of Vishnu is not incorrect because in every dvapara yuga there is incarnation of Vishnu who appears as Vaasudeva. But there is one dvapara yuga out of 1000 dvapara yuga where the incarnation of Vishnu doesnt appear but original Krsna from Goloka appears Himself.
Why do we accept Goloka Vrindavana as the highest of the spiritual planets when Sri Vaishnavas consider Vaikuntha as highest ?
Sri Vaishnavas consider Vaikuntha as the highest abode. But there are many vaikuntha planets. Goloka is also one of the vaikuntha planet. So both Sri Vaishnavas and Gaudiya vaishnavas are right.
Why Goloka is the highest of Vaikuntha planets ?
There is reference for this in Brahma samhita.
goloka-naamni nija-dhaamni tale ca tasya devi mahesha-hari-dhaamasu teshu teshu te te prabhaava-nicayaa vihitaash ca yena govindam aadi-purusham tam aham bhajaami
Lowest of all is located Devi-dhama [mundane world], next above it is Mahesa-dhama [abode of Mahesa]; above Mahesa-dhama is placed Hari-dhama [abode of Hari] and above them all is located Krishna's own realm named Goloka. I adore the primeval Lord Govinda, who has allotted their respective authorities to the rulers of those graded realms. (Brahma Samhita 5.43)
Somewhere on the net, someone has written something How to refute it ?
Anyone can write anything on internet. Nobody needs to refute it. One only needs to reject it. When one wants to practice devotional service, they take shelter of literature given by acaryas. Rest all writings can be safely preserved in garbage bin and not one's mind or intelligence.
Mentioning of Radha in literature
The name "Radha" does not directly appear in the Srimad Bhagavatam. So what.. there are many other literature which describe about radha - Gopala Tapani Upanisad, Rg Veda Parisista, Paippalada Samhita, Purusa-bodhini Sruti, Purusottama Tapini etc. Not to mention the literature left by Gosvamis of Vrindavan and their followers.
Worship of Radharani was also criticized by some less informed persons known as Ramananadis. Ramanandis were defeated by Baladeva Vidyabhushan. This link describes it. But even Ramanandis did not question the existence of Radha. Nobody can do that.
Ya, on internet they can try to mislead people but then people who are already misled only go to internet for learning about bhakti.
people say That Devatas went to Lord Vishnu, who later incarnated as Lord Rāma as per Valmiki Ramayana, but this can be interpreted in another way! As per 2.44 of valmiki Ramayana, Lord Rama is प्रभोः प्रभोः i.e he is the Prabhu of even the Prabhu and God of all Gods i.e He is Mahavishnu of all Vishnus. The Ramayana mahaymaya 1.3 found in skanda puran says ब्रह्मविष्णुमहेशाद्या यस्यांशा i.e Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesa are Anshas of Lord Rama! Doesn't ends here, The Uttarkanda VR 7.104.9 of Same valmiki Ramayana says that It was Lord Rama who assumed the form of Vishnu in the beginning of the universe as ततस्त्वमसि दुर्धर्षात्तस्माद् भावात् सनातनात् । रक्षार्थं सर्वभूतानां विष्णुत्वं उपजग्मिवान् ॥ ~ Oh sri Rama! At my prayers and For the sake of protection of the universe, you Left your eternal form and assumed the form of Vishnu. further, Valmiki Ramayana Yuddha kanda sarga 117 seals the fact, by hailing him as the First creator, Swyam prabhu, Krsna, Vishnu, varaha, Vaman, Purusha and so on as त्रयाणामपि लोकानामादिकर्ता स्वयं प्रभुः ~ O’ Śrī Rāma ! You are the first creator of all the three words, and the Svayam-Prabhu [8] भवान्नारायणो देवः श्रीमांश्चक्रायुधः प्रभुः ~ O’ Śrī Rāma ! You are the glorious Lord Shriman Nārāyaṇa, who wields discus (chakra) [6.117.13] , एकशृङ्गो वराहस्त्वं भूतभव्यसपत्नजित् ~ O’ Śrī Rāma ! You are the Divine Boar Shri Varaha-deva with a single tusk, You are the conqueror of your past and future enemies [6.117.14] शार्ङ्गधन्वा हृषीकेशः पुरुषः पुरुषोत्तमः ॥ अजितः खड्गधृग्विष्णुः कृष्णश्चैव महाबलः । ~ You are the wielder of a bow called Sarnga, the lord of the senses - Hrishikesha, the supreme soul of the universe - puruṣa, the best of men - puruṣōttama, the invincible one, the wielder of a sword named Nandaka, the all-pervader - Vishṇu, and the all-attractor - (Therefore renowned as) Krishna and the one endowed with great might.” [15-16] प्रभवश्चाप्ययश्च त्वमुपेन्द्रो मधुसूदनः “O’ Śrī Rāma ! You are the origin and the dissolution of all. You are Upendra the Divine Dwarf Vamana deva (the younger brother of Indra) and also the destroyer Madhu, the demon.” (17) सीता लक्ष्मीर्भवान् विष्णुर्देवः कृष्णः प्रजापतिः~ O’ Śrī Rāma ! Sītā is Lakshmi, and You are Vishṇu, You are Krishna and Prajapati [28]. Lord Rama is the पुराणं पुरुषोत्तमम् (32) i.e the oldest purusha or the Adi purusha as per lord Brahma, means Lord Rama is the original form the Lord. King dasratha seals the fact by saying that Lord Rama is indeed पुरुषोत्तमम् in 6.119 twice and the Supreme akshar brahman, who is the innerself of all Gods as per vedas i.e एतत्तदुक्तमव्यक्तमक्षरं ब्रह्मनिर्मितम्. Therefore, From the Valmiki Ramayana it is clear that It was Lord Rama only, who is the primordial form of Bhagvana, who gave Darshan to the devas, as Lord Vishnu. This is supported by Other scriptures too, including Hanuman samhita 7.78 सर्वेषाम् अवतारानाम् अवतारी रघुत्तम (Lord Rama is the Original avatari of all avatars), Agastya samhita chapter 5 यथा सर्वावताराणामवतारी रघूत्तम ~ Lord Rama is the avatari of All avatars, Adi Ramayana 4.24.22 अवतारांस्तथा सर्वाश्चतुर्विशदशादिभिः ~ Lord Rama is the source of all 24 and 10 incarnations, Adi Ramayana 1.9.18 एते चांशकलाश्चैव रामस्तु भगवान् स्वयम् ~ All incarnations are Portions or kalas, but Rama is swyam bhagvana, Brihad brahma samhita 2.7.8 वासुदेवादि मुर्तिनाम् चतुर्नाम् कारणं परम् चतुर्विंशति मुर्तिनाम् आश्रय श्रीरामः शरणं मम i.e The supreme cause of the four vyuhas, such as Vasudeva. Sri Rama, the shelter of the twenty-four avtars, is my refuge and so on. Srimad bhagvatam 2.7.23 Calls lord Rama, the Lord with all qualities, the Lord with kalas and Refers him as the Adi Purusha twice. Not only this, Padma Samhita Mentions the fact that the original form of Hari, is with two hands, carrying bow and arrow. In sri Rama geeta, Lord Rama mentions Vishnu to be his incarnation and him to be above tridevas, even in rama rahasya upanishad, which says Vasudeva, narasimha, narayana are parts of Rama, which is completely in line with all the scriptures.
Just one correction - Ramanandis are worshippers of Lord Rama. They worship Sita-Rama. The issue raised by them was that RadhaKrsna were not married. Baladeva Vidyabhushan established it is bonafide to worship Radha Krishna.
Hare krishna Bharat prabhu....All glories to you...around one year back, i had a indepth debate with a person from Ramanandi sampradaya...their website is www.lordrama.co.in
Although they establish lord ramachandra as the supreme person....they severely offend krishna and gaudiya vaishnavas ...its continuing still....I also mentioned garga samhita etc....no use...hence i stopped discussing these aspects...Anyway.....your reply was wonderful....
yours humble servant
Lord Rama (श्रीराम)
The prince Charming of Ayodhya, Lord Rama is the supreme god in Hinduism. Lord Rama is the most superior, known as Purusa or Purushottama in Veda-s.…
Vishal Pandey > Nityananda RamaJune 5, 2022 at 3:50pm
I am a Ramanandi. If any Ramanandi criticize Lord Krishna and any Vaishnava Sect then he is not true Ramanandi. We consider Rama and Krishna to be on Same Level. You people differentiate between Ram ji and Krishna by Saying That Lord Ramachandra is just an incarnation of Krishna. Fir this you just have the proofs from Brahm Samhita which is also suspected one. But i can produce thousands of proofs for establishing the equality of Shri Rama and Krishna.
If any Ramanandi criticize Lord Krishna and any Vaishnava Sect then he is not true Ramanandi.
The above is a very true statement. Any true vaishnava who does not accept any form of Supreme Lord Vishnu is not a very advanced in knowledge.
Both Lord Rama and Lord Krsna are Supreme Personality of Godhead. The Iskcon temple where Srila Prabhupada spent the most amount of time is Iskcon Juhu and Iskcon Juhu has very beautiful deities of Sri Sri Sita Rama Lakshmana Hanuman. Nobody can minimize position of Lord Rama.
Replies
Its actually Balarama who is the source of all incarnations in this universe.
Hare Krishna!
Thank you Bharat prabhu for your illuminating reply.
Sincerely,
Bhaktin Sandhya
Hare Krsna
There is no contradictions between any of the four bonafide sampradayas
Scriptural reference for asserting that Krsna is original incarnation
ishvarah paramah krshnah
sac-cid-aananda-vigrahah
anaadir aadir govindah
sarva-kaarana-kaaranam
Krsna who is known as Govinda is the Supreme Godhead. He has an eternal blissful spiritual body. He is the origin of all. He has no other origin and He is the prime cause of all causes.(Brahma Samhita 5.1)
dipaarcir eva hi dashaantaram abhyupetya
dipaayate vivrta-hetu-samaana-dharmaa
yas taadrg eva hi ca vishnutayaa vibhaati
Govindam aadi-purusham tam aham bhajaami
The light of one candle being communicated to other candles, although it burns separately in them, is the same in its quality. I adore the primeval Lord Govinda who exhibits Himself equally in the same mobile manner in His various manifestations.(Brahma Samhita 5.46)
These two verses are taken from Brahma samhita which was present in Adi Kesava - Visnu temple in Kerala, which comes under Sri Sampradaya. All the Vishnu Murti's like Narasimha, Varaha, Vamana, Balaji etc are Bhagavan or Supreme personality of Godhead. Here Lord Brahma gives example of a candle .Each personal form Bhagavan can be understood to be like a candle. All candles are of equal brightness with none being greater or lesser than the other. But Brahma describes Krsna or Govinda as aadi purusam or the original Purusha which can be understood to be the source.
Why do Sri Vaishnavas do not accept this ? -> Not correct
Each sampradaya follow their predecessor acaryas. All acaryas accept Krsna as Supreme personality of godhead because it is clearly indicated in Bhagavad Gita. None of sampradaya/acarya say or follow anything contradictory to Bhagavad Gita. All sampradayas consider BG undoubtedly as a must read literature.
Many many Sri Vaishnavas have glorified Krsna like anything. King Kulasekara Alvar who is incarnatation of Kaustubha gem from the chest of Lord Vishnu has Glorified Krsna in mukunda mala stotra
Krsna being considered as incarnation of Vishnu is not incorrect because in every dvapara yuga there is incarnation of Vishnu who appears as Vaasudeva. But there is one dvapara yuga out of 1000 dvapara yuga where the incarnation of Vishnu doesnt appear but original Krsna from Goloka appears Himself.
Why do we accept Goloka Vrindavana as the highest of the spiritual planets when Sri Vaishnavas consider Vaikuntha as highest ?
Sri Vaishnavas consider Vaikuntha as the highest abode. But there are many vaikuntha planets. Goloka is also one of the vaikuntha planet. So both Sri Vaishnavas and Gaudiya vaishnavas are right.
Why Goloka is the highest of Vaikuntha planets ?
There is reference for this in Brahma samhita.
goloka-naamni nija-dhaamni tale ca tasya
devi mahesha-hari-dhaamasu teshu teshu
te te prabhaava-nicayaa vihitaash ca yena
govindam aadi-purusham tam aham bhajaami
Lowest of all is located Devi-dhama [mundane world], next above it is Mahesa-dhama [abode of Mahesa]; above Mahesa-dhama is placed Hari-dhama [abode of Hari] and above them all is located Krishna's own realm named Goloka. I adore the primeval Lord Govinda, who has allotted their respective authorities to the rulers of those graded realms. (Brahma Samhita 5.43)
Somewhere on the net, someone has written something How to refute it ?
Anyone can write anything on internet. Nobody needs to refute it. One only needs to reject it. When one wants to practice devotional service, they take shelter of literature given by acaryas. Rest all writings can be safely preserved in garbage bin and not one's mind or intelligence.
Mentioning of Radha in literature
The name "Radha" does not directly appear in the Srimad Bhagavatam. So what.. there are many other literature which describe about radha - Gopala Tapani Upanisad, Rg Veda Parisista, Paippalada Samhita, Purusa-bodhini Sruti, Purusottama Tapini etc. Not to mention the literature left by Gosvamis of Vrindavan and their followers.
Worship of Radharani was also criticized by some less informed persons known as Ramananadis. Ramanandis were defeated by Baladeva Vidyabhushan. This link describes it. But even Ramanandis did not question the existence of Radha. Nobody can do that.
Ya, on internet they can try to mislead people but then people who are already misled only go to internet for learning about bhakti.
Hare Krsna
Lord Rāma is indeed the Avatari purusha!
people say That Devatas went to Lord Vishnu, who later incarnated as Lord Rāma as per Valmiki Ramayana, but this can be interpreted in another way! As per 2.44 of valmiki Ramayana, Lord Rama is प्रभोः प्रभोः i.e he is the Prabhu of even the Prabhu and God of all Gods i.e He is Mahavishnu of all Vishnus. The Ramayana mahaymaya 1.3 found in skanda puran says ब्रह्मविष्णुमहेशाद्या यस्यांशा i.e Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesa are Anshas of Lord Rama! Doesn't ends here, The Uttarkanda VR 7.104.9 of Same valmiki Ramayana says that It was Lord Rama who assumed the form of Vishnu in the beginning of the universe as ततस्त्वमसि दुर्धर्षात्तस्माद् भावात् सनातनात् ।
रक्षार्थं सर्वभूतानां विष्णुत्वं उपजग्मिवान् ॥ ~ Oh sri Rama! At my prayers and For the sake of protection of the universe, you Left your eternal form and assumed the form of Vishnu. further, Valmiki Ramayana Yuddha kanda sarga 117 seals the fact, by hailing him as the First creator, Swyam prabhu, Krsna, Vishnu, varaha, Vaman, Purusha and so on as त्रयाणामपि लोकानामादिकर्ता स्वयं प्रभुः ~ O’ Śrī Rāma ! You are the first creator of all the three words, and the Svayam-Prabhu [8] भवान्नारायणो देवः श्रीमांश्चक्रायुधः प्रभुः ~ O’ Śrī Rāma ! You are the glorious Lord Shriman Nārāyaṇa, who wields discus (chakra) [6.117.13] , एकशृङ्गो वराहस्त्वं भूतभव्यसपत्नजित् ~ O’ Śrī Rāma ! You are the Divine Boar Shri Varaha-deva with a single tusk, You are the conqueror of your past and future enemies [6.117.14] शार्ङ्गधन्वा हृषीकेशः पुरुषः पुरुषोत्तमः ॥ अजितः खड्गधृग्विष्णुः कृष्णश्चैव महाबलः ।
~ You are the wielder of a bow called Sarnga, the lord of the senses - Hrishikesha, the supreme soul of the universe - puruṣa, the best of men - puruṣōttama, the invincible one, the wielder of a sword named Nandaka, the all-pervader - Vishṇu, and the all-attractor - (Therefore renowned as) Krishna and the one endowed with great might.” [15-16] प्रभवश्चाप्ययश्च त्वमुपेन्द्रो मधुसूदनः “O’ Śrī Rāma ! You are the origin and the dissolution of all. You are Upendra the Divine Dwarf Vamana deva (the younger brother of Indra) and also the destroyer Madhu, the demon.” (17) सीता लक्ष्मीर्भवान् विष्णुर्देवः कृष्णः प्रजापतिः~ O’ Śrī Rāma ! Sītā is Lakshmi, and You are Vishṇu, You are Krishna and Prajapati [28]. Lord Rama is the पुराणं पुरुषोत्तमम् (32) i.e the oldest purusha or the Adi purusha as per lord Brahma, means Lord Rama is the original form the Lord. King dasratha seals the fact by saying that Lord Rama is indeed पुरुषोत्तमम् in 6.119 twice and the Supreme akshar brahman, who is the innerself of all Gods as per vedas i.e एतत्तदुक्तमव्यक्तमक्षरं ब्रह्मनिर्मितम्. Therefore, From the Valmiki Ramayana it is clear that It was Lord Rama only, who is the primordial form of Bhagvana, who gave Darshan to the devas, as Lord Vishnu. This is supported by Other scriptures too, including Hanuman samhita 7.78 सर्वेषाम् अवतारानाम् अवतारी रघुत्तम (Lord Rama is the Original avatari of all avatars), Agastya samhita chapter 5 यथा सर्वावताराणामवतारी रघूत्तम ~ Lord Rama is the avatari of All avatars, Adi Ramayana 4.24.22 अवतारांस्तथा सर्वाश्चतुर्विशदशादिभिः ~ Lord Rama is the source of all 24 and 10 incarnations, Adi Ramayana 1.9.18 एते चांशकलाश्चैव रामस्तु भगवान् स्वयम् ~ All incarnations are Portions or kalas, but Rama is swyam bhagvana, Brihad brahma samhita 2.7.8 वासुदेवादि मुर्तिनाम् चतुर्नाम् कारणं परम् चतुर्विंशति मुर्तिनाम् आश्रय श्रीरामः शरणं मम i.e The supreme cause of the four vyuhas, such as Vasudeva. Sri Rama, the shelter of the twenty-four avtars, is my refuge and so on. Srimad bhagvatam 2.7.23 Calls lord Rama, the Lord with all qualities, the Lord with kalas and Refers him as the Adi Purusha twice. Not only this, Padma Samhita Mentions the fact that the original form of Hari, is with two hands, carrying bow and arrow. In sri Rama geeta, Lord Rama mentions Vishnu to be his incarnation and him to be above tridevas, even in rama rahasya upanishad, which says Vasudeva, narasimha, narayana are parts of Rama, which is completely in line with all the scriptures.
Just one correction - Ramanandis are worshippers of Lord Rama. They worship Sita-Rama. The issue raised by them was that RadhaKrsna were not married. Baladeva Vidyabhushan established it is bonafide to worship Radha Krishna.
Hare krishna Bharat prabhu....All glories to you...around one year back, i had a indepth debate with a person from Ramanandi sampradaya...their website is www.lordrama.co.in
Although they establish lord ramachandra as the supreme person....they severely offend krishna and gaudiya vaishnavas ...its continuing still....I also mentioned garga samhita etc....no use...hence i stopped discussing these aspects...Anyway.....your reply was wonderful....
yours humble servant
I am a Ramanandi. If any Ramanandi criticize Lord Krishna and any Vaishnava Sect then he is not true Ramanandi. We consider Rama and Krishna to be on Same Level. You people differentiate between Ram ji and Krishna by Saying That Lord Ramachandra is just an incarnation of Krishna. Fir this you just have the proofs from Brahm Samhita which is also suspected one. But i can produce thousands of proofs for establishing the equality of Shri Rama and Krishna.
Hare Krsna
If any Ramanandi criticize Lord Krishna and any Vaishnava Sect then he is not true Ramanandi.
The above is a very true statement. Any true vaishnava who does not accept any form of Supreme Lord Vishnu is not a very advanced in knowledge.
Both Lord Rama and Lord Krsna are Supreme Personality of Godhead. The Iskcon temple where Srila Prabhupada spent the most amount of time is Iskcon Juhu and Iskcon Juhu has very beautiful deities of Sri Sri Sita Rama Lakshmana Hanuman. Nobody can minimize position of Lord Rama.
Hare Krsna