Where do we come from

PAMHO Hare krishna,

                                 Where do we come from, i have been reading srila prabhupad's books, i would like to ask this quesion to this forum. My understanding is, we are spiritual souls coming from Krishna. Can someone explain me in detail about this

Regards,

S.Aravind

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          • Sevak

            Hare Krsna Ashwin Pr

            BG 8.21 : having attained it, one never returns – that is My supreme abode.

            BG 15.6 : Those who reach it never return to this material world.

            This means that conditioned living entities when they reach/attain their constitutional position in spiritual world, then again they will not again fall back to material world. 

            This doesn't mean jiva which is rightfully situated in constitutional position does not / cannot fall to material existence. Being marginal potency jiva has that choice.

            Conclusion you have made about original place of jiva is not supported by scriptures. 

            Jiva has anadi (beginningless) karma - This is an indication that of the extent of conditioning  of the jiva due to contact with material existence. It is given to understand how how difficult it for jiva to get out on its own. It doesn't mean literally jiva has been in the material existence since eternity. Material existence itself isn't eternal, it is temporarily created and annihilated. 

            Jiva has free will - Purports of Srimad Bhagavatam & CC clearly support this

            Sb 11.3.38 - The conditioned living entity is originally part and parcel of the superior, internal potency of the Lord, but being in contact with illusion, he falls under the clutches of the external potency.

            SB 11.22.32 - The living entity is originally pure spirit soul and is meant to depend on the Personality of Godhead in the spiritual world.

            CC Adi 5.66 - In the conditioned state the living entities of the marginal energy are a mixture of spiritual and material energies. The marginal energy is originally under the control of the spiritual energy, but, under the control of the material energy, the living entities have been wandering in forgetfulness within the material world 

            The conditioned state is caused by misuse of the individual independence of the spiritual platform, for this separates the living entity from the association of the spiritual energy. But when the living entity is enlightened by the grace of the Supreme Lord or His pure devotee and becomes inclined to revive his original state of loving service, he is on the most auspicious platform of eternal bliss and knowledge. The marginal jiva, or living entity, misuses his independence and becomes averse to the eternal service attitude when he independently thinks he is not energy but the energetic. This misconception of his own existence leads him to the attitude of lording it over material nature.

            These are divine purports of His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupad - compassionate savior of the conditioned living. They are not speculations of scientists or arm chair philosophers or evil minded intellectuals. Faith on the right source is important.

            YAS Bharat

            • Hare Krishna Bharat Prabhuji

               CC Adi 5.66 - In the conditioned state the living entities of the marginal energy are a mixture of spiritual and material energies. The marginal energy is originally under the control of the spiritual energy, but, under the control of the material energy, the living entities have been wandering in forgetfulness within the material world 

              The Jiva can only fall in the material world, because Spiritual World is completely Free from contamination of Material Energy , as they are made of Shuddha sattva and Protected by Lord's Yoga-maya.

              "The conditioned state is caused by misuse of the individual independence of the spiritual platform. "

              This too can only be applied to the souls in material world, because Spiritual Abodes are replete with knowledge and Bliss, how can a Spiritual Jiva make such a foolish decision?

              Even Jay and Vijay the doorkeepers of Lord Vishnu had to come to the material world. They were destined to liberation after Three Births and were delivered by the Lord in all three births.

              So there's clearly a difference between Jivas from Spiritual World whom the Lord Personally Delivers and baddha/conditioned jivas like us who have to earn Lord's grace. 

              your aspiring servant,

              Ashwin

              • Sevak

                How can a Spiritual Jiva make such a foolish decision?

                That is an entirely different question from where the jiva has come from and the cause of coming. 

                Just because someone doesn't know the answer to this one question(such as this) one cannot make conclusion against the words of scriptures and acaryas that jiva has not come from spiritual platform. 

                The generic answer to this is that jiva but its nature of being marginal potency it has a choice. How to use that choice is entirely upto the individual jiva. Each jiva is unique. How exactly each conditioned jiva misused the independence in the spiritual platform is not given in scriptures. It probably cannot be mentioned because the exact mechanism of misuse of free will may not be the same for each jiva. But generically, there was misuse of independence and that has caused conditioning.

                YAS Bharat

                • Hare Krishna

                  Thank you prabhuji for the attachment

                  • Sevak

                    Haribol !

              • Sevak

                Hare Krsna Pr

                SP writes - under the control of the material energy, the living entities have been wandering in forgetfulness within the material world. 

                But this does not mean they have eternally constitutionally resided in material world. That is not possible simply because material world itself is not eternal. Also see he uses the word forgetfulness. In order to forget something, one needs to know it in the first place. If Jiva were present in material world itself with no spiritual connection, then no question of forgetfulness. Forgetfulness is because conditioned jiva was in spiritual energy and now it has forgotten. It is very clear from what SP writes.

                The conditioned state is caused by misuse of the individual independence of the spiritual platform

                It is very clearly written by Srila prabhupad what is cause of conditioning of the conditioned jiva. If this conditioning was not there, the jiva is pure and situated in spiritual platform. I do not see what is the difficulty in understanding it.

                Your conclusion that -" This too can only be applied to the souls in material world" is incorrect. Because Srila Prabhupad has written misuse of independence of spiritual platform. 

                Yes there is difference between Jay-Vijay and other conditioned jiva. The difference is that they did not misuse their independence, they did not fall down they were specially sent with specific purpose. It was special arrangement of lord for his personal pastimes. 

                SB 7.1.33 Purport - Sisupala and Dantavakra were not ordinary demons, but were formerly personal associates of Lord Visnu. They apparently fell to this material world, but actually they came to assist the Supreme Personality of Godhead by nourishing His pastimes within this world.

                sb 7.1.35 Purport - From authoritative sources it is learned that Jaya and Vijaya were sent to this material world to fulfill the Lord's desire to fight.

                But conditioned souls have become conditioned due to misuse of independence of spiritual platform and hence are bound in the material world due to their conditioning. 

                YAS Bharat

                • Hare Krishna prabhuji

                  I didn't meant to say Jiva eternally resides in the material world. What i meant by Spiritual Platform was that Jiva constitutionally is God's energy. As per Bhagavad Gita, Living entities are eternally part and parcel of God. And after its successfully liberated from Material World it enters Spiritual World to enjoy with the Lord.

                  Are there any scriptural reference which states the original abode of Jiva is Spiritual World?

                  Your servant

                  Ashwin

                  • Sevak

                    Hare Krsna Pr

                    There are scriptural references. 

                    BG 7.5
                    apareyam itas tv anyaam
                    prakrtim viddhi me paraam
                    jiva-bhutaam mahaa-baaho
                    yayedam dhaaryate jagat
                    Translation : Besides these inferior energies, O mighty-armed Arjuna, there is another, superior energy of Mine, which comprises the living entities who are exploiting the resources of this material, inferior nature.’

                    Here Jiva is referred to as paraam - indicating that it belongs to superior energy.

                    Visnu Purana (6.7.61)
                    visnu-saktih paraa proktaa
                    ksetra-jnaakhyaa tathaa paraa
                    avidyaa-karma-samjnaanyaa
                    trtiyaa saktir isyate
                    The potency of Lord Visnu is summarized in three categories—namely, the spiritual potency, the living entities and ignorance. The spiritual potency is full of knowledge; the living entities, although belonging to the spiritual potency, are subject to bewilderment; and the third energy, which is full of ignorance, is always visible in fruitive activities.’

                    We have to understand that Krsna is sarva karana karanam. Krsna is the source of everything. Krsna is source of jiva. Jiva belongs to spiritual energy. Krsna is the energetic or the possessor of the energy. 

                    So there is no other possibility other than jiva belonging to spiritual potency/ spiritual world. Definitely not some "light".

                    There is a whole book on the origin of Jiva. You can find as attachment. 

                    YAS Bharat

                    The Origin of Jiva.pdf

  • Hare Krishna Aravind Prabhu!

    All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

    Prabhu, you have asked an important question which everyone should not only understand, but should also realize from heart. Krishna clearly states that straight froward message in Bhagavad Gita in the following verse:

    BG 14.4: It should be understood that all species of life, O son of Kuntī, are made possible by birth in this material nature, and that I am the seed-giving father.

     

    Hare Krishna,

    Your insignificant servant,

    Amal 

    • Hare krishna prabhu,

                          Everyone who follows ISKCON knows that all of us are from Sri krishna, i want to know in detail about that

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