How to understand vaishnav,however one know how it done.Sometimes in temple services any senior devotee gives overburden services to a newly joined or junior devotee and makes himself free mentally and physically.The junior has hard times even to chant 16 rounds.In this case envy,anger,criticisism arises in junior devotees mind.He cant control because as a neophyte he has more bad virtues.Now in this one should leave temple services and go to home or go on offending vaishnavas,which ultimately results loss of bhakti.In both cases result is same.Can anybody resolve this confusion.Now if someone says go and beg pardon of that senior devotee who has been offended,in this the senior becomes more bullying.
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I think personally ONLY, Vaishnava Aparadha, doesn't exist. A REAL Vaishnava is never offended.
I think and personally feel it brings Bad Karmic Reactions (possibly), for example we see Bhakti' path as 9 to 5. Maybe one day we miss, like linear line. But in terms of time what did we miss? Nothing really.
I also think devotees who are offended' are not real devotees. They are arrogant and think these levels great, esoterically.
It's just about respecting somebody. Not oh this person so high in bookish knowledge I must respect him!.
Don't worry about aparadha, first class Vaishnava's tell you that on the basis you WILL listen to Thier teachings and serve.
:)
3d75ovfx8t5hx > 3d75ovfx8t5hxFebruary 12, 2019 at 6:03pm
I was talking about Vaishnava aparadha not Nama specifically.
Shravn Prabhu > 3d75ovfx8t5hxFebruary 12, 2019 at 5:36am
If you are losing interest, and not getting taste for chanting the Names of the Lord, it is surely a sign of Namaparadh. Doesnt matter you say it exists or not.
You have to understand that, being contaminated by material nature, most sadakas are not sincere. Now, that may include you. (Sorry, for being so direct). That is something you have to introspect within yourself, on a nice Ekadasi day. Ekadasi, is a day for self examination.
Lets say, you did a little work and the superior paid you a lot. What would you think of him? Very merciful, correct?
Now try to understand, what is seva. Seva (to Lord and Vaishnavas) is spiritual equivalent of cash in material world.
Your senior is being very merciful is giving you maximum spiritual cash while he is not keeping any for himself (according to your words)
It is not easy to get Seva of the Lord. Think of how many millions and crores of people in India, who dont even get to see the front door of the temple, what to speak of being overburdened by Seva, by the mercy of the Lord and His devotees.
Only one in a thousand come to Krishna.
If you have come to ISKCON for the right reason, to serve the Lord, and His devotees, then you must feel bliss in doing these activities. Be honest.
If you have come to ISKCON for material benefits, then put up with what you think is crap and brighter days of material benefits ahead of you. Along with material nature, you will also get kicks of Maya Devi. Choice is yours.
I am not saying that your senior devotee is right and you are wrong. Or that you are right and He is wrong.
I have no way of knowing what is going on. I am not passing judgement on anyone.
All I know is that he is bestowing so much mercy (service) upon you, that you are not able to take it.
Here is another dynamic. What is lower in the material world is higher in the spiritual world.
By that your spiritual position is higher than your superior in the temple.
Now I am not speaking from theory. I have been there. I always wish to be in lower position. For obvious reason, as expalined above.
When I visit a temple, in Los Angeles, I engage myself, fully.
I dont always get the mercy to make it to Mangal Artik at 4:30am, Sometimes I make it to half or all of it.
Japa from 5:30-7:00 am
7:00 to 8:45 Bhagavatam class
9:00- I serve Prasadam
After that I help in the Kitchen till 11:30. Chop veges, peal potatoes etc, which no one wants to do :) Can you relate to that, prabhuji?
11:30am-12:30pm Kirtan in the temple.
Temple is closed till 4:30
I do seva in the temple from 4:30 until closing at 8:30 Kirtan, Bhagavad gita class etc.
When the temple is closed, I associate with other devotees at the temple, listen to others reading Bhagavad Gita, or participate in Kirtan, or sometimes go on a short Nagar sankirtan during lunch hour, walking by, restaurants near by.
Now this is living in Vaikunta.
Be at the lowest end, clean the temple or any service you can get. Senior positions have nothing but headaches. I assure you. Perhaps, if your survive, you will get to be one of them. Then you will be bossing them, those who dont want to do anything but complain. At the end of the day you are responsible to the Temple president, whether they do the work or not. Some time you may miss sleep at night you will be busy cleaning the floor or clean the dirty dishes, or chopping the vegetables because your subordinates did not do the job. Anyways, good luck!
What goes around comes around. If you complain, bitch and moan about the mercy of, what I feel, blissful Seva bestowed upon you, you too, when you get to manage people, will have to deal with 10x people who also just like you, complain, criticize, bitch and moan!!
Just chant Hare Krishna and serve with enthusiasm!! Is the teaching of Prabhupada.
Hope I helped you see the big picture. Forgive me if I offended you Govind Prajapati Prabhu
Kindly bless me that I too may be inundated with more Seva than I can handle, without going into a blissful experience.
Hare Krishna prabhuji,dandavant pranam
Prabhuji you are right.It is my ego and laziness making me think such a low.Your reply is instructive.
Please send me ur mail id so that i can get instructive knowledge.
Haribol!!!your servant
Okay you got Sava Bhakti Savah is as good & offten better than Chanting, As Chanting is more simmuler to Singing a perpetuated mellody unaversally pleasing mellody but a song never the less! But Working & slaving away physicaly that's the (hunny pot) of Moksha* as the-Yogis say, what greater bond could you possablely hope for where chanting might be easer & perhaps more entertaining & universally pleasing. But by working directly for Krishna the potentuels could be even more profoundly binnafishel for you personally! ? Where singing is like flerting working is like a congagel bonding. Don't underestimate the potentuel of any of Krishna's perscribed services, as they all are said to have the same Perpus, to bring is closer to a place of puraty so that Krishna will take a empathic disposition concerning our own existence. I.e. they all work the same way. My advice buck-up some backbones & get to work what you think is beneeth you might be over your head.
The working develups a strong*attachments where as the chanting is Subtal & attractive but
I think, more of an atimic remuneration ultimately.
Nothing not even God knows the Glory of Hi's Self reincarnated from call CHANTING i.e. reaches the limits of God's own understanding of Hi's own potential (s) So one's a mistory comparatively & the others a congagel companion comparitivly.
Don't mone about sava of any kind in the 1st. Place there all, all good iswhat we know about them.
You are re-develuping a tast of your eternal nature energies & influences atast that we have forgotten and been lost long ago So pus on fight through the boordum & the repttativeness if it seem such & know
you are re-develuping a long lost empathy & Love ah relationship that no one can accually exzist in any qualitative masher with out. You need that Guy who brings you to Krishna's Sava Thank Him.
The people closist to us in this world are the very ones who do us the most harm is this not true? Then what are we waiting for, we need a new set of friends KARMIS are just crazy-happy peasants w/$. We want more we it all
Loving commaroddery safty in trustWorthy companionship oppulencs God & Hi's favered pastimes & peoples.yes?
In this case envy,anger,criticisism arises in junior devotees mind.
If the seva is not done with proper attitude it is not seva. If it creates envy, anger criticism then it is not seva. the devotee should not accept so much services at all.
Please remember this doing seva is to attract mercy and make progress. If it is becoming obstacle in chanting 16 rounds or is prompting criticism of devotees then it clearly means the amount of seva has to be reduced.
I do not think anybody would forcefully burden others if that person is not willing to accept seva. The devotee must decide how much he can take depending on his capacity and clearly set limits.
Nobody can force anybody to do seva if they are not willing to. The individual must balance it.
Hare Krsna Prabhuji,
PAMHO.
I completely understand and empathise with what you are mentioning. Sadly, it is true. In the name of devotional service, there are seasoned players who are out to take advantage of gullible young freshers, in some cases, driving them away from devotion.
What to do in the situation mentioned by you - go to that senior and tell him you are overburdened, you can do this much and no more. Be polite and firm. No need to get taken in by the senior's immediate expected discourse on how much devotional service will benefit your spiritual life. Tell him firmly you are not even finding time to chant. You will do service, as much as you are comfortable.
I have seen the hardest thing to do is to learn to say No among devotee circles. The sooner one learns to say that, with grace, politeness and humility, the better it is for spiritual growth.
Best of luck prabhuji. Keep learning.
Haribol,
Your servant,
Radha Rasamayi DD
Replies
I think and personally feel it brings Bad Karmic Reactions (possibly), for example we see Bhakti' path as 9 to 5. Maybe one day we miss, like linear line. But in terms of time what did we miss? Nothing really.
I also think devotees who are offended' are not real devotees. They are arrogant and think these levels great, esoterically.
It's just about respecting somebody. Not oh this person so high in bookish knowledge I must respect him!.
Don't worry about aparadha, first class Vaishnava's tell you that on the basis you WILL listen to Thier teachings and serve.
:)
If you are losing interest, and not getting taste for chanting the Names of the Lord, it is surely a sign of Namaparadh. Doesnt matter you say it exists or not.
You have to understand that, being contaminated by material nature, most sadakas are not sincere. Now, that may include you. (Sorry, for being so direct). That is something you have to introspect within yourself, on a nice Ekadasi day. Ekadasi, is a day for self examination.
Lets say, you did a little work and the superior paid you a lot. What would you think of him? Very merciful, correct?
Now try to understand, what is seva. Seva (to Lord and Vaishnavas) is spiritual equivalent of cash in material world.
Your senior is being very merciful is giving you maximum spiritual cash while he is not keeping any for himself (according to your words)
It is not easy to get Seva of the Lord. Think of how many millions and crores of people in India, who dont even get to see the front door of the temple, what to speak of being overburdened by Seva, by the mercy of the Lord and His devotees.
Only one in a thousand come to Krishna.
If you have come to ISKCON for the right reason, to serve the Lord, and His devotees, then you must feel bliss in doing these activities. Be honest.
If you have come to ISKCON for material benefits, then put up with what you think is crap and brighter days of material benefits ahead of you. Along with material nature, you will also get kicks of Maya Devi. Choice is yours.
I am not saying that your senior devotee is right and you are wrong. Or that you are right and He is wrong.
I have no way of knowing what is going on. I am not passing judgement on anyone.
All I know is that he is bestowing so much mercy (service) upon you, that you are not able to take it.
Here is another dynamic. What is lower in the material world is higher in the spiritual world.
By that your spiritual position is higher than your superior in the temple.
Now I am not speaking from theory. I have been there. I always wish to be in lower position. For obvious reason, as expalined above.
When I visit a temple, in Los Angeles, I engage myself, fully.
I dont always get the mercy to make it to Mangal Artik at 4:30am, Sometimes I make it to half or all of it.
Japa from 5:30-7:00 am
7:00 to 8:45 Bhagavatam class
9:00- I serve Prasadam
After that I help in the Kitchen till 11:30. Chop veges, peal potatoes etc, which no one wants to do :) Can you relate to that, prabhuji?
11:30am-12:30pm Kirtan in the temple.
Temple is closed till 4:30
I do seva in the temple from 4:30 until closing at 8:30 Kirtan, Bhagavad gita class etc.
When the temple is closed, I associate with other devotees at the temple, listen to others reading Bhagavad Gita, or participate in Kirtan, or sometimes go on a short Nagar sankirtan during lunch hour, walking by, restaurants near by.
Now this is living in Vaikunta.
Be at the lowest end, clean the temple or any service you can get. Senior positions have nothing but headaches. I assure you. Perhaps, if your survive, you will get to be one of them. Then you will be bossing them, those who dont want to do anything but complain. At the end of the day you are responsible to the Temple president, whether they do the work or not. Some time you may miss sleep at night you will be busy cleaning the floor or clean the dirty dishes, or chopping the vegetables because your subordinates did not do the job. Anyways, good luck!
What goes around comes around. If you complain, bitch and moan about the mercy of, what I feel, blissful Seva bestowed upon you, you too, when you get to manage people, will have to deal with 10x people who also just like you, complain, criticize, bitch and moan!!
Just chant Hare Krishna and serve with enthusiasm!! Is the teaching of Prabhupada.
Hope I helped you see the big picture. Forgive me if I offended you Govind Prajapati Prabhu
Kindly bless me that I too may be inundated with more Seva than I can handle, without going into a blissful experience.
My sincere request.
In Service of Vaishnas
Shravn
Prabhuji you are right.It is my ego and laziness making me think such a low.Your reply is instructive.
Please send me ur mail id so that i can get instructive knowledge.
Haribol!!!your servant
Very nice question
The working develups a strong*attachments where as the chanting is Subtal & attractive but
I think, more of an atimic remuneration ultimately.
Nothing not even God knows the Glory of Hi's Self reincarnated from call CHANTING i.e. reaches the limits of God's own understanding of Hi's own potential (s) So one's a mistory comparatively & the others a congagel companion comparitivly.
Don't mone about sava of any kind in the 1st. Place there all, all good iswhat we know about them.
You are re-develuping a tast of your eternal nature energies & influences atast that we have forgotten and been lost long ago So pus on fight through the boordum & the repttativeness if it seem such & know
you are re-develuping a long lost empathy & Love ah relationship that no one can accually exzist in any qualitative masher with out. You need that Guy who brings you to Krishna's Sava Thank Him.
The people closist to us in this world are the very ones who do us the most harm is this not true? Then what are we waiting for, we need a new set of friends KARMIS are just crazy-happy peasants w/$. We want more we it all
Loving commaroddery safty in trustWorthy companionship oppulencs God & Hi's favered pastimes & peoples.yes?
Hare Krsna
In this case envy,anger,criticisism arises in junior devotees mind.
If the seva is not done with proper attitude it is not seva. If it creates envy, anger criticism then it is not seva. the devotee should not accept so much services at all.
Please remember this doing seva is to attract mercy and make progress. If it is becoming obstacle in chanting 16 rounds or is prompting criticism of devotees then it clearly means the amount of seva has to be reduced.
I do not think anybody would forcefully burden others if that person is not willing to accept seva. The devotee must decide how much he can take depending on his capacity and clearly set limits.
Nobody can force anybody to do seva if they are not willing to. The individual must balance it.
Hare Krsna
PAMHO.
I completely understand and empathise with what you are mentioning. Sadly, it is true. In the name of devotional service, there are seasoned players who are out to take advantage of gullible young freshers, in some cases, driving them away from devotion.
What to do in the situation mentioned by you - go to that senior and tell him you are overburdened, you can do this much and no more. Be polite and firm. No need to get taken in by the senior's immediate expected discourse on how much devotional service will benefit your spiritual life. Tell him firmly you are not even finding time to chant. You will do service, as much as you are comfortable.
I have seen the hardest thing to do is to learn to say No among devotee circles. The sooner one learns to say that, with grace, politeness and humility, the better it is for spiritual growth.
Best of luck prabhuji. Keep learning.
Haribol,
Your servant,
Radha Rasamayi DD
Nice practical answer, mataji.
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