we have information that past and future time doesn't exist in vaikuntha planets ? but so many past times happend in past such as
- vrinda devi was gopi and jalandhar was gopa , both appeared in material world and after some time went back to golok this shows time present in spiritual world also
- jai, vijai pasttime
- we say krishna created us for his enjoyment time immemorial back , then definately there might be some reference time
- one contradiction some times i hear krishna creaeted us for increasing enjoyment and some times i hear we and krishna exist simultaneously (this argument is generally used for q'n like why krishna created me if i was going to falldown) which one is true ? (i have information that as per nimbarkacharya sampradya krishna and we exist simultaneously,kindly confirm)
- i also heard past times keeps repeating in vaikuntha but still i understand it is boring (every time jai and vijai comes down), kindly correct.
ask experts and senior devotees and provide valuable updates
Replies
Hare Krishna dear Devotees. please accept my humble obeisances! All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
Concerning Vrinda Devi or any other pastimes: whenever these pastimes are completed in one Universe they will start in another. In this way they are eternal.
Let's say that there is spiritual time - which means no end and beginning.
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in the reality as we are souls we are already know everything. Because qualitatively we are one with Krishna but in quantity we are very insignificant. But our soul is covered with material things like false ego, intelligence, mind, 5 elements. Because of that soul manifests itself only through these five senses. But when we perform devotional service our false ego which is "mine" and "me" turns into true ego: "everything belongs to Krishna and i am His servant" then we can see things in the real way.
Who is Krishna, who am i...this is called knowledge.
For example, when a yogi sees Lord in His heart He does not see Him with his material eyes. But with the eyes of the soul. How? Soul is sitting in our heart and Paramatma in our chest. When we remove dirts, coverings we - soul can be able to see the Supreme Soul who is near by him.
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In Goloka Vrindavan everyone just chanting the Holy Names of Krishna, they think about Him, they do everything for Him, they talk about Him...and talks about Him, remembrance of Him, work for Him is not rather than samadhi.
And chanting process is the beginning. Because here in material world our soul in covered by material elements as we told before.
When false ego become in contact with the mode of passion appeared intelligence.
When false ego become in contact with the mode of goodness appeared mind.
When false ego become in contact with the mode of ignorance appeared the sense of hearing.
Because of that it is the easiest way using the sense of hearing to remove the false ego.
In order to reach the false ego trough intelligence we have to be very learned. And if through mind our mind should be very strong.
But in this age of Kali we even can not remember what we ate yesterday then what to speak of our intelligence? Remembrance is one of the functions of intelligence.
or we can not concentrate our mind in one point for hours, within seconds mind starts to run here and there.
so how to reach the false ego with such like mind??? very difficult.
Because of that we just use ears. Just listen the Spiritual sound vibration. will continue...
using ears we remove ignorance. and accordingly false ego - false identity - that i am this body.
it is the best way for our present condition. But we also must use our mind and intelligence for immediate progress.
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Harinama Sankirtana is non different from Rasa dance in Goloka Vrindavan. In the sense the bliss which soul can feel is equal - non less.
Reading of Srimad Bhagavatam is equal to Krishna's kiss. The same bliss soul can feel. So here we have to understand the quantity of bliss and separation feel souls.
I did not hear that in Navadvipa Devotees are in Shanta Rasa. No, i did not heard about that. Lord Chaitania came to gift us the bhava of Manjaris. Complete humility and surrender and unalloyed service - in some case , yes it might be shanta rasa, but i do not know. Because Manjaris feel the same bliss which Srimati Radharani feels.
Your servant,
Hare Krishna Nilesh Prabhu, please accept my humble obeisances! all glories to Srila Prabhupada!
We everyday chant 16 rounds. And by the time if we are serious we will have desire to chant it again and again. Why? because the Holy Names are spiritual, eternally full of bliss and knowledge.
Boring means some ignorance. In spiritual world there is no ignorance. Boringness comes from the mode of ignorance - darkness.
In this way Krishna, His Names, Pastimes, Names are not different in nature. If Holy Names are so sweet then Krishna's lilas are also sweet. "Give me more give me more...tell me more!"
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Because Krishna's Body is eternal we are also eternal. But these things we will understand nicely when we reach Him and attain our spiritual body.
with this brain it is not possible to understand.
Your servant,
Hare Krishna nilesh prabhuji
Neither I am an expert nor a senior devotee, in fact I am a neophyte more of your kind earlier believing in Shiva and concept of impersonalism. Vedas do not reject the theory of impersonalist form of God.
But just think from a perspective of a a girl loving his true lover. All the time she would be thinking of the lover and chanting her name by default (she doesn't require a bead to chant 16 rounds of his lover) and thinking about the past times with his lover. Also she thinks her lover is perfect, full of knowledge and intelligent. All this automatically gives her happiness, satisfaction and enjoyment. What else do you need in life?. (Food and shelter is automatically provided by nature even to the tiniest creature of this world)
Or on the same note , think about a mother remembering her child's pastimes all the time and calling out his name again and again
Lord Krishna has manifested these past times so that we can enjoy, satisfy and have fun reading it again and again.
I am pretty sure many devotees would wish if somebody could tell the stories about Lord Krishna's past times in some other universe we don't know about . We feel like these past times stories should be never ending as it gives pleasure thinking and reading about it.
By calling his holy names we are requesting Radharani and Lord Krishna to please help understand his divinity , his pastimes and his supreme personality.
You don't have to chant necessarily with a bead and perform 16 rounds. But do you think otherwise in this kalyug you will sit for 3 hours at least daily (no vacation/holidays) and perform pooja/seva/arti to Lord Krishna and remember Krishna in every act you do. If you can then well you don't need to chant.
No offense please
Hare Krishna.
u gave answer w.r.t. what? my question is about timing in SW & MW.
ANYWAY lets discuss ur views ..
- i never said vedas reject impersonal theory but vaishnavs must reject it else will remain impersonal only
- regarding "girl loving his true lover" it is 200% wrong it is pure lust bcoz krishna is not center and no one chants lovers name impossible in reality as time progress they start hating each other thats why we do saptapadi (for seven times marriage for 7 life) in marriage, u start new discussion then w'll discuss.
- only krishna is perfect rest all not.
- past time doesn't give pleasure bcoz krishna is there without love 4 krishna it is same movie story.
- we call holy name not to ask help to understand pasttimes but as service indirectly to please krishna as said by parampara
- last point i liked (bcoz u gave concession :-) ) , but we need to chant bcoz it is told to us that is perfect reason.
many devotees do puja , seva for more than 4 hours w.r.t. diety brahmacharis do seva for 12 - 13 hours
no other service is important than chanting in material world generally.
i don't take offense, please u don't take offense.
we should clear doubts, kindly correct and confirm.
Hare Krishna prabhuji
I gave your answer with respect to below quote. I haven't answered all your question, just one.
"in my understanding holy name will take us to golok vrindavan but in golok no one chants do lover chants beloved's name NO! (we don't find in bhagvatam brajvasis chant krishnas name) it is deep routed in heart but".....
you are right , especially after marriages, the love between girl and boy diminishes because of this material nature. Even between mother and child the love diminishes with time because of material nature.
But the love between Krishna and the soul would never diminish with time due to spiritual nature.
It's up to to you whether you want to understand and take it in a positive way ,the example I gave you .
I have seen that in these forums these kind of discussions are endless and there always exists a counter argument.
I don' chant because somebody has told me to chant.
I did that only once and first time when a prabhuji told me to check myself and experience if chanting helps.
I felt it did help me that's why I chant. I don't even chant 16 rounds because some prabhuji said chant 16 rounds. You need to feel the love for chanting. you can do more or you can do less.
It ultimately boils down to love for Krishna.
Hare Krishna
mother u deviate from q'n context, pls consider my request to read it again anyway
mother tell me how holy name is full of knowledge logically ? as u said "because the Holy Names are spiritual, eternally full of bliss and knowledge."
- holy name gives happiness and it is eternal but how it is of full knowledge
- holy name is everything(sat chit ananda) then why we require form, qualities and past times ?
in my understanding holy name will take us to golok vrindavan but in golok no one chants do lover chants beloved's name NO! (we don't find in bhagvatam brajvasis chant krishnas name) it is deep routed in heart but
they always think of krishna as person not as name {contradiction is we say krishna's name and krishna is same but point to remember is we also says that krishna put all his strength in his holy names ref : shikshashtakam .. namnam nija sarva shakti .. that shows krishna and his name is different in reality}
so pasttimes are epitome of service in golok vrindavan
in abode of navdvipa (one section in golok vrindavan) as said it is chanted continuously as there is dasya (audarya) bhav, so for chaitanya mahaprabhu followers holy name can be kindly confirm
so chanting (holyname and pasttimes) are epitome of service in golok vrindavan navdvipa* section
kindly confirm
take my comments in positive way, forgive offenses. thanks .
i m asking q'n as of i m impersonalist forgive me.