devotees this is from SB just click on this link below. i understand what SP has written but unbelieviable that such women existed even during Lord Krishnas time!!
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Siddhartha Prabhu !
Demons does not mean who have horns on their heads, having big teeths, twisted faces, big bodies..... demons here means people with demoniac thoughts, they are people like us, like you, like me who do not follow the authority of God, who do not follow the instructions given in Vedas, who concoct things on their own and spread atheism. What I meant from demons are those people who force women, children into prostitution or begging, such demons existed earlier also and will exist as long there are people like us with don’t care attitude as unless it is us or our immediate family, it does not effect us. Other than prostitution, child begging is also very prominent, its a big racket involving big guns, children are kidnapped, their hands or legs broken or their eyes smashed and are forced to beg.
I cannot understand what is actually in your mind. You should have understood from Srila Prabhupada purport itself why prostitutes existed.
We people try to analyze others by thinking them to be like us, to be on our level or on lower level than us. May be you think prostitutes to be the sinnest of all people, you have your own mindset about them. Prostitution in not a business which women do for their enjoyment, this you must be aware of. It may be due to various reason already explained. Even Srila Prabhupada wrote in the purport “By tricks of chance one may be obliged to adopt a profession which is not very adorable in society”. Like King Bharata, a great devotee was not supposed to get a deer’s body in next life, he left his family, his kingdom, everything, every facilities, such a big king, but become attached to a deer...... by trick of chance. As mentioned earlier, in earlier yugas, even if one thought sinful, he had to face reactions. One does not have control over thoughts, it depends upon association. So getting a prostitute body does not make the soul a prostitute. By trick of chance or whatever if there were prostitutes, their soul were pure devotees, they were just facing karmic reactions from their past karmas.
Secondly, a pure devotee is always yearning to help the suffering souls in going back to Godhead and he is even not interested in getting out from the cycle of birth and death, he is ready to suffer birth after birth if he is able to take out the suffering souls from this material world. There are numerous examples of this like Prahlad Maharaj, Dhruv Maharaj who refused salvation and instead wanted to stay in the material world to help the unfortunate people in enlivening dormant Krsna consciousness lying in their heart and helping them revive their eternal, blissful life.
In the same Srila Prabhupada purport, you must have read about Sri Bilvamangala Thakura, a great acarya of the Vishnusvami Vaishnava sect, in his householder life was overly attached to a prostitute named Chintamani who happened to be a devotee of the Lord. One night when the Thakura came to Cintamani's house in torrents of rain and thunder, Cintamani was astonished to see how the Thakura could come on such a dreadful night after crossing a foaming river which was full of waves. She said to Thakura Bilvamangala that his attraction for the flesh and bone of an insignificant woman like her would be properly utilized if it could be diverted to the devotional service of the Lord to achieve attraction for the transcendental beauty of the Lord. It was a momentous hour for the Thakura, and he took a turn towards spiritual realization by the words of a prostitute. Later on the Thakura accepted the prostitute as his spiritual master, and in several places of his literary works he has glorified the name of Cintamani, who showed him the right path.
Our powerful Vaishnava Acharya Bhaktivinode Thakura has written in one of his bhajans :
kīṭa-janma hau jathā tuwā dās bahir-mukha brahma janme nāhi āś.
May I be born again even as a worm, so long as I may remain Your devotee. I have no desire to be born as a Brahma averse (disinclined) to You.
So from above, what I want to convey is that a pure devotee of Lord is ready to take any body whether of a Brahmin or of a prostitute, is ready to suffer in countless lives in this material world if he is able to serve Lord and what is the best service, to take the suffering souls back to their Supreme Father Krsna. So a devotee prostitute mentioned in the Srimad Bhagvatam 1.11.19 referred by you should have striked your mind had you been at least sincerely trying to be a devotee.............
Now read again the sloka and try to understand :
If a prostitute is a devotee and she recognizes Krsna as Supreme Personality of Godhead, she is very eager to meet the Lord and their beautiful faces were decorated with dazzling earrings, which enhanced the beauty of their foreheads.
Now let us compare their transcendental qualities with ourselves :
Prostitute – devotee……… Are we devotee???
Prostitute very eager to meet the Lord………….. Are we eager to meet the Lord????
Their beautiful faces decorated to please the Lord…………… Have we ever gone to temple to please the Lord by decorating ourselves, by taking bath nicely, by wearing nice clothes, in a mood to please the Lord???
Now may be one can say that Krsna was present that time so they went to take His darshan but where we should go…. There were others also like kauravas but they did not recognize Krsna as Lord except a few pandavas, Bhismadev, Vidur, inhabitants of Mathura, Dwarka, Vrindavan. All others took Krsna as a ordinary human being.
You have mentioned in Krsna time it was happening. We should understand every time is Krsna, Krsna is saying to Arjuna in Bhagvad Gita that He is the eternal time……….
We don’t have the eyes to see Krsna, we are materially contaminated, so first of all we have to remove the dirt accumulated in our heart since time immemorial. The process hope we know.
Are we following all regulative principles, are we chanting without offenses, are we serving pure devotees , have we taken initiation from a bona fide spiritual master, if yes are we following His instructions sincerely????
Unless we will follow all above, we will never understand the greatness of pure devotees, we will misjudge them, pure devotees work for Krsna and Guru pleasure and are ready to do any work, even it is not good in eyes of others, they can accept any bodies even of a prostitute. If Chintamani had not been a prostitute, we had not been able to know about Sri Bilvamangala Thakura, a great acarya of the Vishnusvami Vaishnava sect. Even these days there are many devotes specially in western countries who are even preaching in red light areas, where illegal prostitutes, gambling etc. goes on, they are not bothered about their reputation as may be people will think to be like other customers, there are various dangers of physical assault too as the controller of such areas would not want their clients or the prostitutes to become holy and they suffer losses.
I am sorry due to shortage of time I wont be able to come back on this topic, I tried my best, if you are a sincere soul, you should approach proper authority in your nearest ISKCON center to help change your mindset, to help you become purer in thoughts.
Pl forgive me if somewhere I had been harsh in writing, may be your question is different, you meant something else but I took it differently according to my imperfect senses and answered wrongly.
Hare Krsna !
Your servant,
Harish
Srila Prabhupada has mentioned this is the reason that such things were there in previous times also but that does not mean that it was encouraged by Krsna!!! no!!
Hare Krsna Siddhartha !
- Demons and Devotees will always exist like 2 sides of the same coin. But it does not mean that their fathers are responsible for their existence. Suppose in a family there are 2 kids one is a good child and another is a bastard, drunkard, street monger, women hunter, so does it mean father is responsible for that. How does the other child remained a good child, simple because he loved his father and followed his instructions whereas the other did not care for the instructions of his father and just wanted to live life on his own and does not want any restrictions to be imposed on him. Similarly all are children of Krsna and Krsna has given instructions in Bhagvad Gita how to utilize this human form of life :
BG 18.66
Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear.
BG 18.65
Always think of Me and become My devotee. Worship Me and offer your homage unto Me. Thus you will come to Me without fail. I promise you this because you are My very dear friend.
The Supreme Personality of Godhead Krsna will protect us from the reactions of the sins we have committed in various lives and we will be able to go back once again to Him and live a blissful life but are we prepared?? Do we believe we are sinners or we are only busy finding fault with others or thinking we are better than most of the others? Its not our first life, we had committed various sins, are committing various sins knowingly or unknowingly (like killing ants while walking) since time immemorial and reactions for those are awaiting us in the times to come.
but krsna did not stop these things either! when krsna took birth every thing became auspicious, nature, humans, animals then how could these exist.
What should have Krsna done? Should have killed all demoniac people with demoniac thoughts? Do you think right now only impious people exist?? Do you think there are no devotees in this yuga, if yes, how have they become devotees?? By following the Supreme Father instructions................. So if we dont follow the instructions, then how can we blame Krsna for our follies. A father tolds a child don't go out in sun but the child insists to play out and starts crying continuously until father agrees but then the child becomes sick. Now if the child says you should have stopped me forcefully, then I would not have been sick. Does it make sense? Does any relationship ever exist with force. Relationships only exist when there is love. Father loves his child and instructs him only for his benefit so that he does not suffer in life but the child always think his father is not good as compared to other’s fathers who allow their children to go out for late night movies, clubs, parties etc. etc.
Krsna is Supreme Father, most merciful, most lovable, He loves us a lot and He has given us little independence to take decision, now it’s in our hand whether we want to live a pious life, we want to become a devotee or we want to inculcate demoniac qualities in ourselves. We cannot blame everything on Krsna. When we become successful in business or studies, we want recognition for our hard efforts but when we suffer we want to put blame on God, we are really very smart, so smart that we are enjoying unlimited lives times benefits in 84 Lakhs species of life, see such luxurious lives sometimes inside water, sometimes on land, sometimes on trees, sometimes in ditch, sometimes in drain.................. :)
the story of ajamila is approx from satya yuga even then these things were there.
Regarding Ajamila, hope you have read the story fully. What was Ajamila realization in the last when he repented? Did he not remember his pious parents who wanted to make him a pious man, did not he remember his pious wife who used to assist him in devotional service, did he not remember his wasted sinful life???
Yuga has nothing to do with the activities of the inhabitants, one who take birth in Satyua yuga, Dwapay yuga or Treta yuga are definitely pious people but everyone has got independence to act. So if one wants to act opposite to the Vedic injunctions, contrary to the moral principles they received from their parents then what can Yuga can do this. Ajamila incident can be a example for people like us that devotional activities performed in one’s life are never wasted as in Bhagvad-Gita 2.40 “there is no loss or diminution for devotional service performed by us and even a slight devotional service performed saves us from the greatest danger of sliding down to lower forms of life in 84 Lakhs species of life. This is what we observed in Ajamila’s life, he had been a devotee till he was a youth and in the last moment somehow or other he was able to call Narayana Narayana and was able to go back to Vaikuntha.
I think the above is in very simple terms, if you can understand in right spirits.
Hare Krsna !
Hare Krsna !
Its already been explained in detail by Srila Prabhupada in the same purport, so I don't feel there is any need of discussion on this. The thing which should be noted from there that Krsna is so merciful to even give chance to reform to even prostitute too. Other thing to be noted is prostitutes (can also be) were great devotees.
In the Bhagavad-gita (9.32) the Lord says, "O son of Pritha, even the low-born candalas and those who are born in a family of unbelievers, and even the prostitutes, shall attain perfection of life if they take shelter of unalloyed devotional service to Me, because in the path of devotional service there are no impediments due to degraded birth and occupation. The path is open for everyone who agrees to follow it."
There is one true incident on this. Don't remember their names. Once there was a brahmin who used to study vedic literatures sitting in the balcony of his house and on opposite side there used to live a prostitute. She used to think, had she been fortunate enough she would also be reading Vedic literatures and would have rather utilized her life in devotional service. After some days, there was a fire in that locality and all the houses were burnt. After death, the brahmin found himself in hell while the prostitute was in heaven. Brahmin asked Yamaraj the reason for this. Yamaraj replied that while reading Vedic literatures he used to medidate on the prostitute beautiful body and wanted to enjoy her but the prositute used to respect you because of your brahminicial qualities and wished to study Vedic literatures and worship God. So next birth she will be born as a brahmin in a devotee family. So it does not depend which yuga is going on, one has to pay for his deeds. Moreover in earlier yugas even if one used to think sinfully or think ill of others or even plan to hurt others even in thoughts, it was equally sinful as sin committed physically and one had to pay for it whereas in this Kaliyug it is a better opportunity that we don't have to pay for what we think else we would have been continously being tortured in hell wihtout even a chance to glide down in lower forms of life. We better know ouselves how pure our thinking is. Leave aside doing pious activities people don't even want to listen or think about it. There is another advantage in this yuga that even we think good for others, we get pious points in our account. So at least we can think nicely if not act.
Our birth and our occupation is the result of our own karmas in past life, so what's the big deal if someone is born as a dog, as a pig, as an insect, as a butcher, as a labourer, as a rich man, as a king, as a poor man, as a prostitute or born to a prostitute or born as orphan. Everyone has to account for his own karmas. To be a prositute is not so sinful, it may be due to various circumstances by force, by deceit on pretext of job or marriage etc etc etc etc but the people for whom prostitute exists are more sinful, mostly those who cannot satisfy their senses with their wife, they are like dogs and pigs and will be reborn like dogs or pigs who don't see time, place, and target.
A brief once again from Srila Prabhupada on the same sloka you are referring:
We may not hate even the prostitutes if they are devotees of the Lord. Even to date there are many prostitutes in great cities of India who are sincere devotees of the Lord. By tricks of chance one may be obliged to adopt a profession which is not very adorable in society, but that does not hamper one in executing devotional service to the Lord. Devotional service to the Lord is uncheckable in all circumstances. It is understood herewith that even in those days, about five thousand years ago, there were prostitutes in a city like Dvaraka, where Lord Krishna resided. This means that prostitutes are necessary citizens for the proper upkeep of society. The government opens wine shops, but this does not mean that the government encourages the drinking of wine. The idea is that there is a class of men who will drink at any cost, and it has been experienced that prohibition in great cities encouraged illicit smuggling of wine. Similarly, men who are not satisfied at home require such concessions, and if there is no prostitute, then such low men will induce others into prostitution. It is better that prostitutes be available in the marketplace so that the sanctity of society can be maintained. It is better to maintain a class of prostitutes than to encourage prostitutes within society. The real reformation is to enlighten all people to become devotees of the Lord, and that will check all kinds of deteriorating factors of life.
Hope it is clear.
Hari Bol !
Your servant,
Harish
The king named paundrak thought himself to be Vasudeva and told Krsna to give up claiming to be Vasudeva. so u can see that even such kinds of kings existed during Krsna's times!!!!!!! Only when he came to fight Krsna, Krsna killed him. There were demons who were envious of Krsna, who were killed during His time..
so it is not amazing that Krsna did not stop these things because as Srila Prabhupada has mentioned as soon one becomes devotee , they will develop all good qualities of demigods.. Also these things were not as bad as killing people or tormenting devotees as demons used to do..for whom Krsna had to come to take care..
YS
Hare Krsna Siddhartha P
Humble obeisances
Yes, it is true that such women existed during those times also. Kubja wanted enjoy with Krsna through her profession, and c invited Krsna to her house for the same but as soon as Krsna touched her with His divine FEET, c got purified of all her lusty desires and became completely pure.
"It appears that the prostitutes of Dvaraka, who were so eager to meet the Lord, were all His unalloyed devotees, and thus they were all on the path of salvation according to the above version of the Bhagavad-gita. Therefore, the only reformation that is necessary in society is to make an organized effort to turn the citizens into devotees of the Lord, and thus all good qualities of the denizens of heaven will overtake them in their own way."
As you can see Srila Prabhupada has written that they were unalloyed devotees and they were on path to salvation. Also they were in Dvarika , no one takes birth in dham , until that soul is special. So they must have completed most of their devotional quota in previous lifetimes only. Just to finish the rest, or to perform some pastimes with Lord or for some reason, which we may not know, they took birth there like that.
Also Srila Prabhupada has mentioned that as soon as a people becomes a devotee, all good qualities of the denizens of heaven will overtake them in their own way..
But what we learn from this verse is mentioned in the purport, that some people will always do wrong things in spite of whether it is right or wrong. Srila Prabhupada has mentioned this is the reason that such things were there in previous times also but that does not mean that it was encouraged by Krsna!!! no!!
Your servant
Radhe Radhe!!
Wow! Thanks for pointing such topics out. When I first read the KRSNA book and read the story about kubja.
I was wondering all the time as to why Srila Prabhupada has written this story in such a materialistic way and not in a spiritualistic way.
But after reading this verse from Bhagvatam. I am spellbound.
jai shree Gokulesh