Swaminarayan sahajanand swami & shree chaitanya mahaprabhu both are krishna'Avataar.??
Nobody can claim to be an Avatar of Krishna without any evidence from established scriptures.
There is ample evidence that Lord Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is Krsna Himself. Here is a link that lists some of them.
But it is not 100% mandatory for a person to accept Sri Chaitanya as Krsna (at least in beginning). It suffices if a person accepts Krsna as Supreme personality of Godhead and follows the path of devotional service as given by acaryas , considering Lord Chaitanya as an acarya in the disciplic succession of Brahma-Madhwa sampradaya.
I do not know much about Swami Narayana, but the onus of providing scriptural reference of being incarnation of Krsna is on the questioner. References from scriptures is not a sufficient condition, but only a necessary condition. There are other conditions also.
Without sufficient scriptural references nobody is to be accepted as an avatar of Krsna.
Which devotional path should be choose BAPS OR ISKCON ?
Firstly these are not devotional paths. These both are organizations that facilitate - practice of spirituality.
The path of spirituality encouraged by Iskcon is Krsna consciousness or pure devotional service(bhakti) to Sri Krsna devoid of karma, jnana & moksha. This is the unique process of Bhakti as given by Lord Chaitanya.
The path of spirituality professed by BAPS includes devotional service. But aspects like dharma, karma, jnana, moksha etc are not excluded from bhakti. Whereas Krsna consciousness clearly indicates that nothing other than pure devotional service is required to achieve perfection.
So there is a difference between the two and Pure devotional service is higher than mixed devotional service as given in Srimad Bhagavatam.
Sampradya of Swami Narayana or Lord Chaintanya ?
Sampradaya always originates from Supreme personality of Godhead Himself.
Lord Chaitanya although was Krsna Himself, did not start a new sampradaya per se, but accepted diksha in brahma-madhwa sampradaya. The disciplic succession or sampradaya of acaryas within which Iskcon comes can be seen at the bottom of this page.
Swami Narayana to be an acarya in a sampradaya, the disciplic succession tracing back to Supreme Personality of Godhead has to be established. Swami Narayana cannot be the origin of Sampradaya and be considered as avatar of Krsna. Withough disciplic succession they cannot claim to be sampradaya.
This is not to say that the devotional service they practice is not authentic or is not effective. That is not the point.
The elements of devotional service like Holy name, Deity worship, service to vaishnavas etc are independently very powerful and effective even when practiced without following any sampradaya. But when one practices within the guidelines of sampradaya the chances of a practitioner being swayed away from path of devotional service are much lesser. In other words sampradaya offers a safe and sure path to destination of Krsna Prema. Whereas Devotional service outside sampradaya will be challenging to say the least and can be dangerous.
Also it is pertinent to mention that not all pure devotees need to come in disciplic succession. There have been very great devotees who have not been part of any sampradaya. Meera bai if I'm not wrong is one such example. But again they are exceptions.
Shastric Predictions on Sri Chaitanya
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Swami Narayan followers are known for following strict vaishnav rules so if anyone follows it seriously there is no need to tell him about no shastric pramana to his belief let lord krishna help him. And if anyone is geniune then we can tell him about shastric pramana and authenticity of iskcon and gaudiya vaishnav sampraday.
Even though Swaminayan sampradyaa is not recognized among the 4 main Sampradayas. Only good thing about that is they glorify Lord Krishna. I don't know much about their guru's and all. Whether the follow Vaishnava rules or not also.
Where ever Lord's name is taken in whatever way., (be it shudra or Vaishnava) the place becomes a pilgrimage.
Lord only see Bhakti not which sampradaya you belong or what rules you are following.
As far as not eating food cooked from woman's hands and keeping woman at bay.. This is not correct according to Bhagwat Gita.
As all are souls, Soul has no gender. If they are identifying themselves with the present body which they got.. that means they are still in big time false ego.
You may be a male this life but last life you could be female or an animal who knows. It is simple basic thing first step in being Krishna conscious. Sankhya yoga is the first teaching in bhagwat gita ...If they are not following this then they are surely questionable.
Chapter 2 TEXT 13 BG:
As the embodied soul continually passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. The self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change.
"They mix up food with water before eating, to reduce the sense gratification of the tongue."
I don't think forcibly controlling senses cannot be called purity. One must get dispassionate/renunciate things rather
As per Bhagwat Gita...
Chapter 3 TEXT 6:
One who restrains the senses and organs of action, but whose mind dwells on sense objects, certainly deludes himself and is called a pretender.
==> But I am not the judge to some one's bhakti. Whatever they maybe ..Vaishnava or some other sect also.
Taking Lord's name in some form..Narayana..somehow makes them bhakts and devotees of Lord.
Ajamila took just once the name of Narayana.. he was saved.
Valmiki took ulta name of Rama.. as "Mara'' continously .. he is also saved.
But discriminating woman is not according to Bhagwat gita. Soul has no gender basic rule.
I asked for scriptural reference, you have given their own scripture!!! Wonderful.
So eating food cooked by women makes one impure - even more wonderful!!! So what about the entire human race who drinks mother's milk from the moment they are born till they are old enough to eat or drink anything else? Now you will argue that mother's milk cannot be compared with any other female's cooking? Think about it - differentiating food on the basis of whether it is cooked by male or female is very much on the bodily platform rather than differentiating food on the basis of consciousness with which it has been prepared - whether by devotee or by non devotee. Gita also mentions food in the mode of goodness, passion and ignorance. Gita doesnt differentiate between food cooked by male or female. So you are going above the Gita to decide what is purity and what is impurity?
Who is more pure and who is less pure, what is truth and what is not - so you are deciding. Basis? Scriptures? Mental speculation doesnt sell in gaudiya vaishnava sampradaya prabhuji.
All this is phalgu vairagya, not at all recommended by acharyas in our parampara.
Its not that everybody in ISKCON is a pure devotee. Like Srila Prabhupada used to say, you cannot come to a hospital to see only fit people. There will be diseased people in the hospital. Similarly, there will be conditioned souls in ISKCON, the difference is that these souls know they are conditioned and are trying to become pure, by the recommended process of chanting 16 rounds of mahamantra, following 4 regulative principles, following ekadasi and other gaudiya vaishnav festivals. We do not believe in more austerity than this. This itself, if done properly, is enough austerity in today's world.
For further clarification, Swaminarayan Bhagwan's father Hariprasad Pande was also known as Dharmadev, and his mother Premvati Pande was also known as Bhaktimata.
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Hare Krsna
Swaminarayan sahajanand swami & shree chaitanya mahaprabhu both are krishna'Avataar.??
Nobody can claim to be an Avatar of Krishna without any evidence from established scriptures.
There is ample evidence that Lord Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is Krsna Himself. Here is a link that lists some of them.
But it is not 100% mandatory for a person to accept Sri Chaitanya as Krsna (at least in beginning). It suffices if a person accepts Krsna as Supreme personality of Godhead and follows the path of devotional service as given by acaryas , considering Lord Chaitanya as an acarya in the disciplic succession of Brahma-Madhwa sampradaya.
I do not know much about Swami Narayana, but the onus of providing scriptural reference of being incarnation of Krsna is on the questioner. References from scriptures is not a sufficient condition, but only a necessary condition. There are other conditions also.
Without sufficient scriptural references nobody is to be accepted as an avatar of Krsna.
Which devotional path should be choose BAPS OR ISKCON ?
Firstly these are not devotional paths. These both are organizations that facilitate - practice of spirituality.
The path of spirituality encouraged by Iskcon is Krsna consciousness or pure devotional service(bhakti) to Sri Krsna devoid of karma, jnana & moksha. This is the unique process of Bhakti as given by Lord Chaitanya.
The path of spirituality professed by BAPS includes devotional service. But aspects like dharma, karma, jnana, moksha etc are not excluded from bhakti. Whereas Krsna consciousness clearly indicates that nothing other than pure devotional service is required to achieve perfection.
So there is a difference between the two and Pure devotional service is higher than mixed devotional service as given in Srimad Bhagavatam.
Sampradya of Swami Narayana or Lord Chaintanya ?
Sampradaya always originates from Supreme personality of Godhead Himself.
Lord Chaitanya although was Krsna Himself, did not start a new sampradaya per se, but accepted diksha in brahma-madhwa sampradaya. The disciplic succession or sampradaya of acaryas within which Iskcon comes can be seen at the bottom of this page.
Swami Narayana to be an acarya in a sampradaya, the disciplic succession tracing back to Supreme Personality of Godhead has to be established. Swami Narayana cannot be the origin of Sampradaya and be considered as avatar of Krsna. Withough disciplic succession they cannot claim to be sampradaya.
This is not to say that the devotional service they practice is not authentic or is not effective. That is not the point.
The elements of devotional service like Holy name, Deity worship, service to vaishnavas etc are independently very powerful and effective even when practiced without following any sampradaya. But when one practices within the guidelines of sampradaya the chances of a practitioner being swayed away from path of devotional service are much lesser. In other words sampradaya offers a safe and sure path to destination of Krsna Prema. Whereas Devotional service outside sampradaya will be challenging to say the least and can be dangerous.
Also it is pertinent to mention that not all pure devotees need to come in disciplic succession. There have been very great devotees who have not been part of any sampradaya. Meera bai if I'm not wrong is one such example. But again they are exceptions.
Very Rightly said.! Bharat Prabhu.
Haribol!
Hare Krishna..,
Even though Swaminayan sampradyaa is not recognized among the 4 main Sampradayas. Only good thing about that is they glorify Lord Krishna. I don't know much about their guru's and all. Whether the follow Vaishnava rules or not also.
Where ever Lord's name is taken in whatever way., (be it shudra or Vaishnava) the place becomes a pilgrimage.
Lord only see Bhakti not which sampradaya you belong or what rules you are following.
As far as not eating food cooked from woman's hands and keeping woman at bay.. This is not correct according to Bhagwat Gita.
As all are souls, Soul has no gender. If they are identifying themselves with the present body which they got.. that means they are still in big time false ego.
You may be a male this life but last life you could be female or an animal who knows. It is simple basic thing first step in being Krishna conscious. Sankhya yoga is the first teaching in bhagwat gita ...If they are not following this then they are surely questionable.
Chapter 2 TEXT 13 BG:
As the embodied soul continually passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. The self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change.
"They mix up food with water before eating, to reduce the sense gratification of the tongue."
I don't think forcibly controlling senses cannot be called purity. One must get dispassionate/renunciate things rather
As per Bhagwat Gita...
Chapter 3 TEXT 6:
One who restrains the senses and organs of action, but whose mind dwells on sense objects, certainly deludes himself and is called a pretender.
==> But I am not the judge to some one's bhakti. Whatever they maybe ..Vaishnava or some other sect also.
Taking Lord's name in some form..Narayana..somehow makes them bhakts and devotees of Lord.
Ajamila took just once the name of Narayana.. he was saved.
Valmiki took ulta name of Rama.. as "Mara'' continously .. he is also saved.
But discriminating woman is not according to Bhagwat gita. Soul has no gender basic rule.
Hare Krishna.
Well said Kamlesh prabhu. Haribol!!!!
JSK
Hare KRsna Prabhuji,
PAMHO.
I asked for scriptural reference, you have given their own scripture!!! Wonderful.
So eating food cooked by women makes one impure - even more wonderful!!! So what about the entire human race who drinks mother's milk from the moment they are born till they are old enough to eat or drink anything else? Now you will argue that mother's milk cannot be compared with any other female's cooking? Think about it - differentiating food on the basis of whether it is cooked by male or female is very much on the bodily platform rather than differentiating food on the basis of consciousness with which it has been prepared - whether by devotee or by non devotee. Gita also mentions food in the mode of goodness, passion and ignorance. Gita doesnt differentiate between food cooked by male or female. So you are going above the Gita to decide what is purity and what is impurity?
Who is more pure and who is less pure, what is truth and what is not - so you are deciding. Basis? Scriptures? Mental speculation doesnt sell in gaudiya vaishnava sampradaya prabhuji.
All this is phalgu vairagya, not at all recommended by acharyas in our parampara.
Its not that everybody in ISKCON is a pure devotee. Like Srila Prabhupada used to say, you cannot come to a hospital to see only fit people. There will be diseased people in the hospital. Similarly, there will be conditioned souls in ISKCON, the difference is that these souls know they are conditioned and are trying to become pure, by the recommended process of chanting 16 rounds of mahamantra, following 4 regulative principles, following ekadasi and other gaudiya vaishnav festivals. We do not believe in more austerity than this. This itself, if done properly, is enough austerity in today's world.
Haribol,
Your servant,
Radha Rasamayi DD
Hare KRsna Prabhuji,
PAMHO.
Pls give scriptural reference that Swaminarayan Sahajanand Swami is avatar of Krsna? Where it is mentioned?
Haribol,
Your servant,
Radha Rasamayi DD
Jay Swaminarayan, Hare Krishna,
This link by the Swaminarayan Mandir Kundaldham gives scriptural refrence about Swaminarayan Bhagwan
https://www.swaminarayanbhagwan.org/about-us/god
For further clarification, Swaminarayan Bhagwan's father Hariprasad Pande was also known as Dharmadev, and his mother Premvati Pande was also known as Bhaktimata.