Surrender

Hare Krishna,

Please accept my humble obeicances, All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.

I have a question about surrender...

It seems to me personally that I have stages in which I want to surrender completely,

give up my non-devotee connections, give up my desires and lusts for wordly things,

give up everything that is not Krishna Concious (which is a lot).
In those days I only listen to bhajans, kirtans, Krishna stories, lectures and I chant my rounds, dream of Krishna, do service in the temple etc.

I feel like I'm going somewhere with my Krishna Conciousness, feeling like I start to understand the bliss of real devotees, feel protected and loved.

But then it happens just one day later, first I just feel blend, sleepy, not inspired to chant or listen/read/etc, I feel a bit punished by Krishna by which I mean not allowed to have what I want besides KC. I want to go to normal parties, buy pretty clothes which I dont wear to the temple, have a relationship with my non-devotee boyfriend who will probably never be a devotee, eat chocolate, dont be difficult about everything. Form my own opinions and not always follow sastra all the time.

At the same time I still want to do all the Krishna conciouss service, but I know by now from experience that its very hard, if not impossible to have them both. You cannot get spiritual bliss if you want material bliss aswell. I know. You cant have 2 masters.

I wonder at what point other devotees make the choice and stick with it to become completely Krishna Conciouss. I know you won't make progress if you just do it half heartedly and probably will fall down and leave it all together. After all the mind follows the strongest desire.

When and how do you become completely detached ? I have the feeling I have to start living like a sanyasi but with a household ( 1 person) if I really want to be KC. How is that possible for a woman alone in the mecca of maya ? (Amsterdam) I can tell you its very hard.

The problem is my desire seems to go two ways very much one side and very much the other side.
Its very confusing. I know this is a very common thing for devotees but hardly ever spoken off. It should not be such a taboo because it isolates people.
The moment I drop my 100% commitment to a 50% commitment is the moment I can't fall back on anything anymore. Especially being alone in KC in my family and the friends I do have in KC are not very close, its all on my shoulders.

I get pulled from two sides and almost feel my mind splitting.
I heared it happens a lot that devotees become splitted in the mind, having one side thats a perfect devotee and the other side is demoniac. I see that it used to be longer periods where I chose one or the other side, its getting closer now, like minutes... one minute I think this, the other I want that.

You will probably tell me just chant and desires will go away but maya pulls so hard that I cant/wont chant my rounds. Its confusing.

Am I too hard or to soft on myself ? Too impatient or does it stay difficult like this?

Sorry for typing such a long story but I had to get it off my chest and I am sure that I am not the only one who struggles with these feelings. Again; it fluctuates some days I am surrendered and other days I like to take that back and start at neophyte again and again and again.. ( ofcourse I never leave neophyte stage like that I know but sometimes it doesn feel like I am more advanced and just lazy to go on or scared.)

I would like advice from your own experience because I do know what the sciptures say:

follow 4 regulated principles, chant, offer everything to Krishna etc. ( I try to but thats exactly where maya starts to pull me away at times )

Hari bol and thank you in advance.

fasting is always recommended, not only just one day in the week or month,

but as much as possible, especially for those who wanna progress in bhakty yoga :

SB 5.5.1 — Lord Ṛṣabhadeva told His sons: My dear boys, of all the living entities who have accepted material bodies in this world, one who has been awarded this human form should not work hard day and night simply for sense gratification, which is available even for dogs and hogs that eat stool. One should engage in penance and austerity to attain the divine position of devotional service. By such activity, one’s heart is purified, and when one attains this position, he attains eternal, blissful life, which is transcendental to material happiness and which continues forever.

fasting and studying srimad bhagavatam is divine nectar :

SB 12.12.61 — One who controls his mind, fasts at the holy places Puṣkara, Mathurā or Dvārakā, and studies this scripture will be freed from all fear.

or what about nectar of chanting and fasting :

SB 6.16.27 — Fasting and drinking only water, Citraketu for one week continuously chanted with great care and attention the mantra given by Nārada Muni.

sri gourakisora babaji use to say :

"One who wants bhojana (eating palatably) will spoil his bhajana,"

how sad it is, that in kali yuga eating is accepted as highest religion :

SB 12.2.6 — A sacred place will be taken to consist of no more than a reservoir of water located at a distance, and beauty will be thought to depend on one’s hairstyle. Filling the belly will become the goal of life, and one who is audacious will be accepted as truthful. He who can maintain a family will be regarded as an expert man, and the principles of religion will be observed only for the sake of reputation.

Replies

adam steinberg February 14, 2015 at 3:28pm

Relative and absolute. I speak for me personally, not an authority on this. But everything is One, God is one, it is all. But neglect yourself and how can you serve anything? If you can stay up 24 hours a day and chant, great, go for it. If it makes you sick or you become so tired that its not serving a purpose, why do it? I don't eat a lot, i don't need to anymore, but when I am hungry I make sure to eat. I've done the whole deprivation thing. You may feel more spiritual...until you start to degrade physically. If I am tired, I try to rest. I am more awake for this life when I get what my body needs for sleep. You want to eliminate desires, it doesn't mean you can not feel or have the experience of certain things, it just means that longing and chasing after that experience will lead to grief. Lust is simply the clinging and chasing of a desire, not the experience itself. Rashmi has great advice for that. Once a week I personally do take a shorter meditation day, sometimes its more like once a month. But this allows me to get out of my own head. Sometimes being too introspective is not good and outward expression is needed. Its a fine balance, but take care of yourself as well as your service..in my opinion. :)
3f21ivo10p1mx February 13, 2015 at 7:32pm

establishing personal intimate relationship with god is one of essential things in bhakty yoga.

talking with him, remembering him, dancing and singing for him, praying to him,thinking on him, asking for his protection,...

you dont need to be perfect bhakty yogi who controlling his senses in bhakti yoga to reach gods association and abode,

instead you can occupy your mind with god, like vraja villagers.

anyway , those who took the path of sadhana bhakty and cant follow principles and rules of that path,

is recommending only one medicine- fasting.
- Subhadra Prema devi dasi > 3f21ivo10p1mx February 13, 2015 at 8:29pm
  
  hari bol dean prabhu,
  
  Thank you for your reply, I dont know what you mean by fasting... I need prasadam very much !
  Do you mean fasting from certain food ?
  
  If anything I love to cook for Krishna and have prasadam. I can't imagine fasting for a longer period of time.
  I fast on ekadashi from grains and on holy-days I fast as subscribed.
  
  Occupying the mind with God can be tricky if maya thoughts set in, remember even demons have their minds occupied by God, not with love but hate but occupied however.
  I know myself to sometimes think of Krishna all day and still be in maya, thinking myself to be poor (poor me cant eternally enjoy maya activities ;) ) while actually I am spoiled by Krishna, he makes it easy on us, but I think in kali-yuga we are too egocentric to notice.
  
  Also I can not be expected to be like Vrajabasi's, they are allready pure and live in the holy dham.
  Perfection should be the aim in my humble opinion, knowing It might not be reachable for a common jiva like me.
  yes for me its best to establish and keep going this personal relationship which I have been blessed with and not look at the mundane when I loose taste for a moment.
  
  Please pray for me to stay in this mindset and never let go again of the mercy of devotees like yourself.
  - 3f21ivo10p1mx > Subhadra Prema devi dasi February 13, 2015 at 8:48pm
    
    fasting means no food , but any way,
    
    SB 10.29.24 — The highest religious duty for a woman is to sincerely serve her husband, behave well toward her husband’s family and take good care of her children.
    
    SB 6.19.17 — Accepting her husband as the representative of the Supreme Person, a wife should worship him with unalloyed devotion by offering him prasāda. The husband, being very pleased with his wife, should engage himself in the affairs of his family.
    
    SB 6.19.18 — Between the husband and wife, one person is sufficient to execute this devotional service. Because of their good relationship, both of them will enjoy the result. Therefore if the wife is unable to execute this process, the husband should carefully do so, and the faithful wife will share the result.
    - Subhadra Prema devi dasi > 3f21ivo10p1mx February 13, 2015 at 9:03pm
      
      prabhuji, I am single since last week :( allthough still friends with my former boyfriend who is not a devotee. Doesn't seem wise to follow him as he will lead me straight into maya as all he wants to do is enjoy material life. I dont have any children so I have to be my own husband and child.
      I guess that goes for a lot of people who live outside the temple, man or woman.
      
      No food is not possible in this age, it wouldnt be a medicine but certain death from starvation!?
      - 3f21ivo10p1mx > Subhadra Prema devi dasi February 14, 2015 at 2:09am
        
        i didnt said fasting till death, but fasting one day in the week will be nice.
        
        reading srimad bhagavatam and singing holy names will give you blessings.
        
        association with vaishnavas will keep you away from demon kali .
        
        E-Counselor
        
        Radha Rasamayi DD > 3f21ivo10p1mx February 16, 2015 at 10:19am
        
        Hare KRsna Dean Prabhuji,
        
        PAMHO.
        
        Fasting once a week is not receommended in the scriptures? You always give scriptural reference - so thats why I am asking.
        
        As for HG Subhadra Prema Devi Dasi, mataji maybe you could eat only fruits and milk on ekadasi as a way to detox your body from all the drugs you took recently. Do only if its workable for you.
        
        I am glad you started the diary. Hopefully it will give you the answers you are seeking.
        
        Haribol,
        
        Your servant,
        Rashmi
        
        3f21ivo10p1mx > Radha Rasamayi DD February 16, 2015 at 6:21pm
        
        fasting is always recommended, not only just one day in the week or month,
        
        but as much as possible, especially for those who wanna progress in bhakty yoga :
        
        SB 5.5.1 — Lord Ṛṣabhadeva told His sons: My dear boys, of all the living entities who have accepted material bodies in this world, one who has been awarded this human form should not work hard day and night simply for sense gratification, which is available even for dogs and hogs that eat stool. One should engage in penance and austerity to attain the divine position of devotional service. By such activity, one’s heart is purified, and when one attains this position, he attains eternal, blissful life, which is transcendental to material happiness and which continues forever.
        
        .
        
        fasting and studying srimad bhagavatam is divine nectar :
        
        SB 12.12.61 — One who controls his mind, fasts at the holy places Puṣkara, Mathurā or Dvārakā, and studies this scripture will be freed from all fear.
        
        .
        
        or what about nectar of chanting and fasting :
        
        SB 6.16.27 — Fasting and drinking only water, Citraketu for one week continuously chanted with great care and attention the mantra given by Nārada Muni.
        
        .
        
        sri gourakisora babaji use to say :
        
        "One who wants bhojana (eating palatably) will spoil his bhajana,"
        
        .
        
        how sad it is, that in kali yuga eating is accepted as highest religion :
        
        SB 12.2.6 — A sacred place will be taken to consist of no more than a reservoir of water located at a distance, and beauty will be thought to depend on one’s hairstyle. Filling the belly will become the goal of life, and one who is audacious will be accepted as truthful. He who can maintain a family will be regarded as an expert man, and the principles of religion will be observed only for the sake of reputation.
        
        Subhadra Prema devi dasi > Radha Rasamayi DD February 16, 2015 at 1:15pm
        
        Hare Krishna mataji,
        
        After writing this topic I vowed to myself to keep chanting 16 rounds again because I understood from within that my running away from Krishna on certain days just made me feel unhappy and that its all so much easier when you chant 16 rounds.
        
        HDG Srila Prabhupada did not tell us 16 rounds for no reason, it is indeed the minimum to stay fixed.
        
        When I wrote my diary I found I was just looking for excuses and thats not a sign of strong character. So since I started the topic I chanted 16 rounds and did temple service and felt renewed and blissfull, very happy in general. I know it sounds cheesy but it can really be easy too. I hope I will not make excuses again to think this process is difficult. Drug use in the past has made making excuses very easy, like a habit.I know there will be hard days to come but for now Krishna took mercy on me and I am very satisfied doing my rounds.
        
        On ekadasi I prefer to eat normally (ekadasi style) except on maha ekadasi where I will fast completely from water and food. I believe detox will occur trough chanting and eating prasadam and having firm faith. I use extra vitamins to get back to strength. The drugs i used was not the worst kind ( as you might imagine I want to take that doubt away) but it was bad anyway to have used it at all.
        The only drugs I will take now and the rest of my days is Krishna service, which gives the best possible happiness and bliss one can imagine. Hari bol !
        
        Thank you all for your input, it feels like you are my spiritual family by helping eachother like this. Please accept my humble obeicances.
        
        adam steinberg > Subhadra Prema devi dasi February 16, 2015 at 1:31pm
        
        i didnt gather it from your post....maybe u two know eachother. You certainly do not have to post what you were using, id just be curious. I hear many times, not the worst and someone has a script for anti anxiety meds or something of the sort. There are some that will definitely effect meditative practices..including chanting, in very specific ways for decent durations. I wish you luck, if your curious on symptoms though you can ask me...one area i unfortunately/fortunately have plenty of experience.

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