i am sorry i am posting this discussion again but i have to. i came to krishna consciousness in august 2013 but in may 2015 i came to live in a house with my family. the house was deserted and was home to 3 demonic spirits . these spirits attacked me and slowly posessed me and my mind. and they now force me to commit vaishnava ninda. the pressure on me is so much that i cannot handle and i commit vaishnava ninda. i have commited now many vaishnava apradhas and i am suffering a lot. please help me how should i deal with this problem. i will ask forgiveness from the devotees i offended as sonn as i get rid of the spirit.i have lost all bhakti and i am most sinful man on earth please anyone please help me.
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first of all may god bless u with peace and prosparity.
look this is kaliyuga and here u need patience to deel with all the circumstatnces,firstly u chant the hare krishna maha mantra more sitting at a suitable place in ur home.do recite hanuman chalisa and show the jataka kundali to some well known priest who can tell weather that house is suitable for u or not sometimes the house itself will not accept people to stay der . if can afford and if time permits do vaastu,ganapathi and sri narasimha homa and navagraha shanti and if u cant do all these try to do sri satyanarayana vrath puja on every pournima evening at your home.do worry about the offenses u have done do follow this procedure ur sins will be washed off and god itself will show u the way...
Cannot help if cant believe . Open youtube . Search Abhay Charan serial produced by HH Bhakti Charu Swami and watch it . This incident is shown towards the end episodes . There BVT has explained the reason to cut off the tantrik's hair . I believe only as I have faith in BVT and some personal miseries caused by tantriks .
We understand only what we are qualified to understand . If cannot understand anything then we have to surrender to acharyas . This is the process . We cannot just challange without any knowledge . It is good to be curious but please know IDT is a place of faith . Can you see Krishna now ? But you are here as you have some faith . That faith will take you forward . Tantras are there in scriptures and it exist .
KUBER BHAKT > GopalKrishna DasMarch 14, 2016 at 2:52pm
Respected prabhu,
there are not one not two but several cases where a tantric has not only robbed the victim of lakhs of rupees under the pretext of sadhana but he made the victim kill innocent people mostly children which is called Narbali or he himself has killed the victim. this is my main concern & time and again this happens. Moreover this has also happened in urban areas. considering these facts one should not promote such things because then people will say tantric sadhana is greater than Krishna. Krishna cant protect us. they will ridicule iskcon and the devotees and they will be right. on one hand we say surrender to Krishna on other hand you say take tantric help. even though tantra exist in scriptures atleast iskcon should not promote such things.
I have become Krishna conscious because I may have done some genuine Krishna seva in previous birth just by reading few line of Prabhupadas books I concluded that I need to worship only Krishna whereas others jumped to his many wives gopis and ridiculed him.
I agree to your points . They are many fake people . But there are lots of people practicing tantra who are not fake . Nor does everyone is harmful . What I have been trying to say is that if one is affected by some spirits or whatever then must consult a genuine tantrik . I have given example of BVT only to show the genuinity of tantra .
It is not that Mahamantra is not powerful enough . When one is possessed then he does not have the power to invoke the power of Mahamantra . External help is needed in form of medication and tantriks(if possessed).
Tantrik sadhana is tamashik sadhana to get dark powers . Only the worship of Maa Kamala in Tantra is in sadvik mode . The goal of vaishnava sadhana is becoming associate of Lord while tantra is mostly impersonal it its epitome. However in tantra also there are some process where people get rid of false ego and greed and strive for helping others . This is a different topic . I don't intent to discuss about this any further.
Kids and false devotees out of ego fight over the superiority not genuine sadhakas who does not care about this and are fixed in their process .
@ Abhay Prabhu , In addition to medication and all other process you are following please consult a genuine tantrik in your locality if you think you are possessed.
KUBER BHAKT > GopalKrishna DasMarch 15, 2016 at 10:30am
ok prabhu 200 years ago there must have been a genuine tantric but todays time where lust is predominant and whole atmosphere is polluted both materially and spiritually one should not get into this matter. yes I am a false devotee. each time I call out Krishna in crisis he immediately comes to my rescue and then I forget him in times of happiness then again I call out him in crisis he again helps me out. So if Krishna helps a condemned false devotee like me why cant he help out true devotees like topic starter!! and I am not fighting for some superiority. this is a genuine problem and it has ruined lots of lives and families.
Offenses Their Consequences and Rectifications by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
More than inviting sinful reactions,offenses can uproot and destroy the tender devotional creeper we are struggling to cultivate.
Beware of the Following Actions : It is indicated herein that if there is negligence on the part of the priest, the demigods do not accept their share in sacrifices. Similarly, in devotional service there are offenses known as seva-aparadha. Those who are engaged in worshiping the Deity, Radha and Krishna, in the temple, should avoid such offenses in service. The offenses in service are described in The Nectar of Devotion. If we simply make a show of offering services to the Deity but do not care for the seva-aparadha. certainly the Radha-Krishna Deity will not accept offerings from such non devotees. Devotees engaged in temple worship should not, therefore, manufacture their own methods, but should strictly follow the regulative principles of cleanliness, and then offerings will be accepted. – Bhagavatam 4.21.37; purport
To interpret Bhagavad-gita without any reference to the will of Krishna is the greatest offense. In order to save oneself from this offense, one has to understand the Lord as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, as He was directly understood by Arjuna, Lord Krishna' s first disciple.- Bhagavad-gita Preface
To take Srimad-Bhagavatam as a means of maintaining family expenditure is the grossest type of namaparadha offense at the feet of the Lord (sarva-subha-kriya-samyam api pramadah). – Bhagavatam 2.4.2, purport
It is a great offense, therefore, to consider Krishna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, to be an ordinary man. Those who do so are certainly deluded because they cannot understand the eternal form of Krishna, The Brhad-visnu-smrti clearly states:
yo vetti bhautikam deham krishnasya paramatmanah sa sarvasmad bahis-karyah srauta-smarta-vidhanatah mukham tasyavalokyapi sa-celam snanam: acaret
"One who considers the body of Krishna to be material should be driven out from all rituals and activities of the stuti and the stuti. And if one by chance sees his face, one should at once take bath in the Ganges to rid himself of infection." People jeer at Krishna because they are envious of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Their destiny is certainly to take birth after birth in the species of atheistic and demoniac life. Perpetually, their real knowledge will remain under delusion, and gradually they will regress to the darkest region of creation. – Bhagavad-gita 9.12, purport
In human society, aversion to the principles of understanding the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the cause of all fall downs. That is the greatest offense of human life. – Bhagavad-gita 16.24, purport
Vaishnava Aparadha the Greatest Offense
Vaishnava-aparadha is very, very offensive. You should be very careful. Caitanya Mahaprabhu has warned vaishava-aparadha, hatimata. Vaishnava-aparadha, offense at the feet of Vaishnava, is exactly like mad elephant. If a mad elephant enters your garden, then he spoils everything. This has been given. Vaishnava-aparadha means hatimata. Mata means mad, and hati means elephant. So we should be very, very careful not to commit any offense at the feet of vaishnava. Vaishnava does not take any offense. He does not care who is offender, but Krishna takes care. Krishna will never tolerate if a person commits Vaishava-aparadha. Mind that. Just like a big man -you can offend him, he doesn't mind. But if you harm his child, he becomes very angry. – Lecture on Srimad-Bhagavatam 5.5.33, Vrindavana, November 20, 1976
An offense at the lotus feet of the Lord is sometimes excused by the merciful Lord, but an offense at the feet of a devotee is very dangerous for one who actually wants to make progress in devotional service. – Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1, Introduction
When an offense is done unto the devotee of the Lord, it is very difficult to overcome the reaction. The brahmanas, being at the head of the social orders, are meant to give protection to their subordinates and not to curse them. There are occasions when a brahmana may furiously curse a subordinate kshatriya or vaishya, etc., but in the case of Maharaja Parikshit there were no grounds, as already explained. The foolish boy had done it out of sheer vanity in being a brahmana's son, and thus he became liable to be punished by the law of God. The Lord never forgives a person who condemns His pure devotee. Therefore, by cursing a king the foolish Srngi had committed not only a sin but also the greatest offense. – Bhagavatam 1.18.47; purport
Devotee: Prabhupada Does Lord Jesus Christ appear in the spiritual sky with the body he manifested on the earth?
Prabhupada: Yes. Otherwise how there can be resurrection? Ordinary body cannot be resurrected. He appeared in his spiritual body, certainly. Jesus Christ told, if I remember, that "Lord, excuse these persons," who were crucifying him. Is it not? He knew that "These rascals, they are killing me, but… They are offending certainly. So they do not know that I cannot be killed, but they are thinking that they are killing." You see? But that was offensive, therefore he begged Lord to be excused because God cannot excuse to the offenders of the devotee. He can excuse one who is offender to God, but if somebody is offender to the devotee, God never excuses. Therefore he prayed for them. That is devotee's qualification. He prays for everyone, even of his enemy. – Lecture on Bhagavad-gita 4.1- 6, Los Angeles, January 3, 1969
Hellish Mentality
Therefore it is forbidden, arcye sila-dhlr gurusu nara-matih. If you think the Deity as sila, means stone, and gurusu nara-matih, if you think guru as ordinary human being, vaisnave jati-buddhi, and if you think a Vaishnava, "He is American Vaishnava, He is Indian Vaishnava." jati buddhi naraki – you become naraki immediately. – Lecture on Srimad-Bhagavatam 7.12.6, Bombey. April 17; 1976
The respect and recognition of Bhishmadeva are never to be imitated by artificial means, as it has become a fashion to observe the so-called jayanti ceremony for any and every common man. According to authorized shastras, such a jayanti ceremony for an ordinary man, however exalted he may be materially, is an offense to the Lord because jayanti is reserved for the day when the Lord appears on the earth. – Bhagavatam 1.9.45, purport
"If one's heart does not change, tears do not flow from his eyes, his body does not shiver, and his bodily hairs do not stand on end as he chants the Hare Krishna maha-mantra, it should be understood that his heart is as hard as iron. This is due to his offenses at the lotus feet of the Lord's holy name." – Cc. Adi, 8.25
Freedom from Offenses
The water of the Ganges sanctifies all the three worlds, including the gods and the demigods, because it emanates from the lotus feet of the Personality of Godhead Vishnu, Lord Krishna is the fountainhead of the principle of vishnu-tattva, and therefore shelter of His lotus feet can deliver one from all sins, including an offense committed by a king unto a brahmana. – Bhagavatam 1.19.7 purport
The holy saints actually have no self-interest with the householders. The only aim of such saints is to sanctify the houses of the householders, and the householders therefore should feel grateful when such saints and sages appear at their doors. A householder who dishonors such holy orders is a great offender. It is enjoined, therefore, that a householder who does not bow down before a saint at once must undergo fasting for the day in order to neutralize the great offense. – Bhagavatam 1.19.33, purport
There are ten offenses in the chanting of the Hare Krishna maha-mantra, but these are not considered in the chanting of the Pancha-tattva mantra, namely, sri krishna-caitanya prabhu-nityananda sri-advaita gadadhara srivasadi-gaura-bhakta-vrnda. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is known as maha-vadanyavatara, the most magnanimous incarnation, for He does not consider the offenses of the fallen souls. Thus to derive the full benefit of the chanting of the maha-mantra (Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare), we must first take shelter of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, learn the Pancha-tattva maha-mantra, and then chant the Hare Krishna maha-mantra. That will be very effective.- Cc. Ad! 7.4, purport
The Power of the Holy Name The powerful holy name of the Lord can certainly deliver one from sinful effects, but one who desires to utilize this transcendental potency of the holy name of the Lord in one's sinister activities is the most degraded person in the world. Such persons are never excused by the Lord or by any agent of the Lord. One should, therefore, utilize one's life in glorifying the Lord by all means, without any offense. – Bhagavatam 2.1.12, purport
Namno balad yasya hi papa-buddhih. If one thinks that "I am chanting Hare Krishna mantra, so my sinful resultant actions are now nullified. Now again let me do it. Again I shall nullify." This is greatest offense. –
Lecture on Bhagavad-gita 4.10, Bombay, March 30, 1974
Why are you waiting for those spirits to get down and then go ask for forgiveness. Just the time we realize that we have committed some offence we should beg forgiveness from them.
Replies
hare krishna.
first of all may god bless u with peace and prosparity.
look this is kaliyuga and here u need patience to deel with all the circumstatnces,firstly u chant the hare krishna maha mantra more sitting at a suitable place in ur home.do recite hanuman chalisa and show the jataka kundali to some well known priest who can tell weather that house is suitable for u or not sometimes the house itself will not accept people to stay der . if can afford and if time permits do vaastu,ganapathi and sri narasimha homa and navagraha shanti and if u cant do all these try to do sri satyanarayana vrath puja on every pournima evening at your home.do worry about the offenses u have done do follow this procedure ur sins will be washed off and god itself will show u the way...
it my opinion and suggestion..
any more queries u can contact me.
yours friendly,
vinay
-------------------------------------------------------hare krishna-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hare Krishna to All Devotees,
Suffering will only disappear if we follow this instruction.
Haribol always,
krsnaraja melvin
just by shaving off tantriks hair BVT was cured. ok prabhu...... very hard to believe though (on offences)
Cannot help if cant believe . Open youtube . Search Abhay Charan serial produced by HH Bhakti Charu Swami and watch it . This incident is shown towards the end episodes . There BVT has explained the reason to cut off the tantrik's hair . I believe only as I have faith in BVT and some personal miseries caused by tantriks .
We understand only what we are qualified to understand . If cannot understand anything then we have to surrender to acharyas . This is the process . We cannot just challange without any knowledge . It is good to be curious but please know IDT is a place of faith . Can you see Krishna now ? But you are here as you have some faith . That faith will take you forward . Tantras are there in scriptures and it exist .
Respected prabhu,
there are not one not two but several cases where a tantric has not only robbed the victim of lakhs of rupees under the pretext of sadhana but he made the victim kill innocent people mostly children which is called Narbali or he himself has killed the victim. this is my main concern & time and again this happens. Moreover this has also happened in urban areas. considering these facts one should not promote such things because then people will say tantric sadhana is greater than Krishna. Krishna cant protect us. they will ridicule iskcon and the devotees and they will be right. on one hand we say surrender to Krishna on other hand you say take tantric help. even though tantra exist in scriptures atleast iskcon should not promote such things.
I have become Krishna conscious because I may have done some genuine Krishna seva in previous birth just by reading few line of Prabhupadas books I concluded that I need to worship only Krishna whereas others jumped to his many wives gopis and ridiculed him.
br,
Satish
Dear Satish Prabhu,
I agree to your points . They are many fake people . But there are lots of people practicing tantra who are not fake . Nor does everyone is harmful . What I have been trying to say is that if one is affected by some spirits or whatever then must consult a genuine tantrik . I have given example of BVT only to show the genuinity of tantra .
It is not that Mahamantra is not powerful enough . When one is possessed then he does not have the power to invoke the power of Mahamantra . External help is needed in form of medication and tantriks(if possessed).
Tantrik sadhana is tamashik sadhana to get dark powers . Only the worship of Maa Kamala in Tantra is in sadvik mode . The goal of vaishnava sadhana is becoming associate of Lord while tantra is mostly impersonal it its epitome. However in tantra also there are some process where people get rid of false ego and greed and strive for helping others . This is a different topic . I don't intent to discuss about this any further.
Kids and false devotees out of ego fight over the superiority not genuine sadhakas who does not care about this and are fixed in their process .
@ Abhay Prabhu , In addition to medication and all other process you are following please consult a genuine tantrik in your locality if you think you are possessed.
ok prabhu 200 years ago there must have been a genuine tantric but todays time where lust is predominant and whole atmosphere is polluted both materially and spiritually one should not get into this matter. yes I am a false devotee. each time I call out Krishna in crisis he immediately comes to my rescue and then I forget him in times of happiness then again I call out him in crisis he again helps me out. So if Krishna helps a condemned false devotee like me why cant he help out true devotees like topic starter!! and I am not fighting for some superiority. this is a genuine problem and it has ruined lots of lives and families.
by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
More than inviting sinful reactions,offenses can uproot and destroy the tender devotional creeper we are struggling to cultivate.
Beware of the Following Actions : It is indicated herein that if there is negligence on the part of the priest, the demigods do not accept their share in sacrifices. Similarly, in devotional service there are offenses known as seva-aparadha. Those who are engaged in worshiping the Deity, Radha and Krishna, in the temple, should avoid such offenses in service. The offenses in service are described in The Nectar of Devotion. If we simply make a show of offering services to the Deity but do not care for the seva-aparadha. certainly the Radha-Krishna Deity will not accept offerings from such non devotees. Devotees engaged in temple worship should not, therefore, manufacture their own methods, but should strictly follow the regulative principles of cleanliness, and then offerings will be accepted. – Bhagavatam 4.21.37; purport
To interpret Bhagavad-gita without any reference to the will of Krishna is the greatest offense. In order to save oneself from this offense, one has to understand the Lord as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, as He was directly understood by Arjuna, Lord Krishna' s first disciple.- Bhagavad-gita Preface
To take Srimad-Bhagavatam as a means of maintaining family expenditure is the grossest type of namaparadha offense at the feet of the Lord (sarva-subha-kriya-samyam api pramadah). – Bhagavatam 2.4.2, purport
It is a great offense, therefore, to consider Krishna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, to be an ordinary man. Those who do so are certainly deluded because they cannot understand the eternal form of Krishna, The Brhad-visnu-smrti clearly states:
yo vetti bhautikam deham
krishnasya paramatmanah
sa sarvasmad bahis-karyah
srauta-smarta-vidhanatah
mukham tasyavalokyapi
sa-celam snanam: acaret
"One who considers the body of Krishna to be material should be driven out from all rituals and activities of the stuti and the stuti. And if one by chance sees his face, one should at once take bath in the Ganges to rid himself of infection." People jeer at Krishna because they are envious of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Their destiny is certainly to take birth after birth in the species of atheistic and demoniac life. Perpetually, their real knowledge will remain under delusion, and gradually they will regress to the darkest region of creation. – Bhagavad-gita 9.12, purport
In human society, aversion to the principles of understanding the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the cause of all fall downs. That is the greatest offense of human life. – Bhagavad-gita 16.24, purport
Vaishnava Aparadha the Greatest Offense
Vaishnava-aparadha is very, very offensive. You should be very careful. Caitanya Mahaprabhu has warned vaishava-aparadha, hatimata. Vaishnava-aparadha, offense at the feet of Vaishnava, is exactly like mad elephant. If a mad elephant enters your garden, then he spoils everything. This has been given. Vaishnava-aparadha means hatimata. Mata means mad, and hati means elephant. So we should be very, very careful not to commit any offense at the feet of vaishnava. Vaishnava does not take any offense. He does not care who is offender, but Krishna takes care. Krishna will never tolerate if a person commits Vaishava-aparadha. Mind that. Just like a big man -you can offend him, he doesn't mind. But if you harm his child, he becomes very angry. – Lecture on Srimad-Bhagavatam 5.5.33, Vrindavana, November 20, 1976
An offense at the lotus feet of the Lord is sometimes excused by the merciful Lord, but an offense at the feet of a devotee is very dangerous for one who actually wants to make progress in devotional service. – Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1, Introduction
When an offense is done unto the devotee of the Lord, it is very difficult to overcome the reaction. The brahmanas, being at the head of the social orders, are meant to give protection to their subordinates and not to curse them. There are occasions when a brahmana may furiously curse a subordinate kshatriya or vaishya, etc., but in the case of Maharaja Parikshit there were no grounds, as already explained. The foolish boy had done it out of sheer vanity in being a brahmana's son, and thus he became liable to be punished by the law of God. The Lord never forgives a person who condemns His pure devotee. Therefore, by cursing a king the foolish Srngi had committed not only a sin but also the greatest offense. – Bhagavatam 1.18.47; purport
Devotee: Prabhupada Does Lord Jesus Christ appear in the spiritual sky with the body he manifested on the earth?
Prabhupada: Yes. Otherwise how there can be resurrection? Ordinary body cannot be resurrected. He appeared in his spiritual body, certainly. Jesus Christ told, if I remember, that "Lord, excuse these persons," who were crucifying him. Is it not? He knew that "These rascals, they are killing me, but… They are offending certainly. So they do not know that I cannot be killed, but they are thinking that they are killing." You see? But that was offensive, therefore he begged Lord to be excused because God cannot excuse to the offenders of the devotee. He can excuse one who is offender to God, but if somebody is offender to the devotee, God never excuses. Therefore he prayed for them. That is devotee's qualification. He prays for everyone, even of his enemy. – Lecture on Bhagavad-gita 4.1- 6, Los Angeles, January 3, 1969
Hellish Mentality
Therefore it is forbidden, arcye sila-dhlr gurusu nara-matih. If you think the Deity as sila, means stone, and gurusu nara-matih, if you think guru as ordinary human being, vaisnave jati-buddhi, and if you think a Vaishnava, "He is American Vaishnava, He is Indian Vaishnava." jati buddhi naraki – you become naraki immediately. – Lecture on Srimad-Bhagavatam 7.12.6, Bombey. April 17; 1976
The respect and recognition of Bhishmadeva are never to be imitated by artificial means, as it has become a fashion to observe the so-called jayanti ceremony for any and every common man. According to authorized shastras, such a jayanti ceremony for an ordinary man, however exalted he may be materially, is an offense to the Lord because jayanti is reserved for the day when the Lord appears on the earth. – Bhagavatam 1.9.45, purport
"If one's heart does not change, tears do not flow from his eyes, his body does not shiver, and his bodily hairs do not stand on end as he chants the Hare Krishna maha-mantra, it should be understood that his heart is as hard as iron. This is due to his offenses at the lotus feet of the Lord's holy name." – Cc. Adi, 8.25
Freedom from Offenses
The water of the Ganges sanctifies all the three worlds, including the gods and the demigods, because it emanates from the lotus feet of the Personality of Godhead Vishnu, Lord Krishna is the fountainhead of the principle of vishnu-tattva, and therefore shelter of His lotus feet can deliver one from all sins, including an offense committed by a king unto a brahmana. – Bhagavatam 1.19.7 purport
The holy saints actually have no self-interest with the householders. The only aim of such saints is to sanctify the houses of the householders, and the householders therefore should feel grateful when such saints and sages appear at their doors. A householder who dishonors such holy orders is a great offender. It is enjoined, therefore, that a householder who does not bow down before a saint at once must undergo fasting for the day in order to neutralize the great offense. – Bhagavatam 1.19.33, purport
There are ten offenses in the chanting of the Hare Krishna maha-mantra, but these are not considered in the chanting of the Pancha-tattva mantra, namely, sri krishna-caitanya prabhu-nityananda sri-advaita gadadhara srivasadi-gaura-bhakta-vrnda. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is known as maha-vadanyavatara, the most magnanimous incarnation, for He does not consider the offenses of the fallen souls. Thus to derive the full benefit of the chanting of the maha-mantra (Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare), we must first take shelter of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, learn the Pancha-tattva maha-mantra, and then chant the Hare Krishna maha-mantra. That will be very effective.- Cc. Ad! 7.4, purport
The Power of the Holy Name The powerful holy name of the Lord can certainly deliver one from sinful effects, but one who desires to utilize this transcendental potency of the holy name of the Lord in one's sinister activities is the most degraded person in the world. Such persons are never excused by the Lord or by any agent of the Lord. One should, therefore, utilize one's life in glorifying the Lord by all means, without any offense. – Bhagavatam 2.1.12, purport
Namno balad yasya hi papa-buddhih. If one thinks that "I am chanting Hare Krishna mantra, so my sinful resultant actions are now nullified. Now again let me do it. Again I shall nullify." This is greatest offense. –
Lecture on Bhagavad-gita 4.10, Bombay, March 30, 1974
Jai Radhe Abhay ji
Dandavat
Why are you waiting for those spirits to get down and then go ask for forgiveness. Just the time we realize that we have committed some offence we should beg forgiveness from them.
Hope it helps you
Your servant
Satyananda Das
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