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Spiritual Form

Hare krishna... Does the form in the spiritual world of a living entity remains fixed.. Like if someone is a grass in spiritual world,  he would eternally remain a grass and serve Krishna or can one change from grass to becoming friend or elephant or relative to serve Krishna ... It is said that variety is the mother of enjoyment... How do we understand this? 

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  • I found this link   . Sp has given proper reasons. Doesn'  seem like a divine trick

    http://www.krishna.com/where-do-fallen-souls-fall

    Where Do The Fallen Souls Fall From? | Krishna.com
    • Hare Krsna, I agree, devotees will have different realisations according to their adhikara, but that doesn't mean one is wrong and the other is right. It's been a pleasure to be discussing transcendental topics with devotees from all over the world over the net. Although I stick with the theory that jivas did not originate from the spiritual manifestation, I offer my dandavat pranam to Suhas prabhu and Kamlesh prabhu for engaging me more in studying siddhanta. All glories to our eternal spiritual master, Srila Prabhupada, by whose mercy we are getting the chance to develop Krsna Prema and enter into His divine lila.

      Ys,
      Suparno
      • That' ok my friend. This is just a discussion . We are here to help each other just like you helped me know many things.Thanks once again for that. Who fell from where and how wont have any impact on our kc. I end up saying Sp philosophy is the best ! I have no doubt on that

        • Actually, Srila Gour Govinda Swami has told many times that letters are not necessarily siddhanta. In the jiva issue, for example, certain devotees were using Srila Prabhupada's letters as evidence, and Srila Gour Govinda Swami boldly said that one cannot always quote from letters. Letters are written according to time, place and circumstance, and according to the qualification of the disciple to whom the letter was written. Gurumaharaja asked us, "Can you show me from Bhagavatam where it is stated that jivas fall down from Goloka Vrindavan? "Similarly, can you quote any siddhanta saying "don't go for Sadhu-sanga?"

          Another interesting thing about the jiva Issue: In 1995, in Sridham Mayapur, when the GBC voted on the origin of the jiva, out of a twenty-three-man committee of big leaders, 18 voted by raising their hands, that "we fall," and five voted that "we didn't fall." When my Gurumaharaj went to speak siddhanta, they told him there was no need, since they had already voted on it. After the meeting, in his room, he was very unhappy with their behavior. He told us " What is this? Now they are voting on siddhanta. They are simply husking the husk. Whereforth does jiva come? I am quoting Sri Jiva Goswami, Sri Viswanatha Chakravarty Thakura and Sri Bhaktivinoda Thakura. These are not my words. But you see the situation now.They are voting on siddhanta." Previously he had told about a dog who was walking down the street. Ten people voted that the dog was a goat. Does that mean the dog has become a goat simply because ten people have voted? Similarly, whatever we say must be confirmed by Sadhu, Guru and Sastra.

          Vaisnavas are not interested in the opinion of many conditioned souls. They are only interested in the one Absolute Truth.

    • Bhaktijana: When the souls [in Goloka] that were never conditioned at all, do they also
      have the independence?

      Prabhupada: Yes, but they have not misused. They know that, “I am meant for Krsna’s
      service”, and they are happy in Krsna's service.
      Devotee: Well, I believe you once said that once a conditioned soul becomes perfected
      and gets out of the material world and he goes to Krsna loka, there’s no possibility of
      falling back.

      Srila Prabhupada: No. There is possibility, but he does not come. Just like after putting
      your hand in the fire, you never put it again if you are really intelligent. So those who are
      going back to Godhead, they become intelligent. Why going back to Godhead? Just like we are in renounced order of life. So we have renounced our family life after thinking
      something. Now, if somebody comes, “Swamiji, you take thousand millions of dollars and marry again and become a family man,” I’ll never become, because I have got my bad
      experience. I’ll never become.
      • Sp started iskcon on orders of his guru. He didnot have any personall motive. That is why even after having heartattack twice he still continued to fulfill the desires of his guru. This i have heard from devotees. I told you sp might have got more enlightened. If sp has no right to reject then either the matter put by you is changed or the one put by me is changed. I have heard that iskcon books are also changed. In the conversation given there are two other occasions where a person loses his intelligence and touches fire. Once when he commits suicide by setting himself ablaze and second by deliberately punishing himself as we see in movies. So we surely can fall from goloka!! 

        • Hare Krishna

          Devotees will have their differences, which is due to different realizations of knowledge. So we have to agree to disagree on some points and move on.

          I want to add more reason why I believe all souls originate from spiritual manifestation and go back and forth to the material manifestation.

          In the spiritual manifestation there is no past and no future, just the present. This means that souls who have been in the material manifestation will think let me try just once to go to the material manifestation. Even though he probably has been back and forth many times already and can't remember it.

          Also due to free will, and eternal time. Souls will fall at some time, and probably many times.

          If anyone does not agree with this. This is perfectly fine. No need to disagree. We are all different with different realizations. Lord Krishna loves variety.

          • Prabhu since both of us believe in same philosophy there's no need for any debate

    • ISKCON is an institution that is established by Srila Prabhupada, that's why. There are other Gauidya institutions that don't exclusively follow Srila Prabhupada but have respect from him. Srila Prabhupada does not have the right to reject siddhanta as laid down by Srila Rupa Goswami, he's meant to represent it (which he has done with perfection). Srila Prabhupada did follow the previous acharyas. Why Srila Prabhupada chose present this insignificant bit of philosophy slightly differently? I've already stated my understanding. To be honest, Srila Prabhupada doesn't openly, in his books, propound this misconception. Rather, it was in his private letters, which are not for everyone to read. It's like taking the July 9th letter out of context and forming a totally deviant philosophy called the Ritvik.
    • I could compile a book larger than the Bhagavatam if I was to gather all the quotes and excerpts from our previous acharyas, so I'll leave it there. In my opinion, it doesn't matter what we believe. Let's just aspire to chant the holy name with purity and seek the service of Vaishnavas. Krsna will guide the way. For those who are genuinely devoted to Krsna, He will give us the knowledge, by which we can come to Him. 

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