Hare Krishna,
What is this Ritvik ideology within ISKCON? The place where I am residing has one ISKCON temple and another under Ritvik parampara? Which path is approp[riate? Please throw light on this and remove the confusion from my mind.
Thank you.
Replies
Vaishnava should not behave by saying another vaishnavas are ritviks, because its offensive.
Instead looking for mistakes, vaishnavas should try to abandon criticizing others.
Different vaishnavas has different paths, but all lead to God.
Sri Haridasa namacarya said:
"All living entities in creation are inspired by the Lord in the heart to act in different ways. People of different religions praise the Lord's holy names and qualities according to the view of their scriptures. The Supreme Lord accepts everyone's mood. If anyone shows malice towards another's religion he actually shows malice to the Lord Himself, who is worshiped by that religion. Since God is one, that person becomes envious of the same Supreme Lord that he himself is worshiping."
I happened to be severe atheist. Once I got affected by black magic. Through that time I had an indirect chance to interact with Goddess Karumari Amman and Lord Venkatesa Perumal. By their Grace I came out of Black Magic. I started pondering over what is what and started reading spiritual columns in local newspapers , internet etc . But my mind disturbed me in a variety of materialistic issues. Sitting in an empty room I inquired what is the solution to this disturbing mind and how to progress spiritually. Very soon spiritual columns started appearing stating you need a guru to control your mind. Once again I inquired who is the guru. After asking the question , within few days I came across backtohome.com in internet, some force in me forced to register which I did. Backtohome.com belongs to Sankarshan Das Adhikary a iskcon guru who happens to be a non - ritvik. He taught me everything regarding spirituality.
Who drove me towards Sankarshan Das Adhikary. As I realize nearly after a decade “ I was interested in learning and on seeing my interest the supersoul residing along with me drove me towards Sankarshan Das Adhikary - a non – ritvik”. Suppose assume that ritvik philosophy is correct then the supersoul would have made me to contact a ritvik. This is my personnel experience.
Haribol,
S.Balaji.
Hare Krishna prabhuji.
My experience was also very similar to yours. But in my case in search of Guru I first landed in rivik sites in internet and being upset by their blasphemy to almost all senior devotees at ISKCON I started to pray to Srila Prabhupada only to show me path what should I do, and he made me land up at the Lotus feet of HH Jayapataka Swami Maharaja. Not only that but after his entire in my life all my problems like revolutionary parents, no devotee association etc all started to get solved.
So if ritvik was correct, Srila Prabhupada must have answered my prayers in another way, after all I have even visited ritvik website as well
Hare Krishna !
If we can choose Prabhupada as our dikshya guru, then why can we not choose Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati as our dikshya guru? Or Why not even Gaura Kishor Das babaji or Bhakti Vinod Thakur ji, or one of Six Goswamis, or Lord Chaitanay or why not take initiation directly from Lord Krishna so that Lord Brahma is our god brother? No, that way does not work. When a disciple accepts a guru, guru also has to accept the disciple. It is a two way agreement. Suppose one accepts Srila Prabhupada as their dikshya guru, how does that person know whether Srila Prabhupad has also accepted the disciple? This is how Ritvik principle is wrong.
********** Criticism**************
If someone asks a question, giving an answer to help the person is not criticism.
********** Following heart **************
If I say, my heart says something, how do I know whether that is my concoction or misconception or not? That is why the role of dikshya guru and sikshya gurus is very important. Simply following our heart can be dangerous and what our heart says should be compliant with the guru sadhu and shastras.
YS,
Dharmabir das
(Morning Walk, Seattle, 2/10/68)
MADHUDVISA: Is there any way for a Christian to, without the help of a Spiritual Master, to reach the spiritual sky through believing in the words of Jesus Christ and trying to follow his teachings?
SRILA PRABHUPADA: I don't follow.
TAMALA KRISHNA GOSWAMI: Can a Christian in this age, without a Spiritual Master, but by reading the Bible, and following Jesus's words, reach the ...
SRILA PRABHUPADA: When you read the Bible, you follow the Spiritual Master. How can you say without. As soon as you read the Bible, that means you are following the instruction of Lord Jesus Christ. That means that you are following the Spiritual Master. So where is the opportunity of being without Spiritual Master.
MADHUDVISA: I was referring to a living Spiritual Master.
SRILA PRABHUPADA: Spiritual Master is not question of ... Spiritual Master is eternal...so your question is 'without Spiritual Master'. Without Spiritual Master you cannot be at any stage of your life. You may accept this Spiritual master or that Spiritual master. That is a different thing. But you have to accept. As you say that "by reading Bible", when you read Bible that means you are following the Spiritual Master represented by some priest or some clergyman in the line of Lord Jesus Christ.
Hare Krsna
What HG RR Mataji has said is right.
In case you have recently started practicing KC it is better to avoid the issue and focus on chanting, reading BG and serving devotees in non-ritvik temple. Once you have obtained a good understanding about the overall process of KC, philosophy, special mercy of guru etc, then things will be clear.
It is so because concept/role of guru is totally different from what non KC persons have and what the vaishnava acaryas have given us. So it becomes important to get the right understanding first and then one will be knowledgeable to understand the differences.
Hare Krsna
Dear Gopinath ji,
Not desiring to get into any conflict or philosophical analysis please try to analyze in this way as I did in my earlier days under guidance of some humble devotees.
Never ever indulge in arguments or ninda to anyone whether it is for ritwiks , non ritwiks , Iskcon , gaudiya math , other vaishnava parivaars etc . If in any place(ritwik temple, non ritwik temple) there is ninda just get out of there as it is not the quality of a vaishnava . Just think :
tåëäd api sunécena taror iva sahiñëunä
amäninä mänadena kértanéyaù sadä hariù
tåëäd - than a blade of grass; api - even; sunécena - being low; taroù - as a tree; iva - just as; sahiñëunä - being tolerant; amäninä - not being proud; mänadena - by giving honour; kértanéyaù - to be chanted; sadä - always; hariù - Hari.
The holy name of Lord Hari should always be chanted in great humility. One should think oneself to be lower than a blade of grass, one should be as tolerant as a tree, one must offer all honour to others and one should never expect any honour for oneself.
Only this path is appropriate. Regarding guru, please follow your heart as parmatma is residing there and ready to guide you to his external manifestation. You just need to ask him and not any external source and I am sure he will reveal and guide you to your guru as per your natural inclination. Please never listen to any guru ninda (whether inside or outside Iskcon, ritwik or non ritwik ) as it is not pleasing to lord at all .
Please forgive me if my reply is not pleasing to anyone.
Yes prabhu, I think your reply is not appropriate. I have merely stated what is mentioned in ISKCON Disciple Course, that too a fraction of it. My tiny brain could not recollect all the points. Just to tell you, that course is mandatory for anyone desiring initiation within ISKCON now.
Do you think ISKCON would force its disciples to indulge in ninda and still expect that they should progess spiritually?
I agree with Bharat prabhu. I answered clearly because a question was put up. I could have given a diplomatic evasive answer, but I thought if someone is asking, better to tell them what is what. Let them choose.
Haribol.
Dear Radha Rasamayi Mataji,
My reply though was after yours but I started writing the post before your post was actually posted and I happened to see your post after I posted. So my post has nothing to do with your 1st reply . I guess there is a slight misunderstanding . I have no issues with the concept of disciple course or acceptance of diksha guru in Iskcon as I am also a believer in that . I guess I am being misunderstood here. What I have presented is the attitude by which we can keep ourself away from these conflict as both the ritwiks/non ritwiks are devotees. Mahaprabhu says amanina manadena kirtaniya sada Hari. I stressed on this point.
Though my post was not aimed at you still if you are hurt I beg forgiveness from you.
Hare Krsna Mataji,
PAMHO.
Ritvik philosophy is basically that only Srila Prabhupada is the guru in ISKCON. Other gurus give initiation on behalf of Srila Prabhupada. This is not done in any of the 4 recognised sampradayas. It is assuming that there is no guru in this world after Srila Prabhupada.
If that is the case, then how come such an exalted guru could not have any disciple worth becoming a guru? Doesnt it question the efficacy of the teachings of Srila Prabhupada. There are other things also - I do not wish to get into details.
In Chennai, Ritvik temple has Ratha Yatra of Krsna Balaram, instead of Jagannath, Baldev and Subhadra. They do other things also whihc are not supported by our scriptures.
My advice would be to go to our ISKCON temple only and not to Ritvik temple. Choice is yours.
Haribol,
Your servant,
Rashmi
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