Ramanuja vaishnavism alien to Gaudiya vaishnavism

Hare Krishna!

I was reading a biographical sketch on Chaitanya Mahaprabhu on this site:-http://harekrishnacalendar.com/vaishnava-calendar/gaura-purnima-2014/

and these lines particularly struck me "At Rangaksetra He stayed for four months in the house of one Venkata Bhatta in order to spend the rainy season. There He converted the whole family of Venkata from Ramanuja Vaisnavism to Krsna-bhakti".

I had read that Ramanuja sampradaya in South is among the four recognized parampara sampradayas.....along with our Gaudiya Vaishnavism........so i was wondering why Mahaprabhu had to convert the bhatta family to krishna bhakti.......

Is Ramanuja vaishnavism not Krishna/Vishnu Bhakti?

Kindly explain in this regard.........and my apologies if i have erred in any way.

Hari bol!

Hare Krsna Prabhu,

General understanding is that all the devotees of the lord in all the 4 Sampradayas are all glorious, and their lotus feet are most worshippable by conditioned and fallen souls like me. How can I a sinful, degraded soul comment on the different moods of worship adopted by eternally liberated souls? The only people qualified to comment on these topics are our previous Gaudiya Acaryas who are liberated at all times, and are never conditioned even while performing pastimes on the earth planet. Therefore my only resort is to quote from the scriptures mercifully given to us by them.

Before I reply on this thread, I request all the Sri Vaisnavas replying on this thread to forgive me, if you find my answer offensive. My intention is not to offend you, for I know it will hamper my already weak sadhana. I am only quoting what has been written by acaryas in our line.

I am trying to present some pastimes that delineate the difference of both the sampradayas:

1) Ramanujacarya himself becomes a devotee of Gauranga Mahaprabhu as narrated in Navadvipa Dhama Mahatmya by Srila Saccidananda Bhaktivinoda Thakur. Chapter Fifteen Verses: 9-56

"There is one more confidential story. Ramanujacarya once came to Puri and pleased the Lord with many prayers. Jagannatha appeared before him and said, 'Go and see Navadvipa-dhama, for I will soon appear there in the house of Jagannatha Misra. The entire spiritual sky is situated within one corner of Navadvipa, My very dear abode. As My eternal servant and leading devotee, you should see Navadvipa. Let your students, who are absorbed in dasya-rasa, stay here while you go. Any living being who does not see Navadvipa has been born uselessly. Just one portion of Navadvipa contains Ranga-ksetra. Sri Venkata (Tirupati), and Yadava Acala. O son of Kesava go to Navadvipa and see the form of Gauranga. You have come to the earth to teach bhakti, so let your birth be successful with the mercy of Gaura. From Navadvipa, go to Kurma-sthana and join again with your disciples.'

"With folded hands, Ramanuja submitted to Jagannatha, 'In Your narration You have mentioned Gauracandra, but exactly who He is, I do not know.

"The Lord mercifully replied to Ramanuja, 'Everyone knows Krsna, the Lord of Goloka. That Krsna, whose vilasa-murti is Narayana, is the Supreme Truth, and He resides in Vrndavana. That Krsna is fully manifest in the form of Gaurahari, and that Vrndavana is fully manifest in the form of Navadvipa-dhama. I eternally reside as Lord Gauranga in Navadvipa, the topmost abode in the universe. By My mercy that dhama has come within Bhu-mandala, yet it remains without a scent of maya. This is the verdict of scripture. If you say that Navadvipa is part of the material world, then your devotion will dwindle day by day. I have placed this spiritual abode within the material world by My desire and inconceivable energy. Simply by reading scriptures one will not get the highest truth, for the highest truth surpasses all reasoning power. Only the devotees can understand by My mercy.

''Hearing this, the sober-minded Ramanuja was agitated with love for Gauranga. He said, 'Lord, Your pastimes are truly astounding. The scriptures cannot know Your opulences. Why isn't gauranga-lila clearly described in the scriptures? When I closely examine the sruti and Puranas, I find only some hint of the Gaura-tattva. After hearing your instructions, my doubts are gone and the sweet mellows of Gauranga's pastimes have arisen in my heart. If You order me, after going to Navadvipa, I will preach gaura-lila throughout the three worlds. I will give people evidence from the hidden scriptures and establish devotional service to Gauranga throughout the universe. Please instruct me.

"Seeing Ramanuja's eagerness, Jagannatha said, 'Ramanuja, do not broadcast like this. Keep the confidential pastimes of Gauranga secret. Only after Gauranga has finished His pastimes will the general public receive them. For now, preach dasya-rasa, while in your heart worship Gauranga constantly.

"Taking the Lord's advice, Ramanuja secretly cultured his attraction for Navadvipa. So that Gauranga's pastimes were not revealed prematurely, Lord Narayana then led Ramanuja here to Vaikunthapura and mercifully showed Ramanuja His transcendental form served by Sri, Bhu, anti Nila. Ramanuja considered himself fortunate to obtain darsana of his worshipable Lord, when suddenly he saw the Lord assume the enchanting form of Gaurasundara, the son of Jagannatha Misra. Ramanuja swooned at the brilliance of the form. Then Gauranga put His lotus feet on the head of Ramanuja, who was thus divinely inspired and recited prayers of praise. 'I must see Gaura's actual lila on earth. I can never leave Navadvipa!'

"Gauranga said, 'O son of Kesava, your desire will be fulfilled. When the Nadia pastimes will be revealed in the future, you will take birth here again.

"Gauranga disappeared and Ramanuja, contented, resumed his journey. After some days he arrived at Kurma-sthana and saw the place with his disciples. During his life he preached dasya-rasa throughout South India, while internally he was absorbed in gaura-lila. By Gauranga's mercy, he took birth in Navadvipa as the devotee Sri Ananta. He went to Vallabhacarya's' house and saw the marriage of Laksmipriya and Gauranga.

2) The family of Venkata Bhatta that you have mentioned were three brothers: Venkata Bhatta, Gopala Guru and Tirumala Bhatta. Gopala Guru later became Srila Prabodhananda Sarasvati, a staunch follower of Lord Shri Gauranga Mahaprabhu and is considered one of the great acharyas in the Gaudiya Vaishnava Sampradaya. Also the son of Venkata Bhatta became Srila Gopala Bhatta Gosvami, one of the six gosvamis of Vrndavan.

So Srila Prabodhananda Sarasvati composed a great scripture eloquently composed in glorification of Lord Gauranga: Sri Caitanya Candramrta, in which he comments on the relative position of Gaudiyas with respect to devotees of Sri sampradayas, as he himself was a follower of Sri Sampradaya prior to his conversion to Gaudiya Sampradaya.

Verse 12: To Lord Hari, His eyes now like millions of rainclouds shedding torrents of tears, the opulence of pure love of Krsna making Him laugh at millions of Vaikuntha worlds, His charming handsomeness like millions of nectar oceans, and His role now that of a sannyasi, I offer my respectful obeisances.

Verse 44: When they see Vakresvara Pandita and the other devotees of Lord Gaura overwhelmed by continually tasting the very wonderful and splendid nectar of pure love for Lord Krsna, the Lord's exalted associates in Vaikuntha become filled with wonder, and the hairs on their bodies stand erect. Without performing many pious deeds how can one become a devotee of Lord Gaura?

Verse 62: His complexion as fair as molten gold, and His form filled with the splendid and blissful nectar of pure transcendental love, the Supreme Personality of Godhead has mercifully appeared in the town of Navadvipa. In Navadvipa every home celebrates great festivals in honour of Bhakti-devi, the goddess of devotion. Navadvipa is sweeter than Vaikuntha. My heart finds its happiness in the transcendental abode of Navadvipa.

Verse 64: If the rare mystic perfections were to fall into my hand, if the demigods approached to become my servants, and if my form became the four-armed form of a resident of Vaikuntha, my mind would still not swerve from Lord Gauracandra for even a moment

Verse 65: Let me live in a terrible cage of fire! I shall never associate with those averse to Lord Caitanya's lotus feet! My heart has no desire to go to Vaikuntha or any other auspicious place if for a single moment I could not taste the pollen of the lotus flower of Lord Caitanya's feet

Verse 91: Liberation is not difficult to attain, and devotional service to Lord Krsna is not very difficult to attain, but even in Vaikunthaloka the mercy of Lord Gauracandra is very rare and difficult to attain

I hope this helps

HariBol!

Replies

Karthik Sambamoorthy October 12, 2014 at 12:58am

Hare Krsna Prabhu,

General understanding is that all the devotees of the lord in all the 4 Sampradayas are all glorious, and their lotus feet are most worshippable by conditioned and fallen souls like me. How can I a sinful, degraded soul comment on the different moods of worship adopted by eternally liberated souls? The only people qualified to comment on these topics are our previous Gaudiya Acaryas who are liberated at all times, and are never conditioned even while performing pastimes on the earth planet. Therefore my only resort is to quote from the scriptures mercifully given to us by them.

Before I reply on this thread, I request all the Sri Vaisnavas replying on this thread to forgive me, if you find my answer offensive. My intention is not to offend you, for I know it will hamper my already weak sadhana. I am only quoting what has been written by acaryas in our line.

I am trying to present some pastimes that delineate the difference of both the sampradayas:

1) Ramanujacarya himself becomes a devotee of Gauranga Mahaprabhu as narrated in Navadvipa Dhama Mahatmya by Srila Saccidananda Bhaktivinoda Thakur. Chapter Fifteen Verses: 9-56

"There is one more confidential story. Ramanujacarya once came to Puri and pleased the Lord with many prayers. Jagannatha appeared before him and said, 'Go and see Navadvipa-dhama, for I will soon appear there in the house of Jagannatha Misra. The entire spiritual sky is situated within one corner of Navadvipa, My very dear abode. As My eternal servant and leading devotee, you should see Navadvipa. Let your students, who are absorbed in dasya-rasa, stay here while you go. Any living being who does not see Navadvipa has been born uselessly. Just one portion of Navadvipa contains Ranga-ksetra. Sri Venkata (Tirupati), and Yadava Acala. O son of Kesava go to Navadvipa and see the form of Gauranga. You have come to the earth to teach bhakti, so let your birth be successful with the mercy of Gaura. From Navadvipa, go to Kurma-sthana and join again with your disciples.'

"With folded hands, Ramanuja submitted to Jagannatha, 'In Your narration You have mentioned Gauracandra, but exactly who He is, I do not know.

"The Lord mercifully replied to Ramanuja, 'Everyone knows Krsna, the Lord of Goloka. That Krsna, whose vilasa-murti is Narayana, is the Supreme Truth, and He resides in Vrndavana. That Krsna is fully manifest in the form of Gaurahari, and that Vrndavana is fully manifest in the form of Navadvipa-dhama. I eternally reside as Lord Gauranga in Navadvipa, the topmost abode in the universe. By My mercy that dhama has come within Bhu-mandala, yet it remains without a scent of maya. This is the verdict of scripture. If you say that Navadvipa is part of the material world, then your devotion will dwindle day by day. I have placed this spiritual abode within the material world by My desire and inconceivable energy. Simply by reading scriptures one will not get the highest truth, for the highest truth surpasses all reasoning power. Only the devotees can understand by My mercy.

''Hearing this, the sober-minded Ramanuja was agitated with love for Gauranga. He said, 'Lord, Your pastimes are truly astounding. The scriptures cannot know Your opulences. Why isn't gauranga-lila clearly described in the scriptures? When I closely examine the sruti and Puranas, I find only some hint of the Gaura-tattva. After hearing your instructions, my doubts are gone and the sweet mellows of Gauranga's pastimes have arisen in my heart. If You order me, after going to Navadvipa, I will preach gaura-lila throughout the three worlds. I will give people evidence from the hidden scriptures and establish devotional service to Gauranga throughout the universe. Please instruct me.

"Seeing Ramanuja's eagerness, Jagannatha said, 'Ramanuja, do not broadcast like this. Keep the confidential pastimes of Gauranga secret. Only after Gauranga has finished His pastimes will the general public receive them. For now, preach dasya-rasa, while in your heart worship Gauranga constantly.

"Taking the Lord's advice, Ramanuja secretly cultured his attraction for Navadvipa. So that Gauranga's pastimes were not revealed prematurely, Lord Narayana then led Ramanuja here to Vaikunthapura and mercifully showed Ramanuja His transcendental form served by Sri, Bhu, anti Nila. Ramanuja considered himself fortunate to obtain darsana of his worshipable Lord, when suddenly he saw the Lord assume the enchanting form of Gaurasundara, the son of Jagannatha Misra. Ramanuja swooned at the brilliance of the form. Then Gauranga put His lotus feet on the head of Ramanuja, who was thus divinely inspired and recited prayers of praise. 'I must see Gaura's actual lila on earth. I can never leave Navadvipa!'

"Gauranga said, 'O son of Kesava, your desire will be fulfilled. When the Nadia pastimes will be revealed in the future, you will take birth here again.

"Gauranga disappeared and Ramanuja, contented, resumed his journey. After some days he arrived at Kurma-sthana and saw the place with his disciples. During his life he preached dasya-rasa throughout South India, while internally he was absorbed in gaura-lila. By Gauranga's mercy, he took birth in Navadvipa as the devotee Sri Ananta. He went to Vallabhacarya's' house and saw the marriage of Laksmipriya and Gauranga.

2) The family of Venkata Bhatta that you have mentioned were three brothers: Venkata Bhatta, Gopala Guru and Tirumala Bhatta. Gopala Guru later became Srila Prabodhananda Sarasvati, a staunch follower of Lord Shri Gauranga Mahaprabhu and is considered one of the great acharyas in the Gaudiya Vaishnava Sampradaya. Also the son of Venkata Bhatta became Srila Gopala Bhatta Gosvami, one of the six gosvamis of Vrndavan.

So Srila Prabodhananda Sarasvati composed a great scripture eloquently composed in glorification of Lord Gauranga: Sri Caitanya Candramrta, in which he comments on the relative position of Gaudiyas with respect to devotees of Sri sampradayas, as he himself was a follower of Sri Sampradaya prior to his conversion to Gaudiya Sampradaya.

Verse 12: To Lord Hari, His eyes now like millions of rainclouds shedding torrents of tears, the opulence of pure love of Krsna making Him laugh at millions of Vaikuntha worlds, His charming handsomeness like millions of nectar oceans, and His role now that of a sannyasi, I offer my respectful obeisances.

Verse 44: When they see Vakresvara Pandita and the other devotees of Lord Gaura overwhelmed by continually tasting the very wonderful and splendid nectar of pure love for Lord Krsna, the Lord's exalted associates in Vaikuntha become filled with wonder, and the hairs on their bodies stand erect. Without performing many pious deeds how can one become a devotee of Lord Gaura?

Verse 62: His complexion as fair as molten gold, and His form filled with the splendid and blissful nectar of pure transcendental love, the Supreme Personality of Godhead has mercifully appeared in the town of Navadvipa. In Navadvipa every home celebrates great festivals in honour of Bhakti-devi, the goddess of devotion. Navadvipa is sweeter than Vaikuntha. My heart finds its happiness in the transcendental abode of Navadvipa.

Verse 64: If the rare mystic perfections were to fall into my hand, if the demigods approached to become my servants, and if my form became the four-armed form of a resident of Vaikuntha, my mind would still not swerve from Lord Gauracandra for even a moment

Verse 65: Let me live in a terrible cage of fire! I shall never associate with those averse to Lord Caitanya's lotus feet! My heart has no desire to go to Vaikuntha or any other auspicious place if for a single moment I could not taste the pollen of the lotus flower of Lord Caitanya's feet

Verse 91: Liberation is not difficult to attain, and devotional service to Lord Krsna is not very difficult to attain, but even in Vaikunthaloka the mercy of Lord Gauracandra is very rare and difficult to attain

I hope this helps

HariBol!
- Sarira Rupa > Karthik Sambamoorthy September 9, 2016 at 6:05am
  
  Is Navadvipa Dhama Mahatmya authentic, prabhuji?
Hansveer Boojhawon October 11, 2014 at 6:23pm

We srivaishnavas do not believe in different planets of spiritual world.for our sampradaya there is only one planet in which one get to associate with the form of the lord with which he is more attracted to.For sri sampradaya there is only paramapadham-spiritual abode.it is not divided as goloka n vaikuntha.For us giving layers and position to the spiritual world is an offense.Gaudiyas must STOP SAYING Goloka is a higher planet which only gaudiyas can access.Hare Krsna.
gaurav chauhan June 23, 2014 at 5:27pm

Krishna in his office is Vishnu..

If one wants to meet him in office then surely he'll get to see his official facet only.
Lord Chaitanya June 23, 2014 at 4:53pm

Dandvats,

Although no one is doing otherwise here, I still felt worth mentioning that we should be willing to give all respects to all 4 sampradayas.
- Krishna Curious > Lord Chaitanya June 23, 2014 at 6:23pm
  
  true that
E-Counselor

Radha Rasamayi DD June 23, 2014 at 10:03am

Hare KRsna Prabhuji,

PAMHO.

There are 4 recognised sampradayas. Shree sampradaya is one of them, which the Bhatt family followed before Mahaprabhu visited them. His pastimes in Rangashetra are very vividly mentioned in the Chaitanya Charitamrta. If you read the conversation where the discussion is happening about Vishnu and Krsna, you will understand what this statement means.

Shree Sampradaya believes that Vishnu is supreme and all are incarnations of Vishnu, whereas Gaudiya Vaishnavas believe that Krsna is supreme. That is the difference. I have heard that Shri sampradaya devotees can reach upto Vaikuntha planets, whereas Gaudiya Vaishnavas can reach upto Goloka Vrindavan. That is the difference.

Haribol,

Your servant,

Rashmi

This reply was deleted.