Haribol,
Dear devotees,
Recently the question came in mind of the importance of ; "I and I am".
In the Gita "I" is reffered to selfish or vals ego am I right?
But the but thing; why is I or I am so wrong? As individual jiva gradually you do not excist at all is my endconclusion. Or am I wrong?
In the end state as on Vaikuntha planets you have a eternal relation of service to Krishna. is read everywhere. But discuss with me what kind of relation it is and most important what role of fulfilliment it will be?
As false ego or say self/own interpertation /creativity or say identity is taboo. As material embodied jiva you and I excist. You do service in this way I that way. I do things slightly different than you. But at Vaikuntha the creative mind guided by the three modes of nature and all it's combinations does not excist. So are all jiva's than mindless or total like robots, all the same?
You need to learn in the material world all the principles, be aware of all the things in scriptures do's and dont's yes. So if completly acting in mind, body and hearth live by the rules 100% you could say you live like a robotic jiva no free interpretation of how do or say things. No errors of the material world.
As example; now I hear if at lexions people pronounce or do programs on many different ways. Each and every temple/houseprogram is different. Why? we all have our own way to do things.
The parampara/Prabhupada set standards yes, but even he made them, his folowwers create different excuses. Like use east, soy or canned / frozen food. Do have prasadam before kirtan and lexcions or many other things.
So core of the matter;
How does Vaikuntha mood look like? Robotic mode where every jiva act the same and according to scriptures and rules move and say the same? Individualism is than forbidden I suppose.
Please discuss and post where you found your reactions, in Gita, Bahagatam or Purana's or even other authorized scriptures. This might help not only me but millions of others!
Hare Krishna!
Replies
Hare Krsna Prabhu
Nowhere has individuality been given as much importance as in Bhagavad-gita. Radha mataji has already pointed it out.
na tve-vaham jatu nasam na tvam neme janadipah
na caiva na bhavisyaamah
sarve vayamatah param (Bg 2.12)
Translation:
Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.
Therefore everyone has an ' I '.
' I ' for the Lord means that He is the maintainer. nityo nityanaam cetanas cetananaam eko bahunaam vidhadhati kamaan. He is the chief eternal among all other eternals and the supremely conscious of all conscious beings. He has become many and is maintaining them all.
' I ' for the conditioned soul means that he is the Lord of all he can survey. This is false ego and that needs to be corrected.
' I ' for the liberated soul means that he is the servant of Krsna. This is true ego and that should be very much encouraged.
Hari Bol
Hare Krsna,
COntinued:
How does Vaikuntha mood look like? Robotic mode where every jiva act the same and according to scriptures and rules move and say the same? Individualism is than forbidden I suppose.
Dynamic to the core. Nothing robotic about Vaikuntha jivas. They live their life keeping Krsna in the centre. It is not like this material world, whihc is kuntha. Thats why there is no struggle to existance there unlike here in the material world. So they have more time to pray/ serve/ enjoy. Because Krsna is in the centre of all their activities, their enjoyment also is Krsna related only.
Please discuss and post where you found your reactions, in Gita, Bahagatam or Purana's or even other authorized scriptures. This might help not only me but millions of others!
Reference - please read Bhagavad Gita As It Is, Srimad Bhagawatam, Brhad Bhagawatamrta, Gopal Campu, All the answers are taken from these scriptures.
Haribol,
Your servant,
Radha Rasamayi DD
Hare KRsna,
Continued:
As example; now I hear if at lexions people pronounce or do programs on many different ways. Each and every temple/houseprogram is different. Why? we all have our own way to do things.
THis is the individuality I was talking about. Despite the guidelines given by Srila Prabhupada, each house program can have a different flavour and its acceptable, provided the principles are followed.
The parampara/Prabhupada set standards yes, but even he made them, his folowwers create different excuses. Like use east, soy or canned / frozen food. Do have prasadam before kirtan and lexcions or many other things.
As long as the principles are followed, one can have their dash of individuality in the programs. For example, we have to eat veg food without onion garlic. So each state has followed the principle and made their staple food confirm to the principles. So we have ekadasi noodles, cake, bake dish and what have you. Even grains prasadam, we have pizza, pasta, quinoa.. whatever anyone is used to eating in any place, the vaishnav version of it. The best part is, it sells like hot cakes in each and every eatery opened by vaishnavas.
Prabhupada gave the principles based on scriptures and earlier acharyas directions. That is why he is our founder acharya.
haribol,
Your servant,
Radha Rasamayi DD
Hare KRsna Prabhuji,
PAMHO
COntinued:
As false ego or say self/own interpertation /creativity or say identity is taboo. As material embodied jiva you and I excist. You do service in this way I that way. I do things slightly different than you. But at Vaikuntha the creative mind guided by the three modes of nature and all it's combinations does not excist. So are all jiva's than mindless or total like robots, all the same?
Again the understanding is incorrect. False ego's function is to say - I AM RIGHT, in all circumstances. I AM IMPORTANT, everyone should pander to MY needs.... - all these are the funcitons/ symptoms of false ego.
Creativity and identity are 2 different things. As already explained, lord Himself says there was never a time when we didnt exist. That means He is Himself acknowledging our identity. Then why we should feel that we have no identity in the spiritual world. He is accepting our identity and independence in the material world, then what to say of the spiritual world. We have identity. In fact, the path of spirituality is such that even we walk down the trodden path, we all have an individual relationsip with God. Each of us relate with HIm with slight nuanced differences. And HE reciprocates. Thats why He is God. He can relate with and accept each of us for what we are.
Creativity is not taboo. It is quite the reverse. We are supposed to use our brains and our creativity to serve Krsna to the best of our talents, using whatever resources we have. Isnt that creativity?
Jivas are certainly not mindless robots in the spiritual world. If that was the case, why Lord has given us limited freedom? Why He waits for us to turn to Him, then only He guides us? It is so easy to take us back as robots. Why we struggle to first idenity that we are in the wrong place, then do sadhana and purify ourselves, then only qualify to go back.
You need to learn in the material world all the principles, be aware of all the things in scriptures do's and dont's yes. So if completly acting in mind, body and hearth live by the rules 100% you could say you live like a robotic jiva no free interpretation of how do or say things. No errors of the material world.
I dont know where you have got these ideas? Knowing hte scriptures is an effort for us in the material world. In the spiritual world, it is effortless. We naturally want to know about the object of our love. We love inte lord in different rasas. And we relate to Him accordingly. So we are happy to know about Him. We are curious, never satiated to know more and more about the lord.
Free interpretation is mental speculation. Look where the free interpretation has landed you - you have been in the movement for many years, done so many services. You are so sincere, still the understanding has so much lacking. Because you didnt associate properly. I understand your circumstances didnt permit you. Please read more of our scriptures. Whatever you are reading, hear lectures by our acharyas on that topic. You will be enriched and happy. And you will be able to check whether you are understanding properly.
Haribol,
Your servant,
Radha Rasamayi DD
Haribol
after many times hearing this, it made me confioused.
https (://) soundcloud (dot com) /anantanitaidas/aindra-prabhu-last-lecture-ananta-nitai-mix?utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing
(aparently ppost a link won't work, so with out the (&) )
Qualification...
So what is he telling us??
So confiousing. As if I am not worth it, I am not qualified at all to be here or live or whatever... very depressing.
Only thing we MUST do is
Hare Krishna Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna Hare Hare, Hare Rama Hare Rama , Rama Rama Hare Hare!
This is manyly why I wrote this and got confioused.
Dear Prabhuji,
PAMHO.
Havent heard the lecture you are mentioning. Doesnt matter. Just ignore. Bhakti as a process is susukham kartum avyayam - the journey as well as the destination is supposed to be happy and blissful. Do not worry. Keep chanting and following the 4 regulative principles. Reading Srila Prabhupada books. You will keep finding answers and way forward.
Haribol,
Your servant,
Radha Rasamayi DD
Haribol,
That was Sripād Aindra Prabhu giving his last Bhagavatam-class on 15th of May 2010. last lecture.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0M56NIZhDE&feature=youtu.be
https://radhikahinduism.quora.com/They-murdered-him-and-chanted-Har...
Sorry for that. How can you never had heard his lecture? Such a dama/choas was created by this.
No wonder : They murdered him and chanted “Hare Krishna”. this title said it.
If you dare to listen to this lectue all what comes in mind is rage, anger and love to kill Aindra.
Why?
He repeaditly says; YOU AND I ARE NOT QUALIFIED!
Yes inbetween the lines there is Krishna in it, but listen plain to the shoutings, a 'pseudo'devotee will cover the ears or click away... because all a devotee doe in bhakti, japa/kirtan etc etc he kind of wiped out by say: YOU ARE NOT QUALIGIED! It took me mental disorder and rage when listen to it, but yes he died(murderd or not a judge decides or yamaraja).
By listen over and over to the lecture I discoverd Aindra Prabhu wanted to take you out of your comfort zone of be a ISKCON Hare Krisnha and thinks if you chant/bhakti all is well... Forgive me, but your repley"Doesn't matter" I feel very uncomfortable by.
What keeps me thinking about is; yes book books books... prabhupada, prabhupada, prabhupada... still I do not understand if all is so super difficult of not qualified; why boder? So devotees initation/maharaja's etc (aka higher tier Krishna persontitels) are they all NOT QUALIFIED?
Aindra Prabhu quotes Prabhupada several times, so your replay to read Prabhupada's books is okay, but same as he says, only if you only listen once; you never ever ever be qualified to anything... so depressed.
I can understand critical false ego devotees do not mind that he, Aindra Prabhu is death. Becasue the phrase; you are not qualified is hard for persons who do deitie worship, or 16 rounds 4 principles etc etc and than a weird dude says; you are not qualified! Think about this!
I am certainly not qualifed; why?
Because I listen to him(even he quote Prabhupada) and mental I fall down so so hard! Because I feel I am not qualified at all!
What he is treyning to tell is(looks like) no one on earth is qualified to do things for Krishna... even Prabhupada he quotes found it hard to find engagements for us to bring us back to Godhead.
Hare Krishna! I am not qualified....I am not worth it, I am nothing at all... sad.
Hare Krsna Prabhuji,
PAMHO.
Thank you fro motivating me to hear this lecture. No I had not heard it before. And no, I didnt find it in the least bit offensive. It is the realisation of a very realised sadhu.
For the record, I have not opened that quora link. To know about our exalted devotees, I do not refer to quora. I have faith in Srila Prabhupada and in the process. I know that if I follow the process sincerely, I will progress.
To come back to your objections, all he is trying to do is to tell us that we get diverted to other modes like deity worship or yagna in the name of devotion. While these are angas of devotion, the ultimate is chanting the holy names. In fact, Srila Prabhupada has said something similar - the entire process is to make us chant better rounds. There is no end to improvement. One can go deeper and deeper into chanting the holy names and relish newer and newer taste every single time mahamantra is touching our lips. Have you experienced it?
In the initial stages of chanting, we think we are taking the lord's names, then why we are not getting taste. When one starts to develop taste, one realises that the holy name is so merciful as to appear on our tongue and give us taste. We realise it is the same tongue with which we eat whatever we feel like, we swear or talk all kinds of things, we spit and what not. So it is not a very clean place to keep the lord, right? Same we progress and realise neither our heart is clean, we have so many desires. We also have so many emotions towards so many people, mostly negative. Then how Krsna can come in this impure heart ? How to make Krsna come into this impure heart through the impure tongue ? That is his mood, if I have understood correctly. This is a very high level of surrender and love for holy name.
Its ok if we dont understand or have not experienced it. Keep the faith that one day you will relish this lecture and maybe hear it everyday once you understand it. I do not know if there was chaos after this lecture. It could be because of some politically unpalatable statements he made in the esctacy of promoting the holy name, thats how I look at it.
Regarding reading books after books, that is the way to associate with Srila Prabhupada by vani. Thats why books are emphasised. By reading, we are more likely to know the philosophy, atleast in theory. Then when we start to realise it, it is easier to correlate and corroborate that we are on the right path.
Even when we do deity worship, after offering all the items, the pujari folds his hands and prays for acceptance of his service, that he is not qualified, that he has made many mistakes, so please accept mercifully O My Lord. Is it an offence to do this prabhu? Or are you getting offended when I am saying these things?
Why so much anger in you prabhu? I repeat - you are a very sincere devotee. This lecture is only to inspire us to chant better rounds and to prioritise chanting over other angas of bhakti. If you find it offensive, then dont listen to this one lecture. Do not follow Aindra prabhuji. There are scores of other speakers within ISKCON. YOu can hear anyone and follow on systematic basis prabhu.
I am sorry - I hope my words are making sense to you.
Haribol,
Your servant,
Radha Rasamayi DD
Hare KRsna Prabhuji,
PAMHO.
Will attempt to provide few answers:
In the Gita "I" is reffered to selfish or vals ego am I right?
No. THis understanding is not right. Krsna mentions in Gita - never was there a time when I didnt exist, or you didnt exist. I remember and you have forgotten.
This means that if individuals always exist, then how I is selfish. What is mentioned is the understanding of false ego is "I am this body", "I am the master and enjoyer of all I survey" is selfish. What is right ego I is - "I am soul, part and parcel of Krsna, an eternal servant of Krsna."
But the but thing; why is I or I am so wrong? As individual jiva gradually you do not excist at all is my endconclusion. Or am I wrong?
Answered above.
In the end state as on Vaikuntha planets you have a eternal relation of service to Krishna. is read everywhere. But discuss with me what kind of relation it is and most important what role of fulfilliment it will be?
The kind of relation is also mentioned by Srila Prabhupada in Gita. There are 5 types of primary rasas or relationship with the Supreme Lord:
Santa or neutral
Dasya or servitude
Sakhya or friendship
Vatsalya or parental
Madhurya or conjugal
One jiva can be in any of the 5 primary rasas.
Rest later.
There is some confusion in your writing and thinking. Please read BG, esp. ch. 2 about jivatma.
Ahankara is our non-eternal identity, it dissolves when the liberated jiva leaves the material world.
Life in Vaikuntha is decribed e.g. in SB 2.9, 3.15 or Brihad Bhagavatamrita. Vaikuntha rasa is dasya and seva to Sri Sri Laksmi-Narayana is definitely not mechanical.
Srila Prabhupada gave some standards, recommendations and prohibitions. Within this range there may be lower and higher sub-standards, as set by one's guru or some local authority.
Hari Hari
ys J.
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