Hare Krishna,
While studying the 3 aspects of Absolute Truth I.e. Brahman, Parmatma and Bhagvan I have one query.
If Parmatma is the aspect which is Lord within the heart of every living being, then if one living being helps another, can we say that Parmatma in 'you' helped Parmatma in 'me'. When people say that Bhagvan to kisi insaan ko zaria banate hain to help does that means the same.
Please clarify, if you have understood my query.
Hare Krishna
Puneet
Replies
Hare Krishna,
Well, The three features of God you have known are correct.
Ofcourse the Parmatma is sitting in the heart of all animate and innamiate things. I agree till here.
PARMATMA IN YOU HELPED THE PARMATMA IN ME is a wrong statement.
To start with there is only One Parmatma in all. There are not many paramatma.
Let me explain hmm..
There is one Sun isn't it? Yes
I will hold a mirror and you hold another mirror. Now the Sun's reflection is seen in your mirror and my mirror. Does it mean that there are 2 suns? NO
It is reflection of the single SUN seen in both the mirrors. So the statement that there is Parmatma in is going to help Parmatma in me is WRONG.
BHAGAWAN is the SUN here ( understand the analogy).
Secondly Paramatma doesn't need any help. So, the statement that Parmatma in you helped Parmatma in me is TOTALLY WRONG.
WHO needs help? is the question now.???? who is that who is needing the help?
WHO ARE YOU CONSIDERING AS YOU??
ARE YOU THE BODY ( which is made up of 5 elements) which appears dead when there is no life in it?
WHAT GIVES THE LIFE TO THE OTHERWISE DEAD BODY ?
WHEN WE DIE our body is lying down lifeless. What is that which makes the body to do actions? something must be there who gives life to the body?
That is Atma. without the Atma the body is dead. Atma or the soul if it leaves the body then the body is considered dead.
Now you came to know that in this body we have 2 souls in the body. Oh one is the Paramatma ( SUPERSOUL) and another is Atma ( the soul).
Soul is part and parcel of the Supersoul.
"Yet in this body there is another, a transcendental enjoyer, who is the Lord, the supreme proprietor, who exists as the overseer and permitter, and who is known as the Supersoul." Bhagavad-gita 13.23
Supersoul or Parmatma only job is to witness the activities done by the atma and awards results of the activities done. ( good karma/bad karma). BUT ATMA IS PART AND PARCEL OF PARMATMA ( THEY CANNOT EXIST SEPERATELY. THEY ARE LIKE TWO BIRDS SITTING ON THE SAME TREE. ONE IS OBSERVER AND OTHER IS DOER.
Atma on the other hand is guiding the body to do karma. Atma is enjoying the fruits of his activities done by the body.
WHEN YOU DIE THE BODY IS BURNT OR CREMATED AND ATMA is the one which is going to take a new sharira ( body).
Being a part and parcel of Supreme soul Atma is also pure and eternal but it could be tainted by the karma done ( good or bad) and it take another body to pay for bad deeds or enjoy the fruits of good karma.
Now Your analysis that Bhagwan to kisi insaan ko zaria banate hain to help - DOES SOUND POETIC AND EMOTIONALLY BEAUTIFUL.......... but as per philosophy it is Totally WRONG concept.
One real world example:-
Okay you saw an old man suffering due to thirst and your were moved with compassion to help him. SEEING THE OLD man is done by the EYES ( which are sense organs) and your emotions are coming from the heart are compassion feeling came from the ATMA. * your soul* wanted to help the old man. This told the intellect to go fetch water in a glass. This was accepted by the mind and senses and you ran to fetch water ( your karma indriyan legs and hands went to fetch water) and you serve the man with your hands ( karma indriya).
All this while.. Who is SILENTLY OBSERVING YOU ( ATMA's Activities) thru th body is PARMATMA ( SUPERSOUL) Now this Parmatma only work is to quickly note all the karma done by the Atma thru the body parts and give the atma the results of the Karma done.
I HOPE I AM MAKING SENSE???
so, Who helped the old man... a. Parmatma b. atma c. body d. None of the above e. all of them working together.
now what do you want to chose??
Hare Krishna
Hare Krishna Mata Ji.
Thanks a lot for clearing my doubt by practical examples.
I have understood but will dwell more & more deeper into it.
This doubt came out of the paradox which says that Krishna is always living in Vrindavan but yet it is all pervading and come rushing made me think that may be HE is all pervading through the Parmatma aspect. Sorry if I am asking foolish questions.
Also you again confused me with your last quiz. As I understand it is the Atma that helped the old man as Parmatma is only witness to the karmas done by Atma which uses karma indriyas to act. Correct me if I am wrong.
Hare Krishna
Hare Krsna
if one living being helps another, can we say that Parmatma in 'you' helped Parmatma in 'me'.
No.
1. Paramatma in all embodies eliving entities is one and the same
avibhaktaṁ ca bhūteṣu
vibhaktam iva ca sthitam
bhūta-bhartṛ ca taj jñeyaṁ
grasiṣṇu prabhaviṣṇu ca
Although the Supersoul appears to be divided among all beings, He is never divided. He is situated as one. Although He is the maintainer of every living entity, it is to be understood that He devours and develops all.( BG 13.17)
Paramatma in you and Paramatma in me is one and the same.
There is no question of my father helping my sister's father because he is one and the same person.
2. Paramatma is self satisfied, transcendental & not in need of anything
In this shloka Sri Krsna mentions about of Paramatma
upadraṣṭānumantā ca
bhartā bhoktā maheśvaraḥ
paramātmeti cāpy ukto
dehe ’smin puruṣaḥ paraḥ
Yet in this body there is another, a transcendental enjoyer, who is the Lord, the supreme proprietor, who exists as the overseer and permitter, and who is known as the Supersoul. ( BG 13.23)
Paramatma is supreme transcendental proprietor and enjoyer. Paramatma doesn't need to act through living entities to attain something for Himself
3. Primary objective : Paramamtma is waiting for living being to turn towards Him
samāne vṛkṣe puruṣo nimagno
’nīśayā śocati muhyamānaḥ
juṣṭaṁ yadā paśyaty anyam īśam
asya mahimānam iti vīta-śokaḥ
Although the two birds are in the same tree, the eating bird is fully engrossed with anxiety and moroseness as the enjoyer of the fruits of the tree. But if in some way or other he turns his face to his friend the Lord and knows His glories – at once the suffering bird becomes free from all anxieties. (Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad 3.1.2 and Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad 4.7)
The Vedas, like the Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad, as well as the Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad, compare the soul and the Supersoul to two friendly birds sitting on the same tree. One of the birds (the individual atomic soul) is eating the fruit of the tree, and the other bird (Kṛṣṇa) is simply watching His friend. Of these two birds – although they are the same in quality – one is captivated by the fruits of the material tree, while the other is simply witnessing the activities of His friend. Kṛṣṇa is the witnessing bird, and Arjuna is the eating bird. Although they are friends, one is still the master and the other is the servant. Forgetfulness of this relationship by the atomic soul is the cause of one’s changing his position from one tree to another, or from one body to another. The jīva soul is struggling very hard on the tree of the material body, but as soon as he agrees to accept the other bird as the supreme spiritual master – as Arjuna agreed to do by voluntary surrender unto Kṛṣṇa for instruction – the subordinate bird immediately becomes free from all lamentations. ( Purport BG 2.22)
Hare Krsna
Hare Krishna Bharat Prabhu ji.
Thanks a lot for clarifying my doubt by quoting the exact shlokas and reference.
Hare Krishna