Prabhupada - Consent to rape

There are very disturbing statements that Prabhupada made and these quite worrying especially since the whole reason for KC to exist is to create and understanding and respect to life and all living creatures including humans. I would be interested to hear what people things of these statements, these are actual words spoken by Prabhupada.

Here he's implying that's ok to rape women and ok to attack them

“In this regard, the word vikhyatam is very significant. A man is always famous for his aggression toward a beautiful woman, and such aggression is sometimes considered rape. Although rape is not legally allowed, it is a fact that a woman likes a man who is very expert at rape.”

“Generally, when a woman is attacked by a man–whether her husband or some other man–she enjoys the attack, being too lusty.”

"When a husbandless woman is attacked by an aggressive man, she takes his action to be mercy.”

"Prabhupada: “Yes, that is law always. Rape means without consent, sex. Otherwise there is no rape. There was a rape case in Calcutta, and the lawyer was very intelligent. He some way or other made the woman admit, ‘Yes, I felt happiness.’ So he was released. ‘Here is consent.’ And that’s a fact. Because after all, sex, rape or no rape, they will feel some pleasure. So the lawyer by hook and crook made the woman agree, ‘Yes, I felt some pleasure.’ ‘Now, there is consent.’ So he was released. After all, it is an itching sensation. So either by force or by willingly, if there is itching, everyone feels relieved itching it. That’s a psychology. It is not that the woman do not like rape. They like sometimes. They willingly. That is the psychology. Outwardly they show some displeasure, but inwardly they do not. This is the psychology.” (Morning Walk — May 11, 1975, Perth)

 

 

 

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  • I recently wrote an article on this particular purport on Srimad Bhagavatam, I hope it can be useful. On this second quote Prabhupada is actually making a different point.

    Why on Earth Srila Prabhupada wrote that???

    The 4th canto of Srimad Bhagavatam is especially beautiful, including passages like the allegory of King Puranjana, that really makes us rethink our priorities in life. However, the fourth canto also brings us one of the most polemical and dificult to understand statements from Srila Prabhupada:

    "In this regard, the word vikhyātam is very significant. A man is always famous for his aggression toward a beautiful woman, and such aggression is sometimes considered rape. Although rape is not legally allowed, it is a fact that a woman likes a man who is very expert at rape." (SB 4.25.41)

    Whaaat? Did I read correctly? Did Srila Prabhupada really mean that? Are we supposed to believe that every woman have a secret fantasy of being attacked by a random drunkhard on some dark alley?

    As in other passages from Srila Prabhupada, there is some deep meaning, but in this case the meaning may not be obvious.

    This purport appears in the initial scenes of the Puranjana allegory. King Puranjana, the hero, enters the city and meets the misterious young lady that was living there. The lady becomes attracted to him, and make it clear thorough a series of verses, culminating with: "O mighty-armed, who in this world will not be attracted by your arms, which are just like the bodies of serpents? Actually you relieve the distress of husbandless women like us by your attractive smile and your aggressive mercy. We think that you are traveling on the surface of the earth just to benefit us only".

    The lady became enchanted by the king and openly declared her intentions. Now she is waiting for the man to take the initiative.

    This shows a basic principle of human psicology: a single woman will look for a man and a single man will look for a woman. However, when they find a potential spouse, they act (at least traditionally) in different ways. A man will generally try to actively seduce the lady in different ways, while a woman will try to passively attract the attention of the man, and wait for him to take the initiative. When a lady desires a man, she becomes very pleased if he gives her attention and try to seduce her in a bold way. This is the basis of many books and movies. Many ladies fantasize about some handsome man trying to seduce then in different ways, specially by doing something heroic.

    If such seduction would be directed to a lady that is not interested (we can imagine the clumsy advances of indian men towards our western ladies, for example) it would be considered a form of aggression. Such advances are actually considered a crime in many countries. If the man would insist, trying to touch the lady, for example, this could be considered rape.

    We can understand that the same assertive attitude is taken in a very different way according to the disposition of the lady. The line between seduction and aggression can be tenuous. Sometimes a seductive man will be able to attract a lady that is not initially interested, or a lady may be interested but have some blocks in her mind that the man may be able to expertly overcome.

    One can get a graphic example of this in a controversial scene of the movie Baahubali: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3304h2 (warning: not for brahmacaris), a scene that was defined by a prominent Indian politician as "the longest rape scene in the history of Indian cinema". Despite being called "rape" by some, it's probable that many Indian ladies where watching the movie and desiring to be in the place of the heroine.

    Keeping this in mind, we can understand that Prabhupada was just describing this facet of human psicology in his purport, following the ideas expressed in the verses. The misterious woman is stimulating king Puranjana to show his "aggressive mercy" and Srila Prabhupada felt the need of including a short commentary on this particular point.

    Still, one could argue about the usage of the word "rape", a word that in western culture have a very clear meaning and is always used in a negative sense.

    The point is that the meaning of words change over time. Srila Prabhupada studied British English, learning from dictionaries from the 19th century. It was not uncommon even for some of his disciples to have some difficulty in understanding his English due to his particular accent and use of words.

    An old meaning of the word rape was "to seize and carry off" (in other words, to steal, or to take possession of something), and that was a meaning listed in such dictionaries. Understanding the situation (a man making advances over a willing woman, winning her heart and taking her hand) becomes clear that Prabhupada is not using the world "rape" in the modern sense, but to describe the process of assertive seduction that is the basis of the love affairs between men and women.

    When everything is understood, we can appreciate what Srila Prabhupada wrote:

    "Every husband is certainly a great hero to his wife. In other words, if a woman loves a man, that man appears very beautiful and magnanimous. Unless one becomes beautiful in the eyes of another, one cannot dedicate his whole life to another. The husband is considered very magnanimous because he gives as many children to the wife as she likes. Every woman is fond of children; therefore any husband who can please his wife by sex and give her children is considered very magnanimous. Not only does the husband become magnanimous by begetting children, but by giving his wife ornaments, nice food and dresses, he keeps her completely under submission. Such a satisfied wife will never give up the company of her husband. Manu-saṁhitā recommends that to keep a wife satisfied a husband should give her some ornaments because women are generally fond of home, ornaments, dresses, children, etc. In this way the woman is the center of all material enjoyment.
    In this regard, the word vikhyātam is very significant. A man is always famous for his aggression toward a beautiful woman, and such aggression is sometimes considered rape. Although rape is not legally allowed, it is a fact that a woman likes a man who is very expert at rape." (SB 4.25.41)
  • Sevak
    Hare Krsna

    There are very disturbing statements that Prabhupada made
    Every statement of scriptures more or less is disturbing to the conditioned living entity because the conditioned living entity wants to enjoy separate from Krsna. Every scriptural injunction restricts mindless enjoyment.

    The whole reason for KC to exist is to create and understanding and respect to life and all living creatures including humans.
    Completely incorrect ! The whole reason for Krsna consciousness movement is to make all living entities realize that we are part and parcel of Krsna and have lost our relationship with Krsna. It is to revive of relationship with Krsna by rendering service to Sri Krsna.

    What people things of these statements, these are actual words spoken by Prabhupada.
    Followers of Srila Prabhupada take these statements in a simple straight manner. Srila Prabhupada's words are very simple and clear, no ambiguity. The problem is with the complicated mind that is unwilling to accept what it doesn't like. They try to extract some other meaning out of it.

    Hare Krsna
    • Sevak
      Here he's implying that's ok to rape women and ok to attack them
      Incorrect interpretation.
  • Should not be disturbing but enlightening one, as these are the words of great soul! like you might have got disturbed in your 10th class about complex numbers a+ib, at that time you might thought as how square root of -1 exists but now you know what it means! Hope and pray for you to get vision to understand this conversation in right spirits! Hare Krishna all the best!, keep chanting and praying to Lord Krishna!
    • So what is he trying to say?
  • It is ok to have doubts but not negative attitudes, now in above case Prabhupada is revealing the deeper secrets of material existence through these statements that what is takes to become a woman or man, why don't you learn that and perfect your next life by reducing all these. If doctor tells that this is your your disease , why a patient should take it in negative way, rather he should be happy , of course doctor must give a treatment to cure the disease also, so Prabhupada not only revealed the reality but also created the process and society where everyone man or woman or animals or black slaves can become reformed, even Lord Krishna points out Woman as papa yoni or say sinful birth, but Lord Krishna didn't stop there , He adds that even if these sinful people take shelter of Him then they will become perfect and Go back to Godhead. SO accept the total context, and see already Prabhupada have saved how many man and woman from all such nonsense and His society and followers will continue to do so forever. Hari Bol I hope this somewhat relieves you from your doubts and disturbances over above tape! All the best!
    • I don't understand your answer, what has that got to do with being ok with rape? he says very clearly "it is a fact that a woman likes a man who is very expert at rape", so what is he trying to say here? what is the context?

      Also regarding the black americans, he is saying they should be slaves, I don't understand why he would say that ("That is best, to keep them under control as slaves"), so what is your understanding of that statement?
  • He already condemned all such nonsense by creating ISKCON Society and giving culture of following Four regulative principles which include no illicit sex. So why not join the society and feel relieved from all such trouble, why do you become over worried about others. He might have said in some context to someone that is not to be taken negatively. And above all you can't understand a pure devotee's words, actions, etc by your ordinary tiny brain! So better don't comment rather take a positive side, It was said that Even Jesus ate meat, and Lord shiva drank poison , Lord Krishna forcefully married many women, but what is background and their heart behind doing all these must be carefully understood, and if at all you have more doubt then ask in humble way not in challenging or negative way! That will not solve the issue nor it will down Prabhupada!
  • Prabhupada said this also, effectively stating that women should be kept as slaves, why??

    “Sudra is to be controlled only. They are never given to be freedom. Just like in America. The blacks were slaves. They were under control. And since you have given them equal rights they are disturbing, most disturbing, always creating a fearful situation, uncultured and drunkards. What training they have got? They have got equal right? That is best, to keep them under control as slaves but give them sufficient food, sufficient cloth, not more than that. Then they will be satisfied.” – Room conversation, 14 February 1977, Mayapur
  • Prabhupada doesn't mince his words. Like a journalism. Prabhupada was an individual he doesnt need to speak whatever for people. He choose to speak harshly or kindly. I mean we can say why did Krishna allow so many to be killed at kurukshetra? BTW I get what Srila Prabhupada is saying. Basically in 20th century or 21st I can never remember!, some girls like 'bad boys', this is what Prabhupada is referring to. So there you are. Case closed. Hare Krishna!
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