hare Krishna
I am chanting from 3 years.
I want to become devotee of Krishna but don't want to do it by just assuming stuff and go ahead with that. Devotion is something that can never be faked and i don't know i should go ahead or not.
For some time we can assume but not always.
1. Doubt regarding God's system :
I, really, feel that life is highly unfair (because of unfair systems of god)
Law of Karma is in one sense highly unfair. Yes, it punishes criminal; but when? when he has lost his memory and when he does not have tendency to commit crime!!!
I always had this feeling in some corner of my heart but i used to push it inside giving reason that if it is created by Krishna, it has to be perfect.
I am not saying criminal should not be punished. But it could have been done in a fair way. After dying before jiva goes to next life he should be given punishment in hell. And next life should start plain and fair..... without prejudices.
It is said that god wants to give freedom to living entity, so he allows him to do what he wants to do and in next life jiva has to take reactions. But when he goes to next life he does not remember anything but he has to undergo suffering which itself is very big trauma.
eg : In mahabharata, kauravas did bad and they got bad in same life. - Fair!!
But, in real life we face so many things for which we have done nothing in this life. - Frustrating!!!!
2. Doubt regarding God's way of giving freedom:
I feel god hardly gives us what we want in life.
Then we are asked to assume that it is because we don't deserve it (bcoz of our own karma) or it is not good for us or this is not right time.
Due to fact of not having what is wanted, person is bound to feel pain and then we have to assume that we are not happy because we are not god conscious. (But actual reason is unfulfilled desire)
If Krishna wants soul to understand that soul cant be happy without him, Krishna should
give fair chance to that soul where he can actually have what he wants and then decide if is happy or not. And Jiva cant desire more than what Krishna can give. It is always said that our desires are endless but simple simple desires remain desires only. I have personally experienced it. Now saying that god will surely fulfill them in next life is like saying i ll surely study tomorrow.
I have seen people (materially prosperous, wealthy and those who have good family life n all) living happily even if they are atheistic. So, it makes me doubt if we can really not be happy without god or we never got chance to live life of our choice.
Now q comes why should god fulfill our desires. I feel because of 2 reasons:
1. Because krishna has created us jivas.
2. And we are given no power to fulfill our own desires. We are created in a way that we can only desire but have to depend on krishna for desires to get fulfilled.
Because of all these reasons i feel we are never given a fair chance to live life.
please help.
Replies
Hare Krsna Ashay Prabhu,
PAMHO.
You have asked the same question over and over again, in the past few months, in more or less the same language. HG Jagatatma prabhu is guiding you very well and answering your questions.
Still I get the feeling the doubts in your mind are continuing. Maybe you need to be more specific with your problem. You can write personally to any of us, with whom you are comfortable and get some personalised guidance. (Incidentally, the meaning of the word guidance is God U and I DANCE together).
It does not matter whether we are chanting for 3 years or for 30 years, what matters is how much the hard knot in the heart has melted due to the chanting. Like Kabir das says - mala pherat jug beeta, phira na man ka pher. kar ka manka daar de, man ka manka pher.....(its been a lifetime turning beads when chanting, but the mind/ heart has not yet turned. Better to stop turning the beads in the hands and start turning the beads of the mind).
Pls dont take offence, I am trying to arrive at the root of the problem.
Haribol,
Your servant,
Rashmi
Hare Krishna,
1. Because krishna has created us jivas...- No He didn't .We existed as long as He, We are individuals,and different from Him.(as sparks of a fire aren't seen in the fire, but some do manage to come out and are mistakingly understood as 'manufactured' but they existed perpetually)
2.And we are given no power to fulfill our own desires. We are created in a way that we can only desire but have to depend on krishna for desires to get fulfilled.-
Completely correct (as a child remains a child even when enacting a play)-Just like when a child is playing, and sometimes he becomes a father, doctor, mother, but he will still depend on his father to provide him with the plastic syringes and plates to enact the small imitation. As you would think such a use of time to be wastage, "why not just help mom in real cooking, why waste time in playing a mimicary," is a similar situation in the material world.
We have mistakingly thought ourselves as the mother, father,etc. of other 'children' and are wasting our time with plastic cups and pans(material nature) provided to us by Krsna (Krsna is not a miser who won't give his children some toy if he asks for it) - to enact a mimicary of the real home (the spriritual world)-which will get destroyed in a short time and so is temporary. Why not just serve mommy (devotees) who will in turn make supper for papa(Krsna) to provide food( sad-cit-ananda) to also brother and sister (other living entities) and thus remain happy in your constitutional position rather than jump to what mommy does and simply waste our time eating plastic plates (illusory food)?
Prachupada also says that whatever is present, is enough and in abundance- http://vedabase.com/en/tqk/23 (link credits -chirag prabhu)
hare Krishna,
aspiring service,
All glories to the Deites, all glories to all vaishnavas
My dear friend I will be streight honest with you. This really comes down to if either you believe on God, Krishna, or you dont. You should accept God and all his infinite qualities: beuty, fame, welth, renunciation, wisdom, potency. Infinite goodness and mercy are also his qualities. You could say that Krishna is not fair becouse he doesnt give the jivas the chance to understand that they have sin in other lives, well how did we knew about it then? The Lord has indeed reavealed himself and with him all the truth of life through the Vedas wich are non different from Him Himself. We should have to suffer 1000 times more for our sins. Illution, maya, keeps us from the Lord creating doubt and misleading us, that is his purpose: to keep dishonest people away from Him. Practicing bhakti yoga you can get rid of all illution. You are not your body,, you dont need to pay attentio to illution. You are a spirit soul, this you have to know.
Hare bol
Source: sannyasi yogi (SP among others)
The law of karma is very strict and has no mercy at all and that is the law in the material world.
Atheists and demons are life after life getting karma here under the direction of Yamaraja.
Such demons think themselves happy in this world and work hard in fruitive activities to improve their level of sense gratification by education, economic developmen, religiosity and other material pursuits.
Because they feel themselves powerful, independent and the controller they can do anything for sense gratification.
They are blind to self realisation considering material happiness everything.
Thy feel themselves very happy ie. ignorance is bliss.
The liberated souls who are free of the illusions of this world are also happy.
They are always engaged in pure spiritual activities free of all karma and never come under the control of Yamaraja.
Such liberated soul can live either here or in the spiritual world of Vaikuntha as they are free from birth and death.
Both these 2 types types of beings are happy in the material world but there is a third type who is not happy.
This third type is not a materialist nor a liberated soul.
He is struggling very hard with the senses and the mind and his knowledge about self realisation and the truth is incomplete.
Therefore he is not happy and has many doubts but he cannot go back.
Ignorance is no longer bliss.
He now has to come to full knowledge of his spiritual identity and what is this maya and it's controller , God.
Only then will you know if it is a fair system or not.
For this advancement in spiritual realisation you will need help and that help will come from God who hears your prayer.
Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Hama Rama Rama Hare Hare.
Krishna teaches in the Gita that only by Bhakti can He be known in truth.
So go on chanting more and more.
Regularly hear the teachings of Krishna from the lips of His devotees and very soon all those doubts will be cut to pieces,
There will be no more karma.
No more birth and death.
Hare Krishna Jagadatma das ji,
The answer is so beautiful and simple... "help will come from God who hears your prayer" - the simple truth .
I am experiencing the same - I had many questions - many - I am trying to focus on Krishna ji face and keep calling him, my questions are dissappearing.
Somehow I have realised that Krishna consciousness is the solution to all the problems that the current world is engulfed in.
Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare
Hare Krishna Prabhuji,
Dandavat pranam.
Thank you so much for your answer. This answer is really very helpful.
But did god have no any other way rather little less painful way to make us realize our spiritual identity. Why roads to beautiful destination (if it is so) has to be bad? god could have made it the way he wants. Why did he choose harsher way?
Thanks,
yas ashay
Mother will slap you if you are going to be so stubborn.
The child may complain why I have to go to school and do so many things.
That child does not understand how he is leaning to be responsible.
When he is grown up he will be given so much money and other assets of his father and he has to know how to use these things responsibly.
Therefore training is required and mother gives this training and corrects us by discipline.
Mother has two sides, one is so loving and kind but if you don't behave and show disrespect then you will see her other side.
So our Devine mother is so powerful and all knowing.
She knows how to train you quickly and place you in your eternal service.
You should also understand how valuable is this eternal loving service to Krishna.
It is not such a cheap thing.
If something is gotten with ease and no difficulty it is not considered so valuable.
But something which is very rare, attained after great struggle and sacrifice for a very long time is of great value.
From the very beggining of true surrender to Krishna our mother know your sincerely.
From within our heart she nourishes us with Devine ecstasy so that all the troubles of this world become insignificant.
And our love for Her grows more and more.
Hare Krishna!
Hare Krsna
Dandavat pranams. Thank You for this nice discussion. I would like to add..
when we say why God choose harsher way, we are considering that actually we know a way better than God. Fact is we are in conditioned state of life with inbuilt tendency for sense gratification (almost unknowingly), even in spiritual pursuits our minds tendency is to extract whatever subtle sense gratification possible. There is a saying..I have been down so long, down looks up to me! So in such a state of mind we cannot really decide what is good.
In BG Krsna declares this world to be dukhalayam ashashvatam..meaning it is eternally a miserable place. So at the start by using our free will (not forced by God) we have selected to come to this miserable place which is painful. God is rather trying to make the situation less painful by giving a process to come out of it. Road to beautiful destination (spiritual world) is also beautiful, we perceive it bad due to our conditioned state (just as a criminal finds government laws bad, but a citizen by enacting those laws is happier). God could have made the way he wants, but there is a problem He cannot force His will over us as we have our free will. So His energy Maya devi frustrates us (aspiring devotees) in all our material pursuits so that we donot have any other alternative but to fully surrender to Krsna by our free will. Ofcourse there is a shortcut if we can immediately fully surrender, but that is only possible for pure devotees. So first we have to purify ourself..and process of purification is austere (in your words harsh)! :)