Hare Krishna to all,I have a doubt. It is a general opinion as well as in authenticated vaishnav sampradayas (Sri and rudra) that Original supreme personality of Godhead is Lord Vishnu and Lord Krishna is His Avtara (incarnation). But in brahm samparadaya it is opposite wherein Lord Vishnu is the expansion of Lord Krishna. Although I myself, understand both are same person, yet I am confused that who among them is Original (means first) because many times in ISKCON, I found that Lord Krishna superior to Lord Vishnu. I have discussed a lot on this topic with some devotees but could not satisfy myself because I don't found any answers that proves Lord Vishnu is not the Original supreme personality of Godhead. Some of the answers I was given are:1. Sri Suta Muni has said in Srimad-Bhâgavatam –‘ete châmsha kalâh pumsah krishnastu bhagavân swayam.”But it simply means that Krishna is the bhagvan Himself and here bhagvan can be bhagvan vishnu."They (whom I mentioned so far) are parts or parts of the parts, but Sri Krishna is Swayam Bhagavân (Vishnu)". It does not says Krishna is the primeval God.2. In brahm sanhita - "govindam aadi purusham" OR "Ishvarah paramah Krishna" Or "sarv karan karanam "Now these are simply the specifications of Lord (bhagvan). Is Lord Vishnu being the supreme personality of Godhead, not "aadi purush (first of all)" or "param ishvarah (supreme controller)" or "sarv karan karnam (cause of all causes)".3. They say, Lord Krishna exhibit 4 more specifications (lila-madhuri, prema-madhuri, venu-madhuri and rupa-madhuri) but these are not exhibited by Lord Vishnu. Because Lord is not exhibiting His some features in His original form(Vishnu) does not mean that He does not have it. Because God is All-powerful and source of everything. He can exhibit Himself in anyway. For example, Lord Ram lived like an ordinary human being, does not mean that he does not have the qualities of supreme personality of Godhead or can not exhibit Himself like God. Every incarnation of Lord Vishnu is special, It is not that Lord will show all features of His incarnations in His Original Form to prove that He has all those specifications. For example, should Lord Vishnu exhibit His most dangerous Narsingh form in vaikunth so that we believe that He can also look like that or He also has this feature.4.They say, Lord Krishna is more beautiful (or more attractive) than Lord Vishnu and example is given that Cowherd Girls (Gopis) do not found Lord Vishnu's Form more attractive than that of krishna's. But for Hanumaan ji, who was more attractive Lord Ram or Lord Krishna. Why did he said to Lord Krishna to show His Lord Ram form. Therefore, Attraction depends on the bhaava of a devotee and which form of God he is more attracted to.5. Srimad Bhagavatam, when lord Krishna and Arjuna visit Vaikuntha to find the children of brahmin, It is written that Lord Mahavishnu said you both are my incarnations (nara-narayana). And when Lord Mahavishnu is saying this, I think there is no need of another evidence.6. In Mahabharat , Vishnupurana Krishna is described as the incarnations of Vishnu (Narayan Himself).Please do not say both are same person. I understand this but in ISKCON Lord Krishna is Original as well as superior why? where in scriptures?
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जिनके स्मरण मात्र से यह संसार गोपद के समान अवस्था को प्राप्त हो जाता है, उसी को नित्य किशोर रहने वाली भक्ति कहा गया है जो भगवान श्री रामचंद्र के चरणों में आश्रय प्रदान करें।
Vishnu can not be without Shesha, the snake whom Vishnu finds rest. He is the incarnation of Baladeva/Balarama, the Adi Guru, the Original Spiritual Master. Baladeva/Balarama is the direct expansion of Krishna who is Vishnu, the Adi Purusa, the 1st Person. In other words, if we want to worship Vishnu, we should likewise worship Shesha. If we want to worship Krishna, we should also worship Baladeva/Balarama. This is why when we chant the Hare Krishna maha mantra. Not only we concentrate on Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Hare Hare but we also focus our minds on Hare Rama Hare Rama Hare Hare. When somebody says, " There is only one God. " It`s wrong. The truth is we have two Gods, the Two Boys of Vrndavan, Krishna and Baladeva/Balarama. One can not worship Krishna alone while leaving Baladeva/Balarama behind.
If you already understand that they are the same person, then whats is this topic about.
-Muslims devotees believe that Allah is the only Supreme God.
-Devotees of Lord Ramacandra beleive Lord Rama is original Supreme Lord.
-Devotees of Lord Narayana beleive He is first original Supreme God.
-Devotees of Lord Shiva believe He is the Supreme Lord.
-Deveotees of Sri Krishna believe He is the original Supreme God.
Sri Haridasa namacarya said:
"All living entities in creation are inspired by the Lord in the heart to act in different ways. People of different religions praise the Lord's holy names and qualities according to the view of their scriptures. The Supreme Lord accepts everyone's mood. If anyone shows malice towards another's religion he actually shows malice to the Lord Himself, who is worshiped by that religion. Since God is one, that person becomes envious of the same Supreme Lord that he himself is worshiping."
“God is one. The same God is present in every religion; He is the non-dual absolute truth. In the different religions, it is simply the name that differs, but on the absolute plane, there is no distinction to be made. The same God sits in the heart of every single living being and he engages each one of them in His service in different ways. One worships in the way one is made to worship by Him ".
ye ’py anya-devatā-bhaktā yajante śraddhayānvitāḥ te ’pi mām eva kaunteya yajanty avidhi-pūrvakam
"Those who are devotees of other gods and who worship them with faith actually worship only Me, O son of Kuntī, but they do so in a wrong way."
Everyone says, "God is One" here God means 'The Supreme God' and that one Supreme God is Bhagavan Shree Krishna.
3ruf705dlznca > Satyaashrai IyangarMay 12, 2016 at 12:38am
I agree Sri Krishna is Supreme Lord.
.
SB 10.3.41 — Since I found no one else as highly elevated as you in simplicity and other qualities of good character, I appeared in this world as Pṛśnigarbha, or one who is celebrated as having taken birth from Pṛśni.
SB 10.3.42 — In the next millennium, I again appeared from the two of you, who appeared as My mother, Aditi, and My father, Kaśyapa. I was known as Upendra, and because of being a dwarf, I was also known as Vāmana.
SB 10.3.43 — O supremely chaste mother, I, the same personality, have now appeared of you both as your son for the third time. Take My words as the truth.
SB 10.3.44 — I have shown you this form of Viṣṇu just to remind you of My previous births. Otherwise, if I appeared like an ordinary human child, you would not believe that the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Viṣṇu, has indeed appeared.
SB 10.69.16 — After fully worshiping the great sage of the demigods according to Vedic injunctions, Lord Kṛṣṇa, who is Himself the original sage — Nārāyaṇa, the friend of Nara — conversed with Nārada, and the Lord’s measured speech was as sweet as nectar. Finally the Lord asked Nārada, “What may We do for you, Our lord and master?”
SB 11.30.26 — Lord Balarāma then sat down on the shore of the ocean and fixed Himself in meditation upon the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Merging Himself within Himself, He gave up this mortal world.
SB 11.30.27 — Lord Kṛṣṇa, the son of Devakī, having seen the departure of Lord Rāma, sat down silently on the ground under a nearby pippala tree.
SB 11.30.28-32 — The Lord was exhibiting His brilliantly effulgent four-armed form, the radiance of which, just like a smokeless fire, dissipated the darkness in all directions. His complexion was the color of a dark blue cloud and His effulgence the color of molten gold, and His all-auspicious form bore the mark of Śrīvatsa. A beautiful smile graced His lotus face, locks of dark blue hair adorned His head, His lotus eyes were very attractive, and His shark-shaped earrings glittered. He wore a pair of silken garments, an ornamental belt, the sacred thread, bracelets and arm ornaments, along with a helmet, the Kaustubha jewel, necklaces, anklets and other royal emblems. Encircling His body were flower garlands and His personal weapons in their embodied forms. As He sat He held His left foot, with its lotus-red sole, upon His right thigh.
SB 11.30.33 — Just then a hunter named Jarā, who had approached the place, mistook the Lord’s foot for a deer’s face. Thinking he had found his prey, Jarā pierced the foot with his arrow, which he had fashioned from the remaining iron fragment of Sāmba’s club.
SB 11.30.34 — Then, seeing that four-armed personality, the hunter became terrified of the offense he had committed, and he fell down, placing his head upon the feet of the enemy of the demons.
There is a clear verse in Brahma Samhita that says Krsna is original Supreme personality of Godhead. Krsna is the source of Vishnu.
dipaarcir eva hi dashaantaram abhyupetya dipaayate vivrta-hetu-samaana-dharmaa yas taadrg eva hi ca vishnutayaa vibhaati govindam aadi-purusham tam aham bhajaami When the flame of one candle is expanded to another candle and placed in a different position, it burns separately, and its illumination is as powerful as the original candle’s. Similarly, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Govinda, expands Himself in different forms as Vishnu, who is equally luminous, powerful and opulent. Let me worship that Supreme Personality of Godhead, Govinda.’. Brahma Samhita 5.46
This explains the original nature of Krsna. Just as if one candle lights up another identical candle, the two candles will have equal luminosity and are identical. But still there is a difference - second candle was lit up but the first, so the first is still special. Lord Brahma says Govinda or Krsna is the original candle or the source of Vishnu forms.
जिनके स्मरण मात्र से यह संसार गोपद के समान अवस्था को प्राप्त हो जाता है, उसी को नित्य किशोर रहने वाली भक्ति कहा गया है जो भगवान श्री रामचंद्र के चरणों में आश्रय प्रदान करें।
Replies
(कलिसंतरण उपनिषद)
यद्दिव्यनाम स्मरतां संसारो गोष्पदायते ।
सा नव्यभक्तिर्भवति तद्रामपदमाश्रये ।।
जिनके स्मरण मात्र से यह संसार गोपद के समान अवस्था को प्राप्त हो जाता है, उसी को नित्य किशोर रहने वाली भक्ति कहा गया है जो भगवान श्री रामचंद्र के चरणों में आश्रय प्रदान करें।
Hare Krishna,
Vishnu can not be without Shesha, the snake whom Vishnu finds rest. He is the incarnation of Baladeva/Balarama, the Adi Guru, the Original Spiritual Master. Baladeva/Balarama is the direct expansion of Krishna who is Vishnu, the Adi Purusa, the 1st Person. In other words, if we want to worship Vishnu, we should likewise worship Shesha. If we want to worship Krishna, we should also worship Baladeva/Balarama. This is why when we chant the Hare Krishna maha mantra. Not only we concentrate on Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Hare Hare but we also focus our minds on Hare Rama Hare Rama Hare Hare. When somebody says, " There is only one God. " It`s wrong. The truth is we have two Gods, the Two Boys of Vrndavan, Krishna and Baladeva/Balarama. One can not worship Krishna alone while leaving Baladeva/Balarama behind.
All glories to Krishna and Balarama!
krsnaraja melvin
Thanks to all of you...
If you already understand that they are the same person, then whats is this topic about.
-Muslims devotees believe that Allah is the only Supreme God.
-Devotees of Lord Ramacandra beleive Lord Rama is original Supreme Lord.
-Devotees of Lord Narayana beleive He is first original Supreme God.
-Devotees of Lord Shiva believe He is the Supreme Lord.
-Deveotees of Sri Krishna believe He is the original Supreme God.
Sri Haridasa namacarya said:
"All living entities in creation are inspired by the Lord in the heart to act in different ways. People of different religions praise the Lord's holy names and qualities according to the view of their scriptures. The Supreme Lord accepts everyone's mood. If anyone shows malice towards another's religion he actually shows malice to the Lord Himself, who is worshiped by that religion. Since God is one, that person becomes envious of the same Supreme Lord that he himself is worshiping."
“God is one. The same God is present in every religion; He is the non-dual absolute truth. In the different religions, it is simply the name that differs, but on the absolute plane, there is no distinction to be made. The same God sits in the heart of every single living being and he engages each one of them in His service in different ways. One worships in the way one is made to worship by Him ".
Hare Krishna,
Krishna says in Bhagavad Gita:
ye ’py anya-devatā-bhaktā
yajante śraddhayānvitāḥ
te ’pi mām eva kaunteya
yajanty avidhi-pūrvakam
"Those who are devotees of other gods and who worship them with faith actually worship only Me, O son of Kuntī, but they do so in a wrong way."
Everyone says, "God is One" here God means 'The Supreme God' and that one Supreme God is Bhagavan Shree Krishna.
I agree Sri Krishna is Supreme Lord.
.
This question can be summarized into just one question sentence. Which came 1st, the chicken or egg?
Om namo bhagavate vasudevaya
krsnaraja melvin
Hare Krsna
There is a clear verse in Brahma Samhita that says Krsna is original Supreme personality of Godhead. Krsna is the source of Vishnu.
dipaarcir eva hi dashaantaram abhyupetya
dipaayate vivrta-hetu-samaana-dharmaa
yas taadrg eva hi ca vishnutayaa vibhaati
govindam aadi-purusham tam aham bhajaami
When the flame of one candle is expanded to another candle and placed in a different position, it burns separately, and its illumination is as powerful as the original candle’s. Similarly, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Govinda, expands Himself in different forms as Vishnu, who is equally luminous, powerful and opulent. Let me worship that Supreme Personality of Godhead, Govinda.’. Brahma Samhita 5.46
This explains the original nature of Krsna. Just as if one candle lights up another identical candle, the two candles will have equal luminosity and are identical. But still there is a difference - second candle was lit up but the first, so the first is still special. Lord Brahma says Govinda or Krsna is the original candle or the source of Vishnu forms.
Hare Krsna
(कलिसंतरण उपनिषद)
यद्दिव्यनाम स्मरतां संसारो गोष्पदायते ।
सा नव्यभक्तिर्भवति तद्रामपदमाश्रये ।।
जिनके स्मरण मात्र से यह संसार गोपद के समान अवस्था को प्राप्त हो जाता है, उसी को नित्य किशोर रहने वाली भक्ति कहा गया है जो भगवान श्री रामचंद्र के चरणों में आश्रय प्रदान करें।