Hare Krsna!
PAMHO
All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
I am an aspiring devotee. Recently I met a person with whom I fell into a discussion. We started to discuss different philosophies. Through the course of our discussion, he said:
- Everything is Krsna!
- Even the words that come out of our mouth.
- Everything in Goloka is Krsna!
- We are a part of Krsna himself, but not him. But when we leave our bodies and reach Golok, we become one with Krsna. We become Krsna. As in, we cannot call a glass of ocean water ocean though it is a part of the ocean. But, if pour back the glass of water of the ocean, it becomes the ocean.
- Param Atma appears in front of you in the form you want.
He said this to a third person, ' Read Bhagwat Gita As It Is if you want to understand it in the Vaishnavite way. Vaishnavas are like Christians, they tell Krsna is the only God.'
According to the little knowledge I have learned over 5 years, his statements are inclined towards Advaita philosophy.
Can you please give me answers to all the statements given by him.
Hare Krsna,
A devotee
Replies
Hare Krsna
His statements are inclined towards Advaita philosophy
Yes you are right. In fact calling it inclined would be an understatement. Your friend has very clearly understood the mayavada philosophy but is not fortunate to understand that mayavada is bogus/false.
Vaishnavas are like Christians, they tell Krsna is the only God.
This mayavadi does not know what is christianity or vaishnavism.
In order to clearly understand why mayavada is wrong and it can never be correct one needs ot understand the philosophy of Achintya-bheda-abheda tattva which was described by Lord Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu who is Lord Sri Krsna Himself. As per this Lord Sri Krsna is simultaneously one and different from His energies in an inconceivable manner. Essentially there are two entities - Supreme personality of Godhead - Krsna and His energies. Krsna's energies can be categorised - Spiritual, material and marginal. Spiritual energy acts to give pleasure to Krsna. Material energy acts on conditioned souls. Marginal energy are jiva or soul.
Now as per Achintya-bheda-abheda Krsna is simultaneously one and different from each of His own energies. Based on this the following statements can be understood.
Everything is Krsna - This is true in the sense that everything has its origin and its annihilation in Krsna. But this does not mean anyone can worship anything as Krsna. It takes a very great soul like Prahlad Maharaj to see Krsna in everything. Ignorant people foolishly use this statement to comment that everyone is god or say deity worship is not bonafide etc.
The application of this statement is mostly done wrongly.
But when we leave our bodies and reach Golok, we become one with Krsna. We become Krsna. As in, we cannot call a glass of ocean water ocean though it is a part of the ocean. But, if pour back the glass of water of the ocean, it becomes the ocean.
This is classic bogus mayavada philosophy. This is poison. Sripada Madhwacarya annihilated this poison. Sri Krsna and jiva are always eternally different. When the jiva attains Goloka, then the jiva unite with Krsna in order to serve Krsna eternally. The water mixing example is complete wrong. When Jiva attains Goloka JIva meet Krsna just as we may meet another friend at their house.
The union of jiva and Krsna is in the intention and action of service and reciprocation and not in the sense of merging and annihilation. Sri Krsna says in BG 2nd chapter that jiva is eternal and cannot be annihilated. The bogus mayavadis cannot even understand the first lesson that Sri Krsna gives and pretend to know all.
Param Atma appears in front of you in the form you want.
The correct statement is - Paramatama can appear in the form devotee wants.
The mayavadis foolishly say that the form of the lord is cause by the desire of the devotee. For example if Lord has appeared as fish, then the fish form is temporary and due to desire of some devotee who wanted Krsna to worship as fish. So fish form is illusion. They extrapolate this to say all forms of lord are illusion and untlimately God id formless nirakaar etc.
The correct understanding is that Sri Krsna is bhakta vatsala. If a devotee wants the lord to manifest in a particular form, the lord out of His own love for devotee appears in that form and performs pastimes/ interacts with the devotee. For exmaple Murari Gupta was an associate of Lord Chaitanya, he wanted to see Lord Chaitanya as Lord Sri Rama. So Lord Chaitanya manifested as Sri Rama.
To say that the form of lord is caused by devotee is wrong. All the forms of the lord are eternally existent and transcendental. They are not caused by anyone or anything. Form if the lord is the lord Himself.
Hare Krsna
Hare Krishna Prabhu ji,
We are all tiny sparks emanating from the marginal potency of Krishna. The mariginal potency ( Brahman) is illuminted field the shiny rays coming out of the Opulent body of Sri Krishna. Souls are emerging from Brahman. Sri Krishna has 3 potencies., Internal, external and marginal.
One should know, therefore, that the Lord is never on the level of the living beings, who are but expansions of His marginal potency, and one should never equalize the potent and the potency, although there is very little difference of quality between the potent and the potency ( SB 1.11.31 purport).
The spiritual world is the manifestation of His internal potency, and the material world is the manifestation of His external potency. The living entities are also His marginal potency, and by their own choice they can live in either the transcendental or material worlds. The material world is not a fit place for living entities because they are spiritually one with the Lord and in the material world the living entities become conditioned by the laws of the material world. The Lord wants all living entities, who are His parts and parcels, to live with Him in the transcendental world, and for enlightening conditioned souls in the material world, all the Vedas and the revealed scriptures are there—expressly to recall the conditioned souls back home, back to Godhead. ( SB 2. 2. 14)
The Supreme Lord is the seer of all worlds, both material and transcendental. In other words, the Supreme Lord is the ultimate beneficiary and enjoyer of all worlds, as confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā (5.29)
Yes, Everything is coming from Krishna and going back to Krishna. Krishna is the source of all and cause of all causes.
Krishna has unlimited potencies out of them three main are . 1. internal potency 2. external potency 3. marginal potency.
The soul is coming from the marginal potency of Lord.
The Supreme Brahman is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and the living entity is also Brahman. Without realization that he is Brahman, spirit soul, an eternal servitor of the Lord, if one simply thinks that he is Brahman, his realization is only theoretical. He has to realize and at the same time engage himself in the devotional service of the Lord; then he can exist in the Brahman status. Otherwise he falls down. ( SB 3. 25. 41 purport)
Yes, souls originating from Brahman and into Brahman they merge. Souls should never equate themselves to be Krsna. Simply by saying WE are brahman we are brahman .I am god you are god... world is God it wont work like this. Realization comes only when you do service to The Supreme Lord. Then the real knowledge will dawn.
The material covering the body, eyes, mouth, tongue, ears, nose, skin., hair teeth.. bones. muscles., are all made up of MATTER. How can then whatever comes out of our mouths Is Krishna's words??
Krishna is Parmatma residing in all jivas. Truth!!! but that doesn't make our bodies equal to Krsna. It is big blunderous mistake.
Aham Brahamasmi -- These words which came out of Sripada Sri Shankaracharya ji was after a self realization not simply .. claiming that i am brahaman , you are brahman...
This is not right.. we ( Here I am refering to souls).. are ofcourse having qualitatively same Sat chit ananda features of Supreme Lord. or Supersoul. But. Quantitatively we are very tiny sparks. And above all the maya which envoloped our souls.. making this material body ( physcial body) wont let us see so easily the Supreme brahman or self realization. It is JUST OUT OF FALSE EGO one claims that , I am God you are God.. everything is God. whatvever we talk is Godly.
This is all bogus theories. Self realized soul loses touch with sourroundings and can see himself ( SOUL) seperate from his body. and also see all souls of the beings seperate from their individual bodies.. The body is just any outer covering and is formed because of karma fal. We get the body because of the desires and inclinations and fruits of karma. We cannot claim this body as me or Krsna. NEVER. It is stupidity and blunder.
Vaishnavaites tell Krishna is God Yes. Krishna is only God all others are Demigods. They are all working under the direction of Supreme Lord Sri Krishna. It is an offense ( 2nd offence) to claim and give equal status to all demigods with krishna.
https://vedabase.io/en/library/bs/5/46/
The light of one candle being communicated to other candles, although it burns separately in them, is the same in its quality. I adore the primeval Lord Govinda who exhibits Himself equally in the same mobile manner in His various manifestations. ( Brahama Samhita 5.46).
Such atomic particles of the spirit whole are compared to the sunshine molecules. In the sunshine there are innumerable radiant molecules. Similarly, the fragmental parts of the Supreme Lord are atomic sparks of the rays of the Supreme Lord, called by the name prabha or superior energy. ( BG 2. 17 purport)
==>>We are a part of Krsna himself, but not him. But when we leave our bodies and reach Golok, we become one with Krsna. We become Krsna. As in, we cannot call a glass of ocean water ocean though it is a part of the ocean. But, if pour back the glass of water of the ocean, it becomes the ocean.<<==
For this statement. I would say it is correct. We are all parts of Krishna but not HIM true. We are tiny sparks emanating from the marginal potency of Krishna ..qualitatively same but not quantity wise. So what this statement told is correct.
Parmatma appears in front of us in any form you want???>> This is partially correct but not entirely.
Parmatma in the form of time Kala comes and stands before us to offer us our Karma Fala Or fruits of Karma.
Whatever we sow we shall reap Isn't it.
Parmatma is Time or Kala .. when time comes Parmatma will give us the results of our karma. But It is Utter foolishness to say that Parmatma is coming in humanoid form. Like We shouldn't equate any human body to Parmatma. Parmatma will award us results of karma when time comes..
For example... One person hurt you for suppose.. you beared the insulted silently, then when time comes Parmatma is watching this. He will give justice to us when time comes.. there will be a time again in future where the same person who hurt you will seek your forgiveness. It doesn't mean that Parmatma is coming directly.
Parmatma is making the same person to realize his mistake and come again to you and say sorry. Then you are given free will too by parmatma now to either forgive him or keep him as your enemy and hurt him back. It is upto ur decision. See.. parmatma deosn't involve in our decision makings. So How is it possible that Parmatma will come to you in whatever form you want? Who are you so great that You can make Parmatma to take up any form as you want??? is it not absurd to say so?
Christain philosophy and our philosophy has many difference and many similarities also. cannot say there no common things.
Christains believe in God we also believe in God.
Christains believe in Soul we also believe in it.
Christains believe that if we surrender to Jesus, Jesus will take away all our sins. We also believe in this. Is it not?
sarva-dharman parityajya
mam ekam saranam vraja
aham tvam sarva-papebhyo
moksayisyami ma sucah ( 18.66 BG)
Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear.
Only difference I see is.. they say compassion to all beings but they have meat and chicken?? I dont understand that point at all.
Another difference I see.. is confessing about their sins to a father in church and making a vow that they wont repeat and repentance to the sin.. clears of the sins. But in our Philosophy.. we say there is repentence only when we pay off to the sin. Karma will come back to us, whatever we did to others we have to suffer for that some day or other.
But surely if we repent for our sins and there is no complete clearing of the sins.. as per our Philosophy. .. the intensity of the suffering may be reduced but sins wont get washed off.
See if I had to suffer an accident mishap because of repentence and bhakti I did.. I might be just get a thorn prick instead of a big mishap.. but some way there is suffering .. little lesser suffering.
The Christians believe in confession and repentence and forgetting getting over .. ( AND AS they don't believe IN REBIRTH.. THEY have no fear that..Karma will rebound back to us).
Our philosophy is way different in this aspect. We have rebirth and paying off for the karma we did.
and the concept of heaven is only there. ...people think heaven is the highest limit one can go in Chistainity.
and resurruction of all dead souls will happen on some judgement day???
We don't have that philosophy .. Judgement day is not like something which comes some time very late. .. Every karma we do is recorded and we get the results of karma either then and there itself or..in next coming births. No waiting until judgement day.
Ya, we have hell and they have hell concept. But our hell concept is way different. If the Bad karma bank balance is more.. we get to go to hell and suffer. Until our bad karma and good karma get equalized.
We don't get human birth.
In human birth .. we ( our philosophy) we have chance to dissmiss all karmas and become lose all karmas ( bad + good) become akarmi ( ZERO KARMA) and return back to Godhead.
For Christains there is nothing like this.. They don't have this concept of getting other bodies like animal bodies for suffering bad karma results... In our Philosophy we get animal bodies to suffer for our karmas in material world also after some suffering in hell.
when our karmic balance is having both karmas ( good and bad karma) equalized then only we get human bodies..
For them they don't believe in animal bodies.. so they eat animals. they don't have pain for the animal suffering.
I don't understand.. their compassion also...They have pet animals they say the LOVE them.. and they eat animals ?? only the pet animal is dear because it is belonging to you?
completely not true. some aspects maybe matching.
Hare Krishna.
Hare Krsna! Thank you!