Hare Krishna!
All glories to Guru and Gaurang!
Dandvat to all the devotees!
I am from a hindu & sikh religion family, connected to KC from last 2 years appox, doing 16 rounds and following all the principles, now i have a great pressure for marriage from my family, i dont want to marry a non devotee family, can anybody please help me that where i can contact for matrimonial help? I am just putting my query in front of all the devotees because i am scared i my family find out any non devotee guy then my devotion path can be come to an end. Please help me the thought of getting far from KC is making me tremble. i know i should not write these things on this platform but only here i can approach my all the senior devotees altogether to please give me some guidance..because only all of can understand my concern.
Regards
Deepa Ahuja
Replies
HK Mataji:
Why do you think that marrying a karmi will spoil your devotional life ?
If you pray for Krsna's mercy, maybe you will find a suitable partner from your community itself. The path to spiritual life is not as rosy as you think. I have seen many devotee couples going in for divorce because of balancing issues between material and devotional life.
I have to tell you what I said above because you said you have started to practice KC since 2 years, so be it. Go with your parents consent if you are not initiated formally in ISKCON and don't have any counselors to guide you through.
We can practice KC in whichever varna and whichever ashrama we live in, we have many muslim matajis and prabhujis practicing KC without leaving their community.
Prabhupad's teachings was that matajis consider their husband as none other than Krsna himself, be it a drunkard or a karmi, he personally taught this to his sister.
I suggest, whoever your parents try to fix your partnership with, talk to him about your KC life and then proceed, who knows one day both can become Krsna's devotees.
Take life as it is offered to you and don't make any revolution on yourself without a guru's guidance.
Posting our personal problems in forums like this will invite 1000 opinions and people normally debate over others opinions, so our problems will go from worse to the worst.
I don't see any problem you being a Hindu Sikh. Guru Nanak was initiated by Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, though Guru Nanak believed in both personal and impersonal forms of the Lord. Have faith in your guru and Krsna and ask for their mercy, I am sure you will get a partner who will be or will become Krsna's devotee eventually.
Hare Krsna Deepa mataji
humble obeisances
It is true that posting this question in this community will give u lots of answers but trying to make a person devotee who does not have any information about Krsna consciousness is always a very difficult task when compared to going with someone who is into Krsna consciousness and knows all rules and regulations.
I COMPLETELY DISAGREE WITH KA PRAPPU PR IS SAYING HERE BECAUSE IT IS SIMPLY AGAINST WHAT I HAVE HEARD FROM DEVOTEES LIKE TEMPLE PRESIDENTS AND SENIOR GRIHASTHA DEVOTEES. IF YOU WANT I CAN GIVE YOU AN EMAIL ID WHO WILL GUIDE U REGARDING THIS. HE IS INITIATING SPIRITUAL MASTER IN ISKCON.
Regarding devotee couples going for divorce, it happens becuz their goals were not the same and both were not at the same level of spiritual life. So that is not a reason why devotees should marry non devotees. I personally know of cases where devotee matajis lives r miserable cuz they have married non devotees and are desperate to practise Krsna consciousness but are not able to as they want.
It is not necessary to be initiated in ISKCON formally to have a counselor and have a devotee husband , NO, this is FALSE. if this were true, ISKCON would be made of only initiated devotees.
In example, here is has been said that muslim devotees r practising Krsna consciousness not that devotees frm sanatan dharma background r going with non devotees to practise KC.
Prabhupada told his sister to consider her husband non other than Krsna, I dnt know where has this information come from but the real information is in this link
http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/profiles/blogs/when-the-husband-is-...
Also Srila Prabhupada and his sister were pure devotees, we cannot imitate them.
Yes, you can talk to the person about Krsna consciousness and be clear about ur priorities before marriage itself. If he agrees, very good.
Take life as it is offered to you, so we should accept all sense gratification as it is offered and should not try to make our Krsna consciousness better and should not go against all this, right??
I don't know who has said this that we should not try to make our Krsna conscious lives better!!!!
We should always try to make it better, and Krsna will give us a guru.
if you don't have any one to talk personally, you can ask sda@backtohome.com
, SankarDas Adhikari p.
yes, people normally debate about others opinions but it is always better to take expert guidance rather than following someone blindly. If you do not trust me please contact sda@backtohome.com
He is an initiating spiritual master and following him won't lead to any problems.
I humbly beg forgiveness if my words hurt anyone. I don't mean any offenses
your servant
i agree with Brother Rakesh Roshan Prabhu,
just yesterday i got message from my friend Mataji who was married to a karmi boy. First 1-2 years their life was very happy but yesterday she cries and writes that she started to chant not 16 but 2 hardly and she is in miserable condition.
But she was so nice Devotee, (no doubt she is so even now also) but her situation is so bad that she is not able to perform nice devotional service.
I had myself personal experience of associating with non devotees, living among them. Before that my sadhana was very strict, all rounds before 7, reading, association with Devotees....but when i just stayed with those people who did not wake up for Mangala Arati and hardly chant their rounds...i fall down also. My days started to become miserable.
On the place of waking up early in the morning they used to wake up after 6-7 and taking bath start to cook then whole day GOSSIP, GOSSIP, GOSSIP :O
On the place of taking pleasure from reading books they used to gossip with family members doing some jokes or something like that.
I become to stage of pulling off my hair and prayed to Krishna never ever to put me in such like association.
In this way after 20 days i also started to sleep late, wake up late :( life became very bad.
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Because of that if one has chance to get married to a Devotee then it is very good. One may marry to a karmi if he is also willing to follow 4 regulative principles and let wife at least to perform devotional service. Or else better to remain as brahmacharini. For a Devotee chanting is the meaning of life!
Only source of happiness. But when this source is closed then Devotee will die.
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Dear Deepa Mataji, it was very nice that You paste this discussion. We are not arguing and not fighting. And as someone told we are not brining our own mind concoctions by giving to You some advice but referring to authoritative sources.
Your servant,
HK,
I don't mean any offense to any others' posts on this discussion, but the fact is I don't have to prove my stance to every person on this planet.
My replies are based on different domains and I have to consider lot of things before suggesting something to any seeker.
What big difference if Rakesh Pr or Maral Mt does not agree to my view.
While many people discuss and suggest remedies from books, I take both books and life as tools to answer. It is up to the seeker to know if it has helped them or not.
I don't understand why everyone on this IDT forum is busy in putting forth their discussion as the only right way of understanding things.
Maraj Mt has given an example of a devotee who was not able to chant properly after marriage, so mataji is seeing that her devotional life has spoiled, but I am not seeing that. I don't know how it works in foreign, but for an Indian housewife, husband is Krsna, even if she cannot chant her rounds because of taking care of the husband, it is still okay with Krsna, He's not going to reject her just because she didn't chant 16 rounds. If she satisfies her husband, and worries that she is not able to serve Krsna properly, I think that is KRSNA CONSCIOUSNESS.
Please define what KC is ? let me see if I have understood it wrongly....
If something thinks by chanting 16 rounds and following regulative principles, one can go back to Goloka, you are in the dreams.
Regulative principles are in the level of kaya, vacha and manasa (physically, orally, and mentally). Ask a grihastha how difficult it is to follow 4 principles, there are very few pure devotees who can follow this. At the most, many practicing devotees can follow only three.
The illicit sex principle has a big catch, how many of us understand this. Even in grihastha life, if one engages in sex for sense gratification, it is a sin, so what are we trying to preach here telling everyone what is mentioned in books that we do this, we go to Goloka.
I stand by my comments, like it or not like it, please don't give rosy picture about KC to neophytes.
Hare Krsna ....
Hare Krsna KA pr
YOUR COMMENTS ARE AGAINST THE PRINCIPLES OF KRSNA CONSCIOUSNESS "
If something thinks by chanting 16 rounds and following regulative principles, one can go back to Goloka, you are in the dreams."
THIS IS COMPLETELY AGAINST WHAT I HAVE HEART FROM THE TEMPLE VICE PRESIDENT OF KOLKATA TEMPLE. HE TOLD CLEARLY IF WE FOLLOW 4 REGS and CHANT 16 ROUNDS THEN AT THE END OF LIFE , WE WILL GO BACK TO GODHEAD.
As a grihastha , it is difficult to follow 4 regs, it might be for those who don't consider following 4 regs important. Krsna is there to help those who are trying. Yes, illicit sex principle is a big catch and still there is a big congregation in some temples, who are sincerely following the principle and there are sincere brahmacaris who are following the principle. Grihasthas have only told, if you are sincere then you will be able to follow.
I SINCERELY REQUEST YOU DEEPA JI TO ASK SANKARSAN DAS ADHIKARI Pji, HE IS AN INITIATING SPIRITUAL MASTER,u can trust him.
THIS IS COMPLETELY FALSE THAT FOR A WIFE HUSBAND IS KRSNA. HUSBANDS WANT THEIR WIVES TO BE LIKE SITA AND THEY ARE NOT LIKE RAMA, SO THEY CANNOT DEMAND THEIR WIVES TO BE LIKE SITA ALSO.
WIFE HAS FULL RIGHT TO GO AHEAD WITH KRSNA CONSCIOUSNESS, I DON'T UNDERSTAND from where this concocted conception has come that one cannot go back home back to godhead by CHANTING 16 ROUNDS AND FOLLOWING 4 REGULATIVE PRINCIPLES. EVERYONE THROUGH OUT ISKCON SAYS THIS THING AND NEOPHYTES ARE ENCOURAGED TO DO THIS AND ASKED TO COME TO THAT STAGE at one point or the other, even if some grihastha devotees r not able to follow then they have to start following.
I humbly beg forgiveness again fr my words if they hurt.
YS
Hare Krishna Maral Mataji
"that who can see Krishna in Devotees, in scriptures. Who can discriminate between Devotees, simple people and atheists."
Its true mataji
Apologies if I have hurt anyone by my words.
What I wanted to say is that we cannot judge somebody's devotion just by chanting rules.
Many of my in-laws and cousins aunties , grandma's from other sampraday's are there who spend like 4/5 hours just serving Krishna,. And don't see them fixed to any certain rounds. But their devotion is also unparalleled .
This tradition of serving to Krishna has been there among Hindus from ages (now it's diminishing among young generation) and that does not mean that the way they are serving is low level (kanishtha).
One of the my cousins mother-in-law who is illiterate(hardly 3/4 class,cant read BG) and I got to know when I handed her one hindi BG book.She told me she has never read any books and cant see as well properly. But she is following all rules like no-meat eating/non-onion=garlic,vaishnav tilka because of the old tradition being performed by fore-fathers.
jai shree gokulesh
my humble obeisances KA Prabhu,
please do not be angry.
I am not in western country and in my country the same culture as in India. Meaning we are still closed country: in our country girls are not permitted to go out and do bad things. They are nicely protected by their fathers and family. Marriages also are done mostly by the help and desire of parents.
In our country TV channels it is forbidden to broadcast illicit things like sex, drugs, alcohol...by law it is forbidden to smoke, to drink in the social places...And again by law it is forbidden to do divorce or else one has to pay big amount of money to the government....
In our country also wives take care of their husband nicely.
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But such like open illicit things i started to see here in India unfortunately. Most times women are not protected here. They are in great danger and fear at their work places.
In our country students are not allowed to go out after 8PM and also wear only proper uniform and they do not mix with boys but when i came here i see the opposite things.
Please forgive me for saying that but it is true.
And that Mataji - friend is in Indian body and she is from India and her marriage was arranged by her father even though such like problem.
Please again, do not be offended!
Your servant,
Hare Krsna Mataji: Please accept my humble obeisances. AGTSP. AGTGAG.
Very nice example you have quoted about Prabhupad, it is very much true and I trust Prabhupad's words by every breath of my life, there is no doubt.
It is my unfortunate situation that my words seem to look like as if posted in anger, which is not so.
I give importance to practical life and relating KC into every situation I am being put in.
Since the topic of 4 regulative principles has come here, come further to the finer points of the same topic. I firmly believe that only a rare 1% out of all those following KC can sincerely follow 4 regulative principles and in that sense what Prabhupad said will work. What about the rest, like me.
Preach to any neophyte devotees like me about illicit sex with ones own wife, we will see our wives in someone else's arms very soon.
Maybe when the couple become older, they would have lost interest in sex, so they can follow 4 regulative principles easily.
As I said earlier, I see all the domains and dimensions before putting forth my words. Though my words look like against KC principles, it is a true fact, it is happening everywhere. When neophyte couple take up to KC, if either one is KC person, then they have a problem with the sex life, one of the partner will surely go stray. The karma accumulated by the husband if the wife is not chaste is very serious even though husband is a pure devotee, so husbands make compromise on their devotional life to safeguard themselves from onslaught of karma emerging from the wife not being chaste, and it is vice versa.
There are many life examples when we relate them to scriptures we know where we stand actually and this makes perfect sense that Prabhupad said 99% of my disciples will go heavenly planets for sure.
We should always try to look out for those 1% rare devotees, from whom we can take inspiration and try to follow in their footsteps.
Again, I request IDT forum devotees, please don't quote anything from books on this topic. This forum which is meant to be for the benefit of KC devotees has tainted the purpose with many bogus ritviks in this forum.
We need to create some forum etiquette so as to not debate on the topic and instead leave it to the person who asked the question to decide what is best for them.
I disconnected from this forum for being disturbed deeply, it was my fault that I came in today and tried to reply and I am in the target.
Vancha Kalpatarubyascha Kripa Sindhubya-evacha, patitanam pavanebhyo vaishnavebhyo namonamaha to everyone who are hurt from my messages.
I'll sincerely try not to associate in this forum again, but love for devotees brings me back here, so please tolerate. :)
Hare Krishna KA Prabhuji, please accept my humble obeisances! All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
Indeed You are very honored Devotee here on IDT, please do not think that somehow You hurt here someone! It is discussion and whatever problem we have we can only solve like this. Disease goes away with pain, isn't it?!
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And also Devotee will tolerate when someone criticizes him but he himself does not prefer to talk ill qualities of others, even though of people who behave not good. Let's not talk ill about ritviks. If they start to criticize other Devotees then we will become as like lions but if there is no reason why to disturb them, Prabhuji, don't You think so?!
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About 4 regulative principles:
Once new Devotee from US asked Srila Prabhupada what kind of bliss within the Holy Names. He told that he feels ecstasy using drugs but what is there in Holy Names???
Srila Prabhupada told that imagine this big room is filled with drugs and that is the Holy Name :D
When one really feels the sweet taste of the Holy Names other desires burn into ashes, peaces....
Now let's see the category of material desires:
First living entity gets pleasure and happiness through his tongue. It is the lowest stage of getting happiness. As an example, we can bring kids. Whatever they find they put into their mouses and try to taste.
Then comes "happiness" through opposite sex.
But when one over enjoys with opposite sex one looses taste even for that also and looks for other degraded sources of happiness like drugs, alcohol...
As we can see those who are addicted to drink or to use drug they are not interested in opposite sex but their injection or glass. Because drug gives so called more pleasure than sex slowing down the consciousness.
But if one over uses that one, will again look for other sources - more powerful sources of "happiness". And it will be through killing human beings and enjoying by seeing the death of the body. Even not killing directly but half killing. This condition is very very degraded condition.
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In this one has to be very careful. Why these things happen? Because we are eternal souls who is full of bliss and knowledge. But it is covered with this gross body. And the senses of this gross body can not give enough pleasure to the soul. Soul needs more, more, soul needs something which lasts for eternity.
And that can be only spiritual pleasure which we can taste through chanting the Holy Names.
And taste does not come easily. When we feel taste it means Krishna in His Holy Names, Holy Names are pleased with us to some extent.
And HH Niranjana Maharaja in one his lectures told that we can hear only 0.01 % of the Holy Name. And that will give us love for Godhead.
This body won't be able to tolerate more ecstasy, it will get crushed into peaces because spiritual ecstasy is not from this world....
Lord Chaitania used to hear all 100% of Holy Names. But for us even 0.01 is enough.
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And how we can achieve that kind of chanting? By putting our consciousness in proper way which is:
Humble than a blade of grass
tolerant than a tree
Respect everyone
and not to wait for respect to ourselves.
In this mood only we will be able to attract mercy of Krishna.
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i'm sure that You know all these things but just wrote what i heard and read in the lectures and understood.
Your servant,
HK Mataji, PAMHO, AGTSP, AGTGAG: Thanks for your inspiring quote
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