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hare krishana to all.
As i have just joined iskcon due to my spirtual journey question here are the fews
1. Why only krishna as some of the diety did not took birth..as shiva or vishnu
2. when it is the matter of service to human...............why chanting Hare Krishna Mahamantra
3. When any other diety lover enter the society why the diety like hanumat/ Durga are degraded by the preacher.
4. we are the human being and have fear in heart. should we critisize the empowered diety.
these are some of the question...... Please clear the fact.
Hare Krsna, PAMHO
1. I understood the question to be: why does Krsna take birth whereas Lord Shiva and Lord Vishnu doesn't. First, we need to understand that the birth of Lord Krsna (or his various incarnations like Lord Rama, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu) is transcendental. In other words, His birth can never be compared to ours. Lord Krsna descends out of His sweet will to primarily perform His superexcellent pasttimes and also to give satisfaction to/protect His devotees. Another reason that the Lord descends is to re-establish religious principles. Please note, Lord Shiva also took birth in an unusual way. Please refer to SB 3.12.*. Vishnu is Krsna's plenary expansion.
2. Please refer to BG 5.29. Hare Krsna mahamantra is harinam sankirtana yajna. It is non-different from Krsna Himself. Therefore, by preaching Lord Krsna's name, you are essentially curing them from their ultimate disease - birth, death, old age and disease.
3. A devotee doesn't degrade exalted personalities. But they see and respect them in their actual position. If I would say you and your dad/mum are on the same position, that your mum/dad should bow down to you, you would be offended right? Similarly, these exalted personalities also have to endure the same offence being made by many Hindus (because they equalise to Krsna). Devotees, on the other hand, they respect and see the exalted personalities in their actual position.
4. No, we shouldn't criticise any personalities. We get rid of fearlessness only by surrendering to the lotus feet of Sri Mukunda. Who turns the ocean of material miseries to the size of a calf's hooveprint. Please read Ambarish Maharaj's pasttime.
prabhuji, with all due respect....i have some knowledge of worshipping Gods other than Krishna and quiet frankly with you,there is no problem in worshipping other Gods....yes,very true....even Lord Krishna worshiped other Gods like Lord Ganesha and His Father Lord Shiva too where Krishna established Shiva Lingam in Vrindavan,...also both ParshuRama and Rama worshipped Lord Shiva where Lord ParshuRama mediated on Shiva for years to get the Blazing Axe so that to kill all adharmic kings ;while Lord Rama established Shiva Lingam in Rammeshwaram so that to get the boon from Shiva to win by killing His great devotee Ravana,similarly Lord Krishna encouraged Pandavas to worship Lord Shiva & His Shakti in the form of Durga,so that to get the boon of winning MahaBharata War and ruling the entire world...also in Kalki Purana of previous age of KaliYuga,it's clearly mentioned Lord Kalki worshipped Lord Shiva to get the blazing RatnaMaru Sword and Devadutta horse to kill all the melechas and corrupt kings for ruling the entire world...
therefore, who are we to say that other God should not be worshipped when God is worshipping God ,and increasing the importance of worshipping other God..
but for a true devotee or a bhakta, his Deity is Supreme, for example Mirabai who refused to worship Maa Bhavani, not bcoz Maa Bhavani is not worshippable, but only bcoz she had assumed Krishna as her husband in very young age and only worthy for worshipping...
but Devi Sita and Devi Rukamani worshipped Maa Bhavani...even Gopis worshipped Maa Bhavani in form of Maa Katayani so that they got Ghirdhar Gopala...as Pati....
Also, it is Lord Rama who said to Hanumanji that you would be worshipped in Kaliyuga....therefore in Kaliyuga, Saint tulsidasji increased the importance of worshipping Hanumanji by writing Hanuman Chalisa, Sunderkand, and BajrangBan , and those who recite any one of these texts , they after death would go to Vaikuntha loka.......( other than that Hanuman Chalisa is always recited to call Hanumanji before SrimadBhagwatam or Ramayan is started anywhere in the world)
also, Krishna said to Yogamaya,that in KaliYuga, you would be worshipped as Goddess..... similarly, Lord Rama said to MahaMaya Vaishno Devi, that you would also be worshipped as Goddess in both Dwapar & KaliYuga...and those who whole heartedly worship you and come to you at Katra,J&K, they would get moksha easily ,and come to my abode Vaikuntaloka...
so prabhuji,please tell how can many Hindus be authorised that they are doing offence worshipping other God/Goddess other than Rama/Krishna , when Rama/Krishna Himself is increasing the importance of worshipping other God/Goddess ?
Hare Krsna, PAMHO,
I didn't say it was an offence worshipping the demigods. To think that demigods like Lord Shiva and Lord Brahma are on the same platform and independent of Lord Krsna/Vishnu/Rama is an offence, it is nama-apparadha. Also, regarding demigod worship, it is not needed. There are many instances in the BG where Lord Krsna clearly says that demigod worship is done due to foolishness. Having said that, it is not bad worshipping demigods for Krsna bhakti. It is not true that Rama/Krsna is increasing the importance of worshipping other God/Goddess. It is contradictory, Krsna says sarva dharman paritagya. Yes, Lord Rama did worship Lord Shiva in Rameshwaram, but not due to the supremacy of Lord Shiva. One reason is in Padma Purana, Uttara Khanda, Lord Vishnu also tells Shiva-
'O powerful Rudra,in every age in My different incarnations I too shall worship you to delude the demons. Following these doctrines,they(demons and theists) will undoubtedly fall down.'
Our acharyas say the main reason is the Lord's loving affection for His devotees. Lord Rama simply bathed the Shiva Lingam, but Lord Krsna (svayam bhagavan) personally bathed the feet of the poor Brahmana Sudhama. Going by that logic, Sudhama must be the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Is it so? No right. Try to understand, our God is a person. Our God loves his devotees 10x more than His devotees loves Him. He is ready to become a servant of His devotees. But that doesn't change the constitutional position.
Prabhuji,with all due respect
according to my knowledge, Lord Shiva is not a minor god or demigod..even Daksha Prajapati who was great devotee of Vishnuji did the same crime showing Shiva minor god to Vishnu everywhere....but in the end what happened his stupidity of showing Vishnuji supreme than Shiva didn't work....and his all arrogance of showing Vishnu Supreme was finally cut-down with his own all people who everytime shows Shiva a minor god while Vishnu a Supreme God...and even Vishnuji didn't help his devotee Daksha Prajapati.
after this incident,Narada pancharatra came where Naradaji,the great devotee of Narayan, recited.
Shivo Harirhariha Shakshatchiva Eva Nirupitaha
Shivadveshi Haridrohi Vishnum Nityam Bhajanapi
‘Shiva is Hari and Hari is none other than Shiva. An enemy of Shiva is an enemy of Hari, even though anyone may daily worship Vishnu.’ (Narad Pancharatra) which is uploaded on the link http://puredevoteeseva.ning.com/m/blogpost?id=3913762%3ABlogPost%3A151352
by one of ISKCON member whose name is Shri Nrsngha Dasa Prabhuji, USA
And this is the biggest irony of ISKCON,that almost all iskcon devotees and aacharyas whether they are of india origin or foreign origin feel pleasure in calling Shiva- a demigod
prabhuji, we are just humans...we can commit crime..we can commit mistakes but must not do again and again like Daksha Prajapati who insulted Shiva everytime by showing Him small and minor to Vishnu
also from Brahma Sangita, vishnuji is milk and shivji is yogurt....but it doesn't mean that shivji becomes minor god or demogod
even lord says in Gita that i m only sankara among the 11 Rudras (where all 11 Rudras comes from Shiva), and now if we equate sankara = shiva according to BG 10:23, then it would mean that vishnu = shiva , which also means that vishnuji is now yogurt....but this is not the real truth...vishnuji is only sankara...he is not shiva...he is only milk and we should drink this milk everyday..other than that
one name of vishnuji is jagganath in puri and one name of shivji is vishwanatha in kashi
and both have the same meaning,which is,father of the universe or lord of the universe..
also read SrimadBhagwatam where there are so many slokas in praise of Lord Shiva,here i quote all the real authentic meaning of all some slokas, not the fabricated and edited meaning which has been done in the PURPORT
SB 8.7.23: O lord shiva , you are self-effulgent and supreme. You create this material world by your personal energy, and you assume the names Brahma, Viṣṇu & Maheshvara when you act in creation, maintenance and annihilation.
SB 8.7.24: O lord , You are the cause of all causes, the self-effulgent , inconceivable , and you are alone the Secret Parabrahman. You manifest various potencies in this cosmic manifestation. You are the Supreme Soul and the Highest Godhead. (Here,only for Shiva, the word Parabrahman is used,which is beyond someone's understanding & at the same time he is very secret & the Supreme Soul too)
SB 8.7.25:O lord shiva, you are the original source of Vedic literature. You are the original cause of entire creation, the life force, senses,the five elements,the three qualities(tamo,sato&rajo), and the mahattattva. You are eternal time, determination and two religious systems called truth & truthfulness. You are a refuge of the syllable OM, which consists of three letters a-u-m.
SB 8.7.26:O Father of all planets, scholars know that fire is your mouth, the surface of the earth is your lotus feet, eternal time is your movement, all sides are your ears, and Varuṇa, the ruler of waters, is your language. (Again ,this verse is only for SHIVA ,therefore, he is called Viswanatha=lord of the universe which equates to Jaganatha , but difference is only one which is "among the 11 RUDRAS, Vaudeva Sri Krishna is only Sankara.He is not Shiva. If he is Shiva,then all should accept that Sri Krishna is also yogurt.)
SB 8.7.27:O Lord, sky is your navel, the air is your breathing, the sun is your eyes and your seed is water. You are the refuge of all living beings, both developed and low. The God of the Moon is your mind and the upper planetary system is your head.
SB 8.7.28:O Lord, you are the three Vedas personified. Seven seas is are your abdomen, and the mountains are your bones. All drugs, creepers and plants are hairs on your body, Vedic mantras such as Gāyatrī are the seven components of your body, and the Vedic religious system is the core of your heart.
SB 8.7.29:O Lord, the Vedas are represented by your five faces, from which the thirty-eight most famous Vedic mantras have been generated. Your Lordship, being celebrated as Lord Śiva, is self-illuminated. You are directly situated as the Highest and the Supreme truth, known as Paramātmā.
SB 8.7.30:O Lord, your shadow is seen in irreligion,which brings about varieties of irreligious creations. The three qualities of nature - sato, rajo and tamo - are your three eyes. All Vedic lyrics, full of verses, come from you because their creators wrote different scriptures after you looked at them with your eyes.
and now the final sloka
SB 8.7.31: O Lord Girisa, since You are Para Brahman which is transcendental to the material modes of goodness, passion and ignorance, the various directors of this material world certainly cannot appreciate it or even know where it is. It is not understandable even to Lord Brahmā, Lord Viṣṇu or the King of heaven, Mahendra.
Also, in the Lanka Kaanda, when Lord Rama establishes the Rameshwaram Shiva Linga and WORSHIPS LORD SHIVA before proceeding on to the battle.
Lord Rama declares that – “If a person degrades lord Shiva and calls himself My devotee; and if a person degrades me and calls himself Shiva devotee, THEN THAT PERSON IS A FOOL, HELL-RESIDER AND POOR-MINDED.”
The SAME LINE is told by Lord Shiva to king Daksha in SHIVA MAHA PURANA after he got the Goat Head that "Hey Daksha ! if a Vishnu devotee degrades me and if a Shiva devotee degrades lord Vishnu, then BOTH THESE TYPE OF DEVOTEES will automatically get all the ‘curses’ that have been given to you and these types of devotees will remain devoid of tattva gyaan i.e. the highest spiritual knowledge
prabhuji,when i replied on the question worshiping other God, i wrote "God is worshipping God and God is increasing the importance of other God/Goddess" and when you replied you wrote that "God is Vishnu,and other are DemiGods"
i hope you understood what kind of knowledge i possess and what kind of knowledge you possess..
still if you feel pleasure in calling shiva a demigod/minor god like Daksha PrajaPati, then you are free to call it ,no one will prevent you but one thing you should remember its results would be very worse as said by one of the real krishna devotee Mr VJ Singh prabhuji..
(also,don't reply me now & then,i m requesting you,don't reply me ,if u r really the true devotee of krishna)
Prabhu, I have no problem with you insulting me. You are right, you are very knowledgeable and I am a desolate fool. You may chant this on your japa beads. But, in your reply I see you directly attacking Srila Prabhupada by calling his purports fabricated. You are attacking Srila Prabhupada's institution. Prabhu, I don't wish to argue with you, but I don't think your philosophy and the Gaudiya Vaishnava philosophy can coexist. This forum is about Srila Prabhupada and his instruction. We ONLY DISCUSS Srila Prabhupada's teachings. You should not disturb the followers like this. You should question yourself, whether you should stay on this forum or not. If you choose the former, you must abide by Srila Prabhupada's teachings. Please don't take this the wrong way, I have no interest in arguing with you, I don't have the knowledge to argue with you. But don't cause disturbance like this.
Mr Vijendra aka Mr VJ singh,please stop blowing your own trumpet.This forum has been very nicely maintained by devotees for some relevant discussions concerning sadhna bhakti and not for arguing based on self concocted philosophy.
Anybody can find quotes here and there and quote them out of context to twist the real purpose and meaning of some sloka or some conversation.Yes you can even do so using "authorized" database like vedabase too.
The points contrary to gaudiya vaishnava tradition or in other words your points contrary to Srila praphupada teachings will neither resonate nor change anything here.
I had much to say but looking at your discussions with other devotees,it seems that whatever i say will fall on deaf ears.