Hare Krishna prabhuji.I am practicing Krishna consciousness since 3 and half years.i try to preach.i am convincing my friend that Krishna is supreme personality but he says all the three personalities -brama ,vishnu,mahesh are equal.Though I try to support my statement through bhagat gita and shrimad bhagvatam , he is not convinced.he says it's Krishna book,therefore it praises him ,he says that in shiv puran it is stated that shiv ji supreme and ultimate truth.Kindly tell me how to answer him.Hare Krishna.
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He says that in shiv puran it is stated that shiv ji supreme is ultimate truth.
Ask your friend which verse in Shiv Puran says that Shiva is Supreme
he says it's Krishna book,therefore it praises him
By that logic Brahma Samhita is expected to praise Lord Brahma. Contrary to his (naive) logic, In Brahma Samhita Lord Brahma who is son of Vishnu glorifies Govinda - Krsna.
i try to preach.i am convincing my friend that Krishna is supreme personality
There is difference between preaching and convincing others.
For preaching we need 2 things - 1. Self Conviction or Faith & 2. Blessings (Mercy) of Lord Sri Sri Gaur Nitai.
Before going America to Srila Prabhupada was waiting for the second.
For trying to convince others we need idle time. While it is understandable that all devotees have enthusiasm to share Krsna consciousness, we also need to draw a line between what is possible and what isn't. It isn't possible to convince most people, but it is always possible to increase our own faith and conviction and wait for the mercy of Lordships Sri Chaitanya and Sri Nityananda. They decide all preaching related transformations, we need to always remember it.
The Brahma Sampradaya (Brahma-sampradāya) refers to the disciplic succession (sampradaya) of gurus starting with Brahma.
Rudra Sampradaya is one of four Vaishnavasampradayas, the sampradaya is believed to have traced its origins to the Hindu deity Shiva, also known as Rudra, who passed on the knowledge imparted to him by Vishnu (or Krishna), on mankind.
Brahma and Rudra both are spreading Krishna's glories to mankind..????
Well If all three were equal then?? they wont spread glories of the third right???
diparchir eva hi dashantaram abhyupetya dipayate vivrita-hetu-samana-dharma yas tadrig eva hi cha vishnutaya vibhati govindam adi-purusham tam aham bhajami ( Brahma Samhita )
Translation:-
The light of one candle being communicated to other candles, although it burns separately in them, is the same in its quality. I adore the primeval Lord Govinda who exhibits Himself equally in the same mobile manner in His various manifestations.
I will give the important points from that purport.
>>All the majestic attributes of Govinda, aggregating sixty in number, are fully present in His majestic manifestation, Nārāyaṇa.
>>Brahmā and Śiva are entities adulterated with mundane qualities. Though Viṣṇu is also divine appearance in mundane quality (guṇa-avatāra), still He is not adulterated.
>>The appearance of Nārāyaṇa in the form of Mahā-Viṣṇu, the appearance of Mahā-Viṣṇu in the form of Garbhodakaśāyī and the appearance of Viṣṇu in the form of Kṣīrodakaśāyī, are examples of the ubiquitous function of the Divinity.
>> Viṣṇu is Godhead Himself, and the two other guṇa-avatāras and all the other gods are entities possessing authority in subordination to Him.
>>From the subjective majestic manifestation of the supreme self-luminous Govinda emanate Kāraṇodakaśāyī, Garbhodakaśāyī, Kṣīrodakaśāyī and all other derivative subjective divine descents (avatāras) such as Rāma, etc., analogous to communicated light appearing in different candles, shining by the operation of the spiritual potency of Govinda.
Hare Krishna.
Sampradaya
In Hinduism, a sampradaya ( Sanskrit : सम्प्रदाय IAST sampradāya) can be translated as ‘tradition’, 'spiritual lineage' or a ‘religious system’. It r…
Very good - you are trying to convince your friend. In the process, you are forced to read and get answers to uncomfortable questions.
Tell him: Brahma Vishnu Mahesh are the 3 main devatas in the material world. However, there is someone above Them. For Brahma, it is very easy - say the story of Hiranyakasipu getting boon from R+Brahma - where Brahma himself says, I will also die, how can i give boon that you don't die.
For Shiva, yes He is unborn. Shiv Puran will glorify Shiva, yes, but anywhere Shiva Himself is saying - I am the Supreme, there is nothing or nobody superior to Me, and after knowing Me, there is nothing left to be known? No. That only Krsna is saying, only in Gita - both Bhagavad Gita and Uddhav Gita.
If he is still not convinced, let go. Don't argue with him any further. Simply tell him, you agree that Krsna is God/ superior to you na. So please chant the mahamantra - minimum 4 rounds, for a minimum of 6 months. Then we will review.
There are 18 main puranas - 6 in the mode of goodness, 6 in passion and 6 in ignorance. So much variety is there to cater to variety of needs of the so many jivas. Some take a gradual process of progress, some progress faster. It depends on past karma and sukriti. Each purana is glorifying the presiding deity of that purana. The authority is not just purana, it is revealed scriptures like Srimad Bhagawatam and Bhagavad Gita. After reading these, one is automatically convinced. Even if one is not, or if one is not willing to read even, still he is accepting Brahma Vishnu Mahesh as presiding deities of the material world. Tell him to pray to Vishnu, the maintainer. Creation work is over by Brahma, anyways nobody prays to Brahma because of a curse to him, and annihilation is still some time away. So pray to Vishnu/ Vishnu tattva. You will get unlimited mercy.
Try telling him the story of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. He is the yugavatar for Kaliyuga. If you speak about Mahaprabhu, His mercy will manifest and your friend may get convinced. Typically we avoid talking about Mahaprabhu thinking how will this person understand. Still, the mercy of Mahaprabhu and Nityanand prabhu is such that simply remembering Them and mentioning Them can be a deal clincher. The mercy flows unlimitedly.
Replies
Thank you all for guiding me correctly .
Your's servant
Devanssh agrawal
Hare Krsna
He says that in shiv puran it is stated that shiv ji supreme is ultimate truth.
Ask your friend which verse in Shiv Puran says that Shiva is Supreme
he says it's Krishna book,therefore it praises him
By that logic Brahma Samhita is expected to praise Lord Brahma. Contrary to his (naive) logic, In Brahma Samhita Lord Brahma who is son of Vishnu glorifies Govinda - Krsna.
i try to preach.i am convincing my friend that Krishna is supreme personality
There is difference between preaching and convincing others.
For preaching we need 2 things - 1. Self Conviction or Faith & 2. Blessings (Mercy) of Lord Sri Sri Gaur Nitai.
Before going America to Srila Prabhupada was waiting for the second.
For trying to convince others we need idle time. While it is understandable that all devotees have enthusiasm to share Krsna consciousness, we also need to draw a line between what is possible and what isn't. It isn't possible to convince most people, but it is always possible to increase our own faith and conviction and wait for the mercy of Lordships Sri Chaitanya and Sri Nityananda. They decide all preaching related transformations, we need to always remember it.
Hare Krsna
Hare Krishna,
Have you noticed.. one important thing.?
The Brahma Sampradaya (Brahma-sampradāya) refers to the disciplic succession (sampradaya) of gurus starting with Brahma.
Rudra Sampradaya is one of four Vaishnava sampradayas, the sampradaya is believed to have traced its origins to the Hindu deity Shiva, also known as Rudra, who passed on the knowledge imparted to him by Vishnu (or Krishna), on mankind.
Brahma and Rudra both are spreading Krishna's glories to mankind..????
Well If all three were equal then?? they wont spread glories of the third right???
diparchir eva hi dashantaram abhyupetya
dipayate vivrita-hetu-samana-dharma
yas tadrig eva hi cha vishnutaya vibhati
govindam adi-purusham tam aham bhajami ( Brahma Samhita )
Translation:-
The light of one candle being communicated to other candles, although it burns separately in them, is the same in its quality. I adore the primeval Lord Govinda who exhibits Himself equally in the same mobile manner in His various manifestations.
If you can grasp the idea from this verse..
Purport :-
https://www.vedabase.com/en/bs/5/46
refer to this purport.
I will give the important points from that purport.
>>All the majestic attributes of Govinda, aggregating sixty in number, are fully present in His majestic manifestation, Nārāyaṇa.
>>Brahmā and Śiva are entities adulterated with mundane qualities. Though Viṣṇu is also divine appearance in mundane quality (guṇa-avatāra), still He is not adulterated.
>>The appearance of Nārāyaṇa in the form of Mahā-Viṣṇu, the appearance of Mahā-Viṣṇu in the form of Garbhodakaśāyī and the appearance of Viṣṇu in the form of Kṣīrodakaśāyī, are examples of the ubiquitous function of the Divinity.
>> Viṣṇu is Godhead Himself, and the two other guṇa-avatāras and all the other gods are entities possessing authority in subordination to Him.
>>From the subjective majestic manifestation of the supreme self-luminous Govinda emanate Kāraṇodakaśāyī, Garbhodakaśāyī, Kṣīrodakaśāyī and all other derivative subjective divine descents (avatāras) such as Rāma, etc., analogous to communicated light appearing in different candles, shining by the operation of the spiritual potency of Govinda.
Hare Krishna.
Thank you very much for your help and guidance.
Though I chant only 2 rounds I will soon increase my chanting back to 4 rounds.
Hari bol.
Your's servant
Devanssh agrawal
Hare Krsna PRabhuji,
PAMHO.
Very good - you are trying to convince your friend. In the process, you are forced to read and get answers to uncomfortable questions.
Tell him: Brahma Vishnu Mahesh are the 3 main devatas in the material world. However, there is someone above Them. For Brahma, it is very easy - say the story of Hiranyakasipu getting boon from R+Brahma - where Brahma himself says, I will also die, how can i give boon that you don't die.
For Shiva, yes He is unborn. Shiv Puran will glorify Shiva, yes, but anywhere Shiva Himself is saying - I am the Supreme, there is nothing or nobody superior to Me, and after knowing Me, there is nothing left to be known? No. That only Krsna is saying, only in Gita - both Bhagavad Gita and Uddhav Gita.
If he is still not convinced, let go. Don't argue with him any further. Simply tell him, you agree that Krsna is God/ superior to you na. So please chant the mahamantra - minimum 4 rounds, for a minimum of 6 months. Then we will review.
There are 18 main puranas - 6 in the mode of goodness, 6 in passion and 6 in ignorance. So much variety is there to cater to variety of needs of the so many jivas. Some take a gradual process of progress, some progress faster. It depends on past karma and sukriti. Each purana is glorifying the presiding deity of that purana. The authority is not just purana, it is revealed scriptures like Srimad Bhagawatam and Bhagavad Gita. After reading these, one is automatically convinced. Even if one is not, or if one is not willing to read even, still he is accepting Brahma Vishnu Mahesh as presiding deities of the material world. Tell him to pray to Vishnu, the maintainer. Creation work is over by Brahma, anyways nobody prays to Brahma because of a curse to him, and annihilation is still some time away. So pray to Vishnu/ Vishnu tattva. You will get unlimited mercy.
Try telling him the story of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. He is the yugavatar for Kaliyuga. If you speak about Mahaprabhu, His mercy will manifest and your friend may get convinced. Typically we avoid talking about Mahaprabhu thinking how will this person understand. Still, the mercy of Mahaprabhu and Nityanand prabhu is such that simply remembering Them and mentioning Them can be a deal clincher. The mercy flows unlimitedly.
Haribol,
Your servant,
Radha Rasamayi DD