Hare Krsna
Please accept my humble obeisance. All glories to Srila Prabhupada
There was a person in a village who had acquired occult powers through intense penance. He was a close friend of a merchant in the village. Whenever the merchant had any problems or troubles in his business or personal life, he would approach this person and have his issues instantly resolved by virtue of the divine powers acquired through penance.
After all, the merchant was human too. One day, he picked up a quarrel with this divine person over some issue and it became a big fight. Now the merchant was in depression. He lost his self-confidence and fell sick. This was because he was terribly afraid that the same friend of his, who had done a lot of good to him during his heydays, could now deploy his occult powers to harm the merchant, now that he is his deadly enemy. This very thought troubled the merchant and he became fit for nothing owing to depression.
One goes to the temple and prays to the Lord. Imagine that the Lord destroys all his bad Karma. Fickle-minded human that he is, tomorrow he may turn against God and start abusing Him or denying His very existence. Then he would think, Oh! God! when I was close to God, He absolved all my bad karmas. Now that I am no more grateful to Him, will He destroy my good Karmas too? This very thought will make his life a miserable one.
Hence, unless one is a great Bhakta or surrenders to God through a Uttama Guru, the Lord does not interfere with his karmas.
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please accept my humble obeisances!
Today in the Srimad Bhagavatam class we heard that Krishna gave His mercy to Yamal Arjuna trees, who were sons of Kuvera in previous life, just because to support the words and desire of a pure Devotee Narada Muni.
In spiritual world one can live only if one has the consciousness of "a servant of servants' servant"
"Das anudas".
Real ritvik Guru means for example, when Janmenjaya - son of King Parikshit performed snake sacrifice he called yagyamans and from his part they read all mantras and did yagya. They were called as Ritvik yagya performers. It means on behalf of someone but result goes to the person from whose behalf is done.
...
One of the main reasons why some people do not want to worship Guru who is still here on Earth planet means one is not able to bow down his head. "Better to worship someone who is not here, far away who won't chastise us..."
It is a very bold FALSE EGO. It is very difficult to accept some other one greater than me myself and obey to his instruction.
Srila Prabhupada once predicted that HH Jayapataka Swami will have more than 10 000 disciples in the future. This one only shows that Srila Prabhupada wanted his disciples to become Gurus and accept disciples.
Meera bai?? Tukaramji??? Might be they also read Srimad Bhagavatam, and Bhagavat Gita or else how will they have knowledge about Krishna?
But in Srimad Bhagavatam which ever Devotee we see he had a Guru.
Dhruva Maharaja - Narada Muni
Narada Muni himself was a son of a mead-servant. In that life he gained knowledge from Bhaktivedantas and practiced Bhakti Yoga but could not achieve love for Godhead. So in the next life took birth as a son of Lord Brahma and accepted him as his Guru.
Bharata Maharaja - Lord Himself Rshabhadev.
Hanumanji - Son God
Even Krishna and Lord Balaram studied under the guidance of Sandipani Muni.
In this way to have Guru whom we can hear, worship, obey to his instructions in very important.
Your servant,
Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya spoke to Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabu : "Being ordered by his father, Lord Parasurama killed his mother, Reṇuka, just as if she were an enemy. When Laksmana, the younger brother of Lord Sri Ramacandra, heard of this, He immediately engaged Himself in the service of His elder brother and accepted His orders. The order of the spiritual master must be obeyed without consideration." - Sri Caitanya Caritamrta, Madhya Lila : 10.144
So, the matter is if we are fit to be considered, it's not that we test the guru for his purification.
If someone has this idea of questioning a Guru's authority, then better remain an atheist.
Hare Krsna...
harE krishnA !! my humble prAnAms to bhagavAn and BhAgavathAs,
While it may be superficially offensive to test a guru, one should be careful before surrendering oneself to a Guru's authority. When Sri Rama and Lakshmana visited Kishkinda near the mount of Rishyamukha, Hanumanji took the form of a brahmana and tested the authenticity of Rama. By hearing the answers of Rama, Hanumanji then surrendered his heart to Sri Rama. Therefore, good devotees follow the footsteps and examples set by Hanumanji. But once surrendered, they never look back. Hanumanji performed miracles and wonders by his simple yet unshakeable faith on Rama NaamA.
||shri krishnA sharanam mama||
Radhe Krishna!!
K.A Prabhuji, have you ever been to small places in INDIA where there are gurus from other sampradayas as devoted as your gurus. So how can you judge?
One of my aunt follows guru from nimbarka sampradaya. I see her as devoted as any other devotee from ISKCON.
I agree because ISKCON preaches widely and is accessible to modern/western societies as well,that's why it seems to be more bonafide. However that's not the deciding factor to judge gurus of other sampradaya. Praphupada clearly stated "Initiation should be from heart. Formal initiation is not important"
If the so called bonafide guru is fallen what would you do?
Ritviks philosophy seems more appealing to me in this modern age of kalyug where its very difficult to find a true guru. (Let Srila praphupad initiate everybody).
All glories to Srila praphupad.
jai shree Krishna
HK mataji, I didn't deny the existence of other philosophies in my discussion. What I meant to say was that it is only in ISKCON that a candidate is given ample time and education about the philosophy and pure devotion before he is given the actual initiation, which I am sure no other philosophy is following.
The shiksha program is very special in ISKCON, it gives everyone a chance to participate and progress accordingly.
Once we have come here, there is no looking back and doing the research. I was a firm atheist and non-believer of god before I came here. The presentation that Prabhupad has given about pure devotional appealed to me and I realized that this is my destination.
Though the initiation takes place in heart initially, a formal initiation by a bonafide guru is at most important and a meeting to this effect was held long back with dignitaries of Shri Vaishnava sampradaya and Madhwa sampradhava involving HH Pejawar Shri also in front of MPD and GBC team and it was decided in that meeting that initiation from a living guru is the only accepted procedure.
How can MPD connect you to Prabhupad directly when he is not even authorized by his own Guru, HH Jayapataka Swami to initiate disciples on his behalf, he is doing offense on both his Shiksha Guru and Deeksha Guru by not obeying their orders. This is perverted ritvik system.
What is the harm in taking initiation from GBC gurus ? they are actually instructed by Prabhupad to give initiations who will become Prabhupad's grand disciples.
Hare Krishna Alka mataji,
PAMHO. AGTSP. AGTSG&SG
Ritvik philosophy what you see now in ISKCON Bangalore headed by Madhupandit Pr and his associates is nothing but a perverted reflection of actual ritvik system. Ritvik system of initiation is practiced when the initiating Guru is physically present on this planet and personally gives permission to his disciples to give initiation to other devotees on his behalf. This is what had happened in ISKCON in 1977 also when SP was very sick and was not able to travel to give initiation, he had asked some of his disciples to accept disciples on his behalf. SP at many occasions has told that his disciples will take forward the movement in future after him. That is the reason why he had appointed GBC also. He would say that any thing decided by GBC is OK to me.
Yes there had been cases where the devotee at the position of a initiating Guru fell down from his position for what ever reasons. This does not mean that we should loose faith on the process itself and take to something cheap. Krishna says in BG evam parampara praptaam... the Guru sisya parampara has to continue and can not stop at some point like what ritviks claim. Just like in a school, there are all types of students. Just because one or two students fail the exam does not mean that the system is wrong. We should see how other students passed and some even got rank who all attended the same class. So we can understand that the student failed not because of the quality of education but his own lack of concentration and not willingness to study.
It is said that the final instructions of the Guru is of MOST importance. SP while leaving his body, asked all his followers to cooperate with each other in order to make him happy. If these so called followers of Prabhupaad really want to follow his instruction, they would not put case on each other and try to loot the property of Krishna for their own benefit. Just think about it.
hare krsna to all devotees
PAMHO AGTSP
thank u for sach a beautiful replysss...
& info....
your servent
vinay
HK,
This is the sole purpose of understanding the science of God through Bhagavad Gita.
God never interferes in the life of anyone unless he has fully surrendered and calls out for His help. It is the Guru, who takes all the karmas of his disciple, cleanses him completely and presents him to Krsna.
As we go closer to Guru and Krsna, there is no question of bad karma / good karma remaining, it will all be neutralized naturally. When we take up to KC and practice it throughout the life and if there is anything remaining, that would be called as Sukruthi, which will help us take birth again in this world or in heavenly planets and continue our KC from the point we left it in the previous life.
This special mercy of Guru taking all the karmas to purify his disciple is also possible with ISKCON only, there are no other gurus who can do this for their disciples. HH Jayapataka Swami and many other initiating gurus are the classic examples in ISKCON today.
This is where Ritviks fail.
Hare Krsna..
harE krishNa !! my humble pranAms to bhagavan and bhAgavathAs ..
@K.A.Prabhuji, Guru takes all the karmAs of the disciple and purifies the disciple. How does one know he is purified. What are the symptoms? While Bhagavad Gita explain the characteristics of the trigunAs - sattva, rajas and tamas, how does one realize that he's become purified (transcend the gunAs)
||shri krishna sharanam mama||
Please accept my humble obeisances KA Prabhuji,
we do not want to say that in other 3 samradayas one can not take shelter and go back to Godhead, isn't it Prabhuji?!
As per lectures of HH Radhanath Swami and other senior Devotees i heard that one should be initiated by a bona fide Guru who is connected with one of 4 authorized sampradayas.
Brahma Madhava Gaudiya
Rudra
Sri
Kumar
They are all leading to Home back to Godhead. And it is not true to say that only being in ISKCON one can achieve love for Godhead.
One's bhava and destined planet might be different in this way Sampradaya also will be different.
But one problem is that other 3 sampradayas do not preach widely as ISKCON Devotees do these days by the mercy of LOrd Chaitania.
Please forgive me, but i know that there was no need to write it here but for the sake of new comers we have to write it.
Your servant,
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