Dear devotees, Hare Krishna. I have never read Ramcaitmanas so I cannot comment on it.
I have heard many of you say in the forums here it has some mayavada and impersonalism in it.
So I would like that these learned persons quote these slokas they claim are mayavada and impersonalism.
Simply saying Prabhupada said is not good enough.
You have to show some evidence or it is meaningless accusations only.
It is said and historically recorded according to scholars that Tulasi das was put into prison by a king who demanded that Tulasi das show him some miracle.
Tulasi das had refused saying he was just a simple devotee of Lord Rama and had no miracle.
That night thousands of monkeys came and attacked the kings house and destroyed his gardens.
The king personally came and released Tulasi das bowing down and thanking him for showing him this miracle.
Tulasi das said he had done nothing but the king thought that it was just a show of modesty by a sadhu.
So if Tulasi das was not a pure devotee then why did this happen?
There are some apparent statements of impersonalism in Srimad Bhagavatam but devotees do not take these to mean that Srimad Bhagavatam teaches impersonalism.
So I would like to see these mayavada and impersonalism verses of Ramcaritmans
that show Tulasi das to be not a pure devotee.
Hare Krishna.
Replies
Prabhuji, What you have written is commendable and worth appreciation. One has too go deep into the mood of Bhakti to stand up bold and speak in favor of many of the Mahaans who are resplendent irrespective of what the world feels about them. I am now in the Krishna Conscious movement (its more than a decade now); however Tulsi Ramayana or Ramcharit Manas is still one of my favorite granthas. It is written by a pure devotee ; by one who is a reincarnation of the very same Valmiki ; who appeared in Kaliyuga as Tulsidasa to distribute Rama Prema. Prema is usually spoken in context of Lord Krishna ; but here Ramcharit Manas gives you the essence of Bhakti in the context of "Maryada". The explanations of Tulsidasa is very much in the mode of Raganuga. Tulsidasa had personal darshana of Lord Ramchandra and Laxmana at Chitrakoot. It is baseless to say that Tulsidasa was a Mayavada!!
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My Dear Prabhuji,
Dandavata Pranam
Please refer appropriate translations for Ramcharitmanas. I can show you various verses from Srimad Bhagavd gita & Srimad Bhagvatam which has been presented from a mayavadi point of you. But for the same verses if we refer to Vaishnava commentaries from the 4 sampradayas we can see the Vaishnava understanding of it.
Just like only for Bhagvata gita in India itself we have more than 500 Mayavadi translations so also we have Mayavadi interpretations for Ramcharitmanas. Srila Prabhupada gave a class on a verse from ramcharitmanas on Radhastami day in Montreal. If he was a mayavadi why would Srila Prabhupada gave a class on Radhastami day from Ramcharitmanas. I have compiled a Article: Srila Prabhupada on Goswami Tulasidas..please find the link below.
1. https://www.facebook.com/notes/brajsunder-das/life-of-goswami-tulas...
2.https://www.facebook.com/notes/brajsunder-das/srila-prabhupada-on-g...
3.https://www.facebook.com/notes/brajsunder-das/srila-prabhupadas-lec...ādhāṣṭamī-from-ramcharitmanas-śrīmatī-rādhārāṇīs-a/727631580608668
Your servant
Brajsunder Das
Mayavada Conclusions
There are numerous statements in Srimad-Bhagavatam and other Vaisnava
scriptures which may seem to support mayavada conclusions. In these sastras
the Absolute Truth is sometimes referred to as advaya-jnana, and kaivalya is
sometimes spoken of as the ultimate destination. Following is a quote,a verse
and translation from Srila A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja's Srimad
Bhagavatam translation (4.22.27) which superficially seems to support the
mayavada theory:
dagdhasayo mukta-samasta-tad-guno
naivatmano bahir antar vicaste
paratmanor yad-vyavadhanam purastat
svapne yatha purusas tad-vinase
"When a person becomes devoid of all material desires and liberated from all
material qualities, he transcends distinctions between actions executed
externally and internally. At that time the difference between the soul and the
Supersoul, which was existing before self-realisation, is annihilated. When a
dream is over, there is no longer a distinction between the dream and the
dreamer."
Although this verse and others may be misinterpreted to support the mayavada
theory, Srila Prabhupada has clearly explained its true Vaisnava conception in
his commentary. For a correct understanding, individual verses must be
understood in relationship to the overall presentation.
Sridhara Swami, the original Bhagavatam commentator, was sometimes
accused of having mayavada leanings; yet Caitanya Mahaprabhu accepted him
as being most authoritative. He said that anyone who disregarded the
commentary of Sridhara Swami should be rejected as a prostitute, or one who
does not follow his Swami. Similarly, there may be some statements of Tulasi
dasa which could be misinterpreted as supporting mayavada conclusions, but
these then must be reconciled in relationship to his overall presentation of
siddhanta.
Dear Devotees,
Dandavat Pranam,
Saubhari muni by offending Garuda fell down from his yogic position. Similarly for devotees who criticize Goswami Tulasidas will also be in the same category if they offend the lotus feet of Mahabhagavata Goswami Tulasidas.
Please analyze the below three compilations on Goswami Tulasidas and save yourselves.
1. https://www.facebook.com/notes/brajsunder-das/life-of-goswami-tulas...
2.https://www.facebook.com/notes/brajsunder-das/srila-prabhupada-on-g...
3.https://www.facebook.com/notes/brajsunder-das/srila-prabhupadas-lec...ādhāṣṭamī-from-ramcharitmanas-śrīmatī-rādhārāṇīs-a/727631580608668
I hope after going through the above three compilations of articles on Goswami Tulasidas there wont be any doubt left in anybody. But still anybody wish to comment debate on this subject matter..then i am ready to serve you.
I am available on: www.facebook.com/brajsunderdas
Thank you
Your servant
Brajsunder Das
Dear devotees Hare Krishna. well so far we have only some verses that can be interpreted as impersonalism or mayavadism .
These verses interpreted by a vaisnava will be fine as far as I can see in the English you have given.
Is there any other verses which sound more mayavada than this?
Srimad Bhagavatam has verses which lend themselves to mayavada interpretation much more than this.
example is SB 1.2.21
Thus the knot in the heart is pierced, and all misgivings are cut to pieces. The chain of fruitive actions is terminated when one sees the self as master.
Mayavadis say this clearly shows how when you are liberated you realize you are one with God.
That is mayavada that you are God.
Of course devotees never say the author of Bhagavatam is influenced by mayavada philosophy.
Another thing is that acaryas have said that a pure devotee is recognized by how many people they make into devotees of the Lord.
So Tulasi das has made so many devotees of Lord Rama and Hanuman.
These devotees I have met are always chanting Rama's names and are not mayavadis.
So again please give some evidence that Tulasi das has written some verses that definitely show mayavadism and prove he is not a pure devotee.
If you cannot do this then you will have to admit you have committed a grave mistake by criticizing a pure devotee of Lord Ramachandra.
Hare Krishna! My humble obeisances! All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
Because of that we read Srimad Bhagavatam with the commentaries of Srila Prabhupada, don't we Prabhu?!
Your servant,
what is wrong if he says in ramayana that the almighty being infinite and omnipresent shows to his devotees the saakar roop depending upon the extent of devotion of their heart and soul towards the lord.
Perhaps mayawadi is one who says that lord's body is too like a normal human being and one who makes fun of lord's coming in saakar roop but tulsidas never intended this.