I am new to this, is Krishna God like the God the Christians and Jews worship? Is Krishna just another word for God?
Thanks
David
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I am new to this, is Krishna God like the God the Christians and Jews worship? Is Krishna just another word for God?
Thanks
David
You need to be a member of ISKCON Desire Tree | IDT to add comments!
Replies
Hare Krsna
Saguna form is the nirguna form
This is flase. It is mayavada philosophy. Basically your mayavada philosophy says Saguna is nirguna and Nirguna is nirguna. Such meaningless concepts, simply trying to impose mayavadi conceptions on Krsna's clear words and trying tomislead others.
Srila prabhupada has clearly explained to his followers what are the saguna and nirguna features of Supreme personality of Godhead Krsna. He has also taught us to reject mayvada philosophy which says saguna is nirguna. All your mayavada word jugglery is useless in front of the correct understanding given by Srila prabhupada.
Param Vijayate Sri Krsna Sankirtanam
@ Kamlesh,
When Krishna says , i'm the cause of all causes, or the controller of everything, HE was referring to his formless Brahman feature. Only the less intelligent souls cannot grasp his incomprehensible Brahman aspect which is unborn, eternal, transcendental. The wise ones know his ORIGINAL Brahman aspect ;)
My statements are based on scriptures.
Below is a quote from Upanishad that describes his Supreme avyakta Brahman feature.
"He is without hands and feet, (and yet) moves and grasps; He sees, (though) without eyes; He hears (though) without ears. He knows whatever is to be known, and of Him there is no knower. They speak of Him as the first, the Supreme Person (Purusham mahantam). "
(Svetasvatara Upanishad 3.19)
Hare Krsna
When Krishna says , i'm the cause of all causes, or the controller of everything, HE was referring to his formless Brahman feature.
This is false
When Krsna says I'm cause of all causes it means the Supreme personality of Godhead Krsna is the cause of all causes.
If he was referring to his brahman feature he would have said that brahman is cause of all causes.
There is no evidence to say that Brahman feature is origin of Personality of godhead Krsna. On the other hand The supreme personality of godhead Krsna clearly says that He is the basis of brahman and thus brahman feature rests as subordinate to the personal feature
brahmaṇo hi pratiṣṭhāham
amṛtasyāvyayasya ca
śāśvatasya ca dharmasya
sukhasyaikāntikasya ca
And I am the basis of the impersonal Brahman, which is immortal, imperishable and eternal and is the constitutional position of ultimate happiness. (BG 14.27)
Describing a formless feature of Brahman from Upanishad doesnt mean Brahman feature the origin of personality of Godhead.
Considering Brahman feature to be origin of Krsna is mayavada philosophy which is incorrect. Krsna is the supreme personality of Godhead. He is the origin of Brahman
Param Vijayate Sri Krsna Sankirtanam
that cause so much internal conflects. A perfect religus science with immediate evolutionary /perceivable results with boundless potentials. Krishna & Hi's names are identically petfect hence one experiences The Greatest of the Gods directly, when this Mantra is used for chanting.
So chanting Hare Krishna and Rama is the way to perceive for one's self Krishna's eternal Sovern constitutional position! Seeing is believing, please Chant properly the holy name of Ha-ray & your chanting will become limitedlessly* rewording!
This has been my experience!
Krishna represented God in the Highest form. And not just another superior being. Quite litterly "The Head God, The greatest personality of all, with the real-time ability to diminstrate the most perfect expreshion/through the diminstration of Hi's Sovern authority, abilities & understanding.
There are' other Gods, but Krishna has pruven Himself by Hi's legacy of teaching the practical/funtional
understanding of spiritual- *(rits)/ performance of religus (Darma)/ or-responsibilities/(eternal duty.
Krishna has proven not only Hi's (most sincear) intintions by such unconditional gennerosity, but also Hi's superior* ability to speak Hi's messages clearly explicitly.
In deed when He speaks of Himself as God
(in the 1st. person)
He means it, and rightly so. Krishna is The Head-God, the Greatest God,
the Greatest binnafactor
of everyone.
Yes Krishna is GOD in person!
Who has come into the physical & subtal realms to emphasize the reasions the value, and the ways in which Hi's created beings, can bredge all the obstacles causing disbelief or a lack of camunacation between the humen being & the Super humens /Gods). For one with *Sincear aspirations to evolve spiritually, (there is no other path comparable to the Hare Krishna School of ISKCON.
NONE not one comes even remotely enen close! Does a candle compare to the sun's shine. No more than (any other God compare to Krishna, or another religus science compair to ISKCON. This has been my experience!
I never said Krishna is an ordinary human. He incarnated as a human (in flesh) and yet he's beyond flesh. That's what he meant to say in Gita verse 9.11 ... Fools think of Krishna as an ordinary man but can't understand HIS divinity or superior transcendental nature when HE's present on earth in flesh.
Like He said in the Gita , He is the cause of all causes, the supreme God.
Yes He is the one true God. But his human Krishna form , even though it's divine and of a transcendental nature (is not HIS actual, original form or state) . That's not how GOD actually looks like.
It's just an avatara or human incarnation. God chose that "body / vessel" to carry out leelas and to get rid of evil. The same goes for Kalki incarnation. In different ages he incarnates in different bodies. But his actual original form is none of these.
The actual / original state of God, has been mentioned in scriptures like Vedas, Upanishads and Vishnu Purana. This original form can be classified in two.
But hardly anywhere in the big scriptures (Vedas , Upanishads or Puranas) the name Krishna is mentioned as the original form of God , from which everything emanated. NO.
Only in Brahma Samhita (which doesn't fall in the league of Vedas or Upanishads) , the word Krishna is mentioned by the 4 headed demigod Bruhma-Prajapati who sang the glories of Krishna.
Prabhupada and the earlier devotees, took Krishna's words too literally when Krishna told Arjuna that he is the cause of all causes. Yes He's the cause of all causes. But Krishna was referring to his original superior state (the unmanifested, incomprehensible, eternal state of Brahman).
That's what Krishna meant in the Gita-
Although I (Supreme transcendental Brahman) am unborn, imperishable, unchangeable and God of all living entities I do incarnate (Sambhavami –cause to be born) by using my Maya/Internal energy.
===============
Below are some verses that says God is both formless and has human like form (anthropomorphic).
“He is bodyless (Here Body means the physical structure, including the bones, flesh, and organs which is made from element within universe. Brahman has unique transcendental formless spirit body which is infinite like space) & pure.” (Yajurveda 40:8)
Manu says in his Smriti: In the beginning, all this existence was one Undifferentiated Mass of Unmanifestedness, unknown, indefinable, unarguable and unknown in every way. From this Supreme Condition arose the Universe of name and form, through the medium of the Self-existent Creator, Swayambhu.
“Na tasya pratima asti”
“There is no likeness of Him.”
[Svetasvatara Upanishad 4:19/ Yajurveda 32:3]
The tenth book of the Rig-Veda regards the highest conception of God both as the Impersonal and the Personal ... The Nasadiya Sukta states that the Supreme Being is both the Unmanifest and the Manifest, Existence as well as Non-existence, the Supreme Indeterminable.
Yes, that is true because everything exists within Consciousness. Brahman is Universal Consciousness. The Universe is the creative divine play of God. The Universal Form is the perfect example of this because everything is found within it. God is both manifest and unmanifest. Ultimately, no one can know God but God because there isn't a second entity to objectify God. God is both the subject/object and that which is beyond. Only through God's grace does a devotee/yogi or jnani attain realization. All forms of knowledge, all methods of yoga, bhakti etc, all of these depend on God. When one is truly sincere in the path they have chosen, God through his infinite grace and mercy leads one to the truth as it is.
Hare Krsna
What is true is the existence of supreme brahman in formless state which is described by you. But what is false is - that formless brahman is the origin of Supreme personality of Brahman - Krsna.
Krsna is the origin of the formless brahman as stated in BG 14.27. The personality of godhead Krsna is the highest manifestation of Supreme brahman.
Ultimately, no one can know God but God because there isn't a second entity to objectify God
This is incomplete understanding.
There are innumerable entities. Living entities - that are simultaneously one and different but dependent on supreme personality godhead Krsna. This is the complete understanding given in BG by Krsna.
The concept of considering everything as only one is mayavada which is at best incomplete and incorrect.
Hare Krsna
Where did i say they were not dependant on the Lord? where in the universal form is there room or space for anything outside of Krishna? If u cannot stand outside of the Lord, where is there space to objectify? The different entities you speak of are found in the different parts of the Lord's form, they have residence in different areas of that form so you are incorrect in assuming that the universe is anything but the play of the energies of the Lord. The Lord and his energy are 1, not 2 different entities. Radha is the energy of the Lord, she is not different than Krishna, Krishna through the agency of his energy manifests this universe.
Hare Krsna
Where in the universal form is there room or space for anything outside of Krishna?
There is no space for anything outside of impersonal manifestation of Krsna.
If u cannot stand outside of the Lord, where is there space to objectify?
Why is it required to stand outside of the lord to render service to the lord ?
The personality of Lord is the object of service while the servant is situated within the impersonal manifestation of the same personality - Krsna.
This can be understood from the verse BG 9.4
mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ
jagad avyakta-mūrtinā
mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni
na cāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ
By Me, in My unmanifested form, this entire universe is pervaded. All beings are in Me, but I am not in them.
Here Krsna clearly says that by His unmanifested form, he is present everywhere. All the beings are in Him. Further he says that the personality of Krsna is not in them.
So there is a distinction of them which is different from the personality of Krsna (Krsna says aham referring to His personality) while they are situated in impersonal manifestation(avyakta murtinah)
That is the whole crux acintya-bheda-abheda philosophy which says that Krsna and His energies are simultaneously one and different from Krsna's personality in an inconceivable manner always.
This is opposed to the incorrect mayavada philosophy where in the mayavada consider that everything is one only and manifestations are temporary finally merging into formless state.
Radha is the energy of the Lord, she is not different than Krishna
This is incomplete. Radha is the supreme potency of Krsna. She is not separate from Krsna. At the same time she is also different from Krsna. She is pleasure potency of Krsna and Krsna reciprocates with her. So it is not one like in the formless manifestation of brahman effulgence. It is variegated but one in spirit.
There is evidence of this given in BG 15th Chap
There are two classes of beings, the fallible and the infallible. In the material world every living entity is fallible, and in the spiritual world every living entity is called infallible.(15.16)
uttamaḥ puruṣas tv anyaḥ
paramātmety udāhṛtaḥ
yo loka-trayam āviśya
bibharty avyaya īśvaraḥ
Besides these two, there is the greatest living personality, the Supreme Soul, the imperishable Lord Himself, who has entered the three worlds and is maintaining them.(15.17)
Here Krsna uses the word anayh which distinguishes the personality of godhead from the fallible and infallible classes of beings mentioned in previous verse. By this He distinguishes personality is the Paramatma - Supreme Personalty of godhead who reciprocates with the infallible living entities in the spiritual world.
Srila Prabhupada explains in purport of 15.16 "Oneness does not mean that they have no individuality, but that there is no disunity."
So when it is said lord and His energies are one , it is true but incomplete.
When it is said lord and His energies are not 2 different entities it is false.
When it is said lord and His energies are are different entities it is true but incomplete.
When it is said lord and His energies are one and different it is true and complete.
You are incorrect in assuming that the universe is anything but the play of the energies of the Lord.
Universe or cosmic manifestation is by the play of energies. But there is something that is driving the inter-play of energies - that is experience or service and reciprocation between living entities and Krsna.
Hare Krsna
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