Hare Krishna to all,I have a question. It is said that we can have personal relationship with Krishna (like son, friend, lover etc).If someone trying to become devotee of Krishna and renders devotional service to Krishna without considering him God (just by understanding Him his personal son, friend, lover etc) because when Krishna is considered the supreme Lord, these relationship are not possible. Is it acceptable. Is it equal to the devotional service done by considering him God.It is mandatory to consider him God if someone is trying to become the devotee of Krishna and renders devotional service to Krishna. Only this knowledge is not sufficient that I am not this matter but a spirit soul. My only relation is with Krishna not with this material world.I am only His and Only He is mine (whatever relation one considers with Him, accordingly like friend etc).Is it necessary to know about His opulence as Supreme Personality of Godhead.Is it not all right to have a personal relationship with to render service unto Him according to that relationship.Please explain with some quotations .....
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May the Supersoul Paramatma of everyone be with you always. He is the localize expansion of Krishna. So, if you are looking for Krishna he is the tick tock on your wrist watches. He is the lub-dub sound you hear from your heart. He is located in the SA node emitting regular electric pulsation targeting the AV node, the location of the Atma Soul. The latter causes the Atrio-Ventricular muscles of the heart to contract & relax to open the AV valves. The result is the pumping of the heart of blood to & from the body`s circulatory system. Take away the Paramatma, the localized expansion of Krishna from this equation. & what you will have is a dead body.
Love for God is divine nectar which doesnt depend on knowledge about Him, what to talk about other things .
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SB 11.12.1-2 — The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: My dear Uddhava, by associating with My pure devotees one can destroy one’s attachment for all objects of material sense gratification. Such purifying association brings Me under the control of My devotee. One may perform the aṣṭāṅga-yoga system, engage in philosophical analysis of the elements of material nature, practice nonviolence and other ordinary principles of piety, chant the Vedas, perform penances, take to the renounced order of life, execute sacrificial performances and dig wells, plant trees and perform other public welfare activities, give in charity, carry out severe vows, worship the demigods, chant confidential mantras, visit holy places or accept major and minor disciplinary injunctions, but even by performing such activities one does not bring Me under his control.
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SB 11.12.3-6 — In every yuga many living entities entangled in the modes of passion and ignorance gained the association of My devotees. Thus, such living entities as the Daityas, Rākṣasas, birds, beasts, Gandharvas, Apsarās, Nāgas, Siddhas, Cāraṇas, Guhyakas and Vidyādharas, as well as such lower-class human beings as the vaiśyas, śūdras, women and others, were able to achieve My supreme abode. Vṛtrāsura, Prahlāda Mahārāja and others like them also achieved My abode by association with My devotees, as did personalities such as Vṛṣaparvā, Bali Mahārāja, Bāṇāsura, Maya, Vibhīṣaṇa, Sugrīva, Hanumān, Jāmbavān, Gajendra, Jaṭāyu, Tulādhāra, Dharma-vyādha, Kubjā, the gopīs in Vṛndāvana and the wives of the brāhmaṇas who were performing sacrifice.
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SB 11.12.7 — The persons I have mentioned did not undergo serious studies of the Vedic literature, nor did they worship great saintly persons, nor did they execute severe vows or austerities. Simply by association with Me and My devotees, they achieved Me.
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SB 11.12.8 — The inhabitants of Vṛndāvana, including the gopīs, cows, unmoving creatures such as the twin arjuna trees, animals, living entities with stunted consciousness such as bushes and thickets, and snakes such as Kāliya, all achieved the perfection of life by unalloyed love for Me and thus very easily achieved Me.
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SB 11.12.9 — Even though one engages with great endeavor in the mystic yoga system, philosophical speculation, charity, vows, penances, ritualistic sacrifices, teaching of Vedic mantras to others, personal study of the Vedas, or the renounced order of life, still one cannot achieve Me.
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SB 11.12.10 — The residents of Vṛndāvana, headed by the gopīs, were always completely attached to Me with deepest love. Therefore, when My uncle Akrūra brought My brother Balarāma and Me to the city of Mathurā, the residents of Vṛndāvana suffered extreme mental distress because of separation from Me and could not find any other source of happiness.
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SB 11.12.11 — Dear Uddhava, all of those nights that the gopīs spent with Me, their most dearly beloved, in the land of Vṛndāvana seemed to them to pass in less than a moment. Bereft of My association, however, the gopīs felt that those same nights dragged on forever, as if each night were equal to a day of Brahmā.
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SB 11.12.12 — My dear Uddhava, just as great sages in yoga trance merge into self-realization, like rivers merging into the ocean, and are thus not aware of material names and forms, similarly, the gopīs of Vṛndāvana were so completely attached to Me within their minds that they could not think of their own bodies, or of this world, or of their future lives. Their entire consciousness was simply bound up in Me.
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SB 11.12.13 — All those hundreds of thousands of gopīs, understanding Me to be their most charming lover and ardently desiring Me in that way, were unaware of My actual position. Yet by intimately associating with Me, the gopīs attained Me, the Supreme Absolute Truth.
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SB 11.12.14-15 — Therefore, My dear Uddhava, abandon the Vedic mantras as well as the procedures of supplementary Vedic literatures and their positive and negative injunctions. Disregard that which has been heard and that which is to be heard. Simply take shelter of Me alone, for I am the Supreme Personality of Godhead, situated within the heart of all conditioned souls. Take shelter of Me wholeheartedly, and by My grace be free from fear in all circumstances.*****
I do not know how you came up with such question, " Is it alright to render Bhakti to Krishna without considering Him the Supreme Lord? " It is like baking bread and eating it half-baked. It could be the other way. One considers Krishna the supreme Lord but is practicing Kriya yoga.
The highest devotees do this - It is called spontaneous devotional service.
Is it acceptable ?
Yes, but only if it is pure. It is only possible if we have full attachment only to Krsna.
Krsna says " Just fix your mind upon Me, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and engage all your intelligence in Me. Thus you will live in Me always, without a doubt."(BG 12.8)
This is a very advanced stage of devotion. I cannot have full attachment to Krsna if I am attached to satisfy cravings of tongue, hunger, entertainment or even knowledge what to speak of addiction to sex.
Is it mandatory to consider him God if someone is trying to become the devotee of Krishna and renders devotional service to Krishna.
YES
Since I am not able to fully absorb in Krsna then Krsna gives us a way to fully absorb in him - "if you cannot fix your mind upon Me without deviation, then follow the regulative principles of bhakti-yoga. In this way develop a desire to attain Me."(BG 12.9)
Bhakti-yoga is the purification of the senses. At the present moment in material existence the senses are always impure, being engaged in sense gratification. But by the practice of bhakti-yoga these senses can become purified, and in the purified state they come directly in contact with the Supreme Lord.(BG 12.9)
Is it necessary to know about His opulence as Supreme Personality of Godhead.Is it not all right to have a personal relationship with to render service unto Him according to that relationship.
It is not necessary to know about ALL of Krsna's opulence, it is not even possible. What is necessary is that we develop the correct realization of our constitutional position. Our constitutional position is that we are servant of Krsna. Krsna is a person who is our master. Without having this realization we cannot have any relationship with Krsna. All the pure devotees irrespective of whether they know Krsna as God or not they know that they are meant to serve Krsna.
So knowing about Krsna's greatness helps us in understanding our position, which is essential for devotional service.
If we are servant of our master then whatever Krsna desires, we should be ready to do, irrespective of our needs, convenience or comfort. Please note that we cannot please or serve Krsna in any way we want. We need to please Krsna in what way he wants. In our conditional state we don't even know what we want, how can we know what Krsna wants ? And how can we fulfill what Krsna wants.
Devotional service is not just mental or imaginary, I keep some dolls and play with them assuming they are my friend and now I have emotional relationship.
No it is serious business involving sacrifices, sense control etc.
Replies
Hare Krishna,
May the Supersoul Paramatma of everyone be with you always. He is the localize expansion of Krishna. So, if you are looking for Krishna he is the tick tock on your wrist watches. He is the lub-dub sound you hear from your heart. He is located in the SA node emitting regular electric pulsation targeting the AV node, the location of the Atma Soul. The latter causes the Atrio-Ventricular muscles of the heart to contract & relax to open the AV valves. The result is the pumping of the heart of blood to & from the body`s circulatory system. Take away the Paramatma, the localized expansion of Krishna from this equation. & what you will have is a dead body.
Om namo bhagavate vasudevaya
krsnaraja melvin
Thanks to all of you....
Love for God is divine nectar which doesnt depend on knowledge about Him, what to talk about other things .
.
.
I do not know how you came up with such question, " Is it alright to render Bhakti to Krishna without considering Him the Supreme Lord? " It is like baking bread and eating it half-baked. It could be the other way. One considers Krishna the supreme Lord but is practicing Kriya yoga.
Om namo bhagavate vasudevaya
krsnaraja melvin
Hare Krsna
The highest devotees do this - It is called spontaneous devotional service.
Is it acceptable ?
Yes, but only if it is pure. It is only possible if we have full attachment only to Krsna.
Krsna says " Just fix your mind upon Me, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and engage all your intelligence in Me. Thus you will live in Me always, without a doubt."(BG 12.8)
This is a very advanced stage of devotion. I cannot have full attachment to Krsna if I am attached to satisfy cravings of tongue, hunger, entertainment or even knowledge what to speak of addiction to sex.
Is it mandatory to consider him God if someone is trying to become the devotee of Krishna and renders devotional service to Krishna.
YES
Since I am not able to fully absorb in Krsna then Krsna gives us a way to fully absorb in him - "if you cannot fix your mind upon Me without deviation, then follow the regulative principles of bhakti-yoga. In this way develop a desire to attain Me."(BG 12.9)
Bhakti-yoga is the purification of the senses. At the present moment in material existence the senses are always impure, being engaged in sense gratification. But by the practice of bhakti-yoga these senses can become purified, and in the purified state they come directly in contact with the Supreme Lord.(BG 12.9)
Is it necessary to know about His opulence as Supreme Personality of Godhead.Is it not all right to have a personal relationship with to render service unto Him according to that relationship.
It is not necessary to know about ALL of Krsna's opulence, it is not even possible. What is necessary is that we develop the correct realization of our constitutional position. Our constitutional position is that we are servant of Krsna. Krsna is a person who is our master. Without having this realization we cannot have any relationship with Krsna. All the pure devotees irrespective of whether they know Krsna as God or not they know that they are meant to serve Krsna.
So knowing about Krsna's greatness helps us in understanding our position, which is essential for devotional service.
jivera 'svarupa' haya—krsnera 'nitya-dasa' (CC Madhya 20.108-109)
Full realization of this is a must.
If we are servant of our master then whatever Krsna desires, we should be ready to do, irrespective of our needs, convenience or comfort. Please note that we cannot please or serve Krsna in any way we want. We need to please Krsna in what way he wants. In our conditional state we don't even know what we want, how can we know what Krsna wants ? And how can we fulfill what Krsna wants.
Devotional service is not just mental or imaginary, I keep some dolls and play with them assuming they are my friend and now I have emotional relationship.
No it is serious business involving sacrifices, sense control etc.
Hare Krsna