Hare Krishna, Dandawat, AGTSP
I have a doubt regarding intiation. I was watching Abhaya Charan video last week. I saw that Prabhupada was initiated in sanyasa by his God brother on behalf of his Spiritual master Srila Bhakti siddhanta Saraswati Maharaj.
As I understand, one should accept another Spiritual master (can be God brother) if ones Spiritual master leaves his body. All the directions and Diksha has to be from the new spiritual master.
Can anyone help me clarify my doubt?
Replies
Hare Krishna Prabhu, please accept my humble obeisances! All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
For example, Srila Prabhupada took sannyasa from his God brother but remained as disciple of Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur. So it is possible.
Your servant,
The physical demise of the spiritual master
When the spiritual master leaves his body, the disciple should cry:
Being now alone and a widow in that forest, the daughter of Vidarbha began to lament, incessantly shedding tears, which soaked her breasts, and crying very loudly.
PURPORT: Figuratively the Queen is supposed to be the disciple of the King; thus when the mortal body of the spiritual master expires, his disciples should cry exactly as the Queen cries when the King leaves his body.
Çrémad-Bhägavatam 4.28.47
The disciple becomes bereaved when the spiritual master passes away:
That most obedient wife thus fell down at the feet of her dead husband and began to cry pitifully in that solitary forest. Thus the tears rolled down from her eyes.
PURPORT: Just as a devoted wife becomes afflicted at the passing away of her husband, when a spiritual master passes away, the disciple becomes similarly bereaved.
Çrémad-Bhägavatam 4.28.49
When the spiritual master departs, the devotee, if he is pure in heart, is immediately guided by the Supersoul:
One who is sincere and pure gets an opportunity to consult with the Supreme Personality of Godhead in His Paramätmä feature sitting within everyone’s heart. The Paramätmä is always the caitya-guru, the spiritual master within, and He comes before one externally as the instructor and initiator spiritual master. The Lord can reside within the heart, and He can also come out before a person and give him instructions. Thus the spiritual master is not different from the Supersoul sitting within the heart. An uncontaminated soul or living entity can get a chance to meet the Paramätmä face to face. Just as one gets a chance to consult with the Paramätmä within his heart, he also gets a chance to see Him actually situated before him. Then one can take instructions from the Supersoul directly. This is the duty of the pure devotee: to see the bona fide spiritual master and consult with the Supersoul within provided the devotee is purified in heart by following the directions of the spiritual master. A sincere devotee who follows the instructions of the spiritual master certainly gets direct instructions from his heart from the Supersoul. Thus a sincere devotee is always helped directly or indirectly by the spiritual master and the Supersoul. This is confirmed in Caitanya-caritämåta: guru-kåñëa-prasäde päya bhakti-latä-béja [Cc Mad 19.151]. If the devotee serves his spiritual master sincerely, Kåñëa automatically becomes pleased. Yasya prasädäd bhagavat-prasädaù. By satisfying the spiritual master, one automatically satisfies Kåñëa. Thus the devotee becomes enriched by both the spiritual master and Kåñëa.
Çrémad-Bhägavatam 4.28.52
After his disappearance, the spiritual master’s body is never burnt to ashes:
The spiritual master, or äcärya, is always situated in the spiritual status of life. Birth, death, old age and disease do not affect him. According to the Hari-bhakti-viläsa, therefore, after the disappearance of an äcärya, his body is never burnt to ashes, for it is a spiritual body. The spiritual body is always unaffected by material conditions.
Çrémad-Bhägavatam 10.4.20
The perfect disciples try to relieve the disorder which may follow the äcärya’s disappearance by sincerely following his instructions:
Whenever an äcärya comes, following the superior orders of the Supreme Personality of Godhead or His representative, he establishes the principles of religion.... Unfortunately, when the äcärya disappears, rogues and nondevotees take advantage and immediately begin to introduce unauthorized principles in the name of so-called svämés, yogés, philanthropists, welfare workers and so on.... The äcärya, the authorized representative of the Supreme Lord, establishes these principles, but when he disappears, things once again become disordered. The perfect disciples of the äcärya try to relieve the situation by sincerely following the instructions of the spiritual master.
Çrémad-Bhägavatam 4.28.48
Hare Krishna
Srila Prabhupad took Sannyasa initiation from his god brother.
His spiritual master is Srila Bhakt Siddhanta Saraswati thakur.
One MUST NOT accept another Spiritual master if one's spiritual master body leaves this material world.
The relationship between disciple and spiritual master is not material that it will end with the end of material body. The relationship is spiritual and it is with the soul. That is how we are connected to krishna and spiritual master, the soul has the eternal relationship with Krishna and spiritual master.
If one's spiritual master leaves material world, then the disciple should depend on the Vani or instructions of the spiritual master and fulfill it. That is exactly what Srila prabhupad demonstrated by his life.
In extremely special cases one is required to change one's sprititual master. Unauthorized deviation from practice of strict devotional service or devotional principles on the part of spiritual master is an example where one is required to change spiritual master.
YS Bharat
hare krishna..... a guru is supposed to be a representative of Krishna.... He is not an ordinary soul. He is a paramatma..a self realized soul...How can such a guru deviate from spiritual life? Moreover, if he is directly instructed from his guru to become a guru, then where is the chance for him to fall down? is it that his guru were not able too see the future? Nowadays, accepting a new spiritual master is no longer extremely special....sad to say, it has become quite common..... I personally have seen many people wondering what to do with life as their gurus fall down from their positions.... Even if one accepts a new guru, what is the guarantee that he too wont fall down....? He is supposed to be a link between the disciple and Krishna....but when the link goes missing, what happens to the disciple? we all know that it is impossible to attain krishna without a guru...WHAT TO BE DONE? Many a time, when i raise this question, devotees try to just shut me up but we have to face the fact and we need a solution as well.....
my humble obeisances dear Mataji,
as we know in the history of human kind there was many such like accidental incidents: Vishvamitra Muni, Saubhari Rshi...they fall down but still they came to their consciousness and perfected their lives.
Ajamila is another example, Jagai and Madhai, Bilvamangala Thakur, how fallen was hunter Mrigari or Valmiki?
So such like fall downs happen even in with Demigods. As like Mercury is the son of Chandra and Brihaspati's wife :O so what to speak of ordinary human beings.
But it does not mean that one should not be strong and strict. we have to try our best.
Another thing is: is it ok to sit doing anything thinking that even though i may fall down?
King Bharata renounced his whole material life and went to the forest but fall down being attached to a deer but still he continued his spiritual service in deer body next life but was it ok for him if knowing he will fall down he there fore do not renounce his family life and be in the kingdom till death?
No. Spiritual advancement never goes in vain. In material education we may get PhD but in next life we have to start from the beginning. But if we attain Bhava stage but fall down that stage won't be lost. One will start from that stage on in next life after fulfilling his material desire.
So there is no lost in spiritual achievement.
...
now about accepting Guru:
It is like giving exam and entering to the University to get a degree. There are so many learned people but only few attend university and get degrees like MA, PhD. So why that?
Because that is the authoritative way. We get connected to a system and study then only get degree certificate.
In this way Diksha is needed.
In spiritual world we won't be able to see Krishna and Radha if we are not connected to one line of Guru Parampara. Only by the reference of a bona fide Guru one can be introduced to Radha Krishna no other way.
...
because of that before choosing a Guru one should study a person, and pray Krishna and by His mercy one will get a bona fide Guru. And at the same time become a worthy student.
Your servant
hare krishna...logically speaking, it is acceptable... but all those rishis and munis mentioned above...were they all initiating spiritual masters? kindly explain....
those days there was no contraceptives :( wife and husband used to unite for only having a child...BUT are we doing this?
So as a result of sinful activities of disciples initiating Guru gets reactions.
Can we say that we never felt lusty and did not do any sinful acts breaking 4 regulative principles? No, maybe rare people will say yes.
So do we have right to point our finger to other's mistake?
...
other thing is previous times women were not seen in the streets with naked body now what to speak of movies and other ads???
And fashion?
So when women respect man especially those who are in renounced order of life they cover their bodies, remain sober and decent, they do not go close and have some intimate talks with them.
So are we following these things now?
So it is our prostitution.
How sad :(
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It is true even renounced sannyasi should not become relaxed and stay far from the right association other wise there is chance of fall down.
But at last once one Devotee told to Srila Prabhupada about fall down of other Devotee but Srila Prabhupada told him that it is not your duty to discuss him, if he needs punishment Guru will do that but not other people.
So again conclusion is first we have to become sincere then we won't be cheated.
Your servant,