hari krishnaas per bhagvatgita caste is not matter only we have to surrender lord krishna.then for marrige why we see same caste.my opinion is that marrige should not depend on cast but depends on his or her karm and not janm. my question is can marry with in othercast? in this case both are krishna bhakt but caste is barrier. so plz suggest what will do in such case?
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chaturvarnyam maya sristam, guna karma vibhagasha.... not janma karma vibahagasha....you right mataji but lord never openly said to goahed and have marriges according to karma based caste system ....and i am not against people who does it its their life their world let them do what ever they want after all its lokshahi but i personally cannot advise such things within my circle and yes we are all shudras in kalyuga but only by karma not by birth lord clearly says the person borned in a brahman family or kshatriya family and if he possess the guna of shudra then he will be callled as shudra by his karma not by birth
On the destruction of a tribe the ancient virtue of the tribe and family is lost; with the loss of virtue, vice and impiety overwhelm the whole of a race. From the influence of impiety the females of a family grow vicious; and from women that are become vicious are born the spurious caste called Varna-Sankara. Corruption of caste is a gate of hell, both for these destroyers of a tribe and for those who survive; and their forefathers, being deprived of the ceremonies of cakes and water offered to their manes, sink into the infernal regions. By the crimes of the destroyers of a tribe and by those who cause confusion of caste, the family virtue and the virtue of a whole tribe are forever done away with; and we have read in sacred writ, O Krishna, that a sojourn in hell awaits those mortals whose generation hath lost its virtue. There is no question or thought for family, lineage, gotra etc., only fulfilment of lusty desires. This is the common manner that so-called human society has diminished to in the present time. Consequently there are so many social ills occurring from such a situation as predicted in Bhagavad Gita (1:40-41) : adharmaabhibhavaat krshna pradushyanti kula-striyah strishu dushshaasu varshneya jaayate varna-sankarah sankaro narakaayaiva kula-ghnaanaam kulasya ca patanti pitaro hy eshaam lupta-pindodaka-kriyaah "When irreligion is prominent in the family, O Krishna, the women of the family become polluted, and from the degradation of womanhood, O descendant of Vrishni, comes unwanted (inter-mixed) progeny." "An increase of unwanted (inter-mixed) population certainly causes hellish life for both the family and for those who destroy the family tradition. The ancestors of such corrupt families fall down, because the performances for offering them food and water after death through ritual (pinda or shraddha) are entirely stopped." dosair etaih kula-ghnaanam varna-sankara-karakaih utsaadyante jaati-dharmaah kula-dharmaash ca shashvataah "By the inappropriate deeds of those who destroy the family tradition and thus give rise to unwanted (intermixed) children, all kinds of community projects and family welfare activities are wasted/ruined/devastated."
sorry prabhu you may get other good answers from other devotees but i cannot change my opinion i cannot suggest anyone for intercaste marrige freely
The entire point is that you are going by birth to determine caste whereas we are going by karma. The lord says - chaturvarnyam maya sristam, guna karma vibhagasha.... not janma karma vibahagasha....
In Kaliyuga, all are born shudras, this is also mentioned in the scriptures and elucidated by sadhus. In today's world, a marraige has to survive - that is important. The marraige has to be inter caste or intra caste is secondary. Are you aware that same caste marraiges also fail and inter caste marraiges also succeed?
Man milna zaroori hai, caste nahi. Baat ko samajhne ki koshish kijiye. Not asking you to go ahead and marry someone who is not your caste by birth, simply asking you to be more open to others who do. It is NOT a crime in today's world - material or spiritual.
Srila Prabhupada has himself done marraiges in ISKCON of people from two different continents - what to speak of caste and I personally know some such couples in ISKCON whose marraige has not only survived, they are practically marraige counsellors and advice on grihasta ashram.
Religion or spirituality is something that opens ones horizons and makes one more accepting, it does not make one dogmatic. If that is what religion/ spiritualit is doing to you, then there is something wrong in what you are doing.
A wife is a life companion.
And Bhakti is a life companion.
If you say you are a devotee of Krishna and want to follow His request to Come to Him, then all things are obvious. That the best choice of a life companion, is one that brings you Krishna Consciousness. A Krishna Conscious wife is not a caste. If you are intelligent you will know this. Your first choice as a life companion is Krishna Consciousness. Therefore, this is your best wife. There are demon children born in every level of society. And demon parents as well, who persecute their child if they love Krishna. Your wish is to see more Krishna Conscious children. So if you are intelligent, your decision is based on this, and the best wishes of a Krishna centric life, and the best wishes of a mother and father is their son marry a Krishna Conscious wife. This is what matters, not caste. Do not think otherwise.
But if you are already married, and a wife is not a Krishna Conscious wife, and your say you are a devotee, then you will not leave your wife but do you seva to Krishna by showing her the way to Him. Even if it takes time, you will do this. Do not chose your companion based on caste, that is not the wise choice. No one knows what they are in the Kali Yuga. Everything is full of lies. But you do not need to live in lies. Live your life companion in Bhakti, not lies. A Krishna Conscious wife. Do not be Hiranyakashipu.
Your well wisher in devotion, Jai Sri Krsna
Sudesh deshmukh > Brian the Cowherd BoyMay 17, 2014 at 10:02pm
yes brain prabhu you are right but one should not be so greedy also to attain lebration i think you are a westrernizer and being westernizer it is easy to say so because there is no caste system in your country ..but it not easy in orthodox indian society and yes i have heard it thousad times that every body is borned shudra in this kalyuga but i cannot go against my parents and other elders i belong to such a community where intercaste marriage is strictly prohibitted and even i wont do it even though my parents allow me and also being krishna concious because i feel that it is not good to disrespect the parents and other elders and also i respect my community....its my first and last commitment that i dont suppor intercaste marriages... even i personally dont attend such marriages ...
Mohini Madhavi > Brian the Cowherd BoyMay 17, 2014 at 4:53pm
so intelligently You replied Prabhu,
Thank You so much!
I know one nice Devotee boy with brahmana qualities but born in mlechcha family in our country.
So he got married to a non beautiful girl, even non Devotee. But she was simple. Plus we matched her horoscope, it did not match properly. Even thought he married her. And he told me that he decided to marry her so that he won't be distracted much from Krishna Consciousness.
Later on she became a Devotee.
Plus they got their daughter in sacred Padmini Ekadashi. And son this year in Goura Purnima which was on 16th of March.
So in this way external caste etc maybe there. But intelligent person sees the qualities not birth, cloth...
hare krishna rameshwar prabhu thakurji namonamaha! thakuraniji namonamaha!
who told that it is not mentioned in bhagwat geeta the lord krishna himself is the example of follower of varnaashrama dharma created by himself lord krishna was ksahtriya his all 1600 wifes were also kshatranis daughter of kshatriya kings so now you only think that being creator of varnaashrama dharma and being supreme lord why dint he married in other caste .....why did he married within is own caste it is very clear from this that even though he was creator of the system he could not go outside the system he followed it so who we are to do so being his servent how can we disobey the orders of lord being a servent .....is it not insult of lord think on it lord krsna has given intelligence to every one your servent
“Hare Krsna Prji ! Dandvat Pranaam. thanks for maintaining such an wonderful, knowledgeable, doubt clearing page..you are really doing great service..Prabhuapada ji must be Happy with your services.
I want to know that why it is recommended(read it in article "qualities of chaste woman") that a woman of higher caste must not marry a boy from lower caste? and whats the meaning of 'caste' here? by birth? or by qualities? and rather Scriptures even says that a devotee of the lord is beyond all these so called castes. its also true at the same time that we are not perfect devotee yet but we are trying sincerely to please Guru and Krsna ji. ys priyanka.”
REPLY:
Well, Castes are needed in a society. But, not the caste system that is existing now. Lord Himself created a system of Varnashrama Dharma that classifieds the people in 4 classes based on their profession only. Not birth.
Actually, Brahmanas are to advice the kings and people according to sastrc instructions. Kshatriyas are to protect the country from enemies. Vaishyas are to supply food and other materials for the people to live. Sudras are to assist all the other three varnas by working and getting salary.
Thus, if there is no brahmana to guide in sastras, the kings & people will become rascals.
If there is no kshatriyas to protect, the country will become under the control of enemy nations and thieves.
If there is no vaishyas to produce grains, vegetables and milk, the world will die of starvation.
If there is no sudras, no other varnas can perform their duties as they need man power in all their activities.
Thus, Krishna wonderfully planned the system. In His system, all are equally important and every varna is the backbone of a society.
However, with the advent of kaliyuga, the original varna system disappeared and birth based caste system is existing now. This is not a right system as it leads to chaos in the society.
Because of this birth based caste system, there are many wrong people in brahmanas. For example, I took birth in a vedic brahmana family. My parents were very orthodox. One day, when I was 7 or 8, I was eating rice food by keeping the side dish roasted potato chips in my left hand. My father had advised that we should not use our left hand for eating. As I took chips through left hand, he took a strong stick and gave a strong blow on my left hand when I was eating. That pain lasted for 4-5 days. After that, I never use my left hand while taking food even to take side dish.
So, Though I am a brahmana person who came from such an orthoodox family and though I am chanting ‘Gayathri Manthra’ also every day as per our family traditions, I am not ACTUALLY a brahmana now. Because, instead of vedic profession, I am doing a business and earning now. So, I must be called as a vaishya, not a brahmana.
However, to maintain my brahmin status, I am thinking of selling my company when I reach the age of 55 in FAR FUTURE and then concentrate only in preaching throughout the world till I die.
So, such varnashrama system of classification is the real caste system and it is good for the society. Only because some brahmanas misused vedic instructions and this varnashrama dharma, Lord Krishna came as Buddha and opposed vedas. Though vedas are the guiding lights for the society, Lord Himself temporarily opposed it as a section of brahmanas misused it to suppress other communities.
Now, your another question: Yes. It is better to marry a person within the same caste because, the nature of both husband and wife MAY BE the same. If a brahmana girl marries a vaishya boy, she may find it difficult to cope with the boy’s family as the life styles will be different for both brahmanas and vaishyas.
For example, I am a brahmana. If I marry a vaishya girl, she may find my daily chanting of Gayathri manthra and Hare krishna Maha Manthra as peculiar. She may argue with me. So, if a brahmana boy marries a brahmana girl, she can understand the rituals followed by her husband and adjust with him.
So, if possible, try your best to marry within your caste. Failures will be less in same caste marriage. Only because the inter caste marriages are increasing, there are more and more divorce cases in courts. In Chennai alone, one third of inter caste marriages end in divorce. Two thirds are somehow managing.
If there is unavoidable situation, you may go for marriage with other castes if you know that the bride or groom is really an adjustable boy/ girl.
Your next question:
If the girl and boy are devotees, should the caste be sen in marriage?
My reply is: What do you mean by DEVOTEES? Just because he is coming to temple, or wearing religious symbols on body or wearing religious dress or speaking of God? That alone is not the requirement to be a devotee! There are other important factors also.
Symbols and dress ALONE are not criteria for identifying a devotee. They should be mentally matured and should fear for sinning and they should be HUMBLE and he will never attack or abuse or accuse any other person even though he is attacked.
I have seen 4 initiated devotees physically attacking each other for the post. I have seen two initiated devotees wandering in love with a girl. I have also seen an initiated devotee speaking ugly words. I have seen some initiated devotees who always tortured their wives/ husbands.
As you are aware, now a days, the initiations are given even based on appearance only in some cases. If a person is wearing devotee symbols, devotee dress, he is considered as surrendered or atleast a good devotee in some cases. So, the diksha is given. But, later, some of them are unable to be perfect in saadhanas and discipline and hence fall down.
So, I am of firm view that initiations should be given based on the discipline and dedication alone, not only for dress. And , the dress code must be relaxed based on the profession of the devotee. If a devotee is maintaining all the regulative principles and chanting, but is unable to wear vaishnava dress and sikha, he must be encouraged to get diksha.
Our acharya has categorically said that only if a person has shaved his head, he must be offered diksha. For this reason, he refused diksha for some devotees. But, what happens now? I am seeing many devotees shave their face and cut 50% of their hairs only at the time of taking diksha. After that, they develop hair growth and wear jeans.
In reality, there are many very good orthodox devotees who are working in certain jobs, are unable to wear devotee dress, but are following all other rules. So, the system of insisting on sikha and "all time devotee dress" may be relaxed, but, they should just be advised to wear a simple dress that does not irritate others. That is enough. Because, everyone is working now and the career scenario is changing. They can not quit jobs for wearing devotee symbols. This is the reality. So, such relaxations are the needs of the hour. A devotee for initiation must be selected based on his character alone, not just blindly on dress code. Dress code is next to character.
So, how can we judge that a person is having all the qualities of a devotee? So, whether he is wearing a devotee dress or not, if he has all the INNER QUALITIES of a devotee, you can marry him without bothering about caste. If he is a devotee who has not mentally matured and do not behave as a devotee, how can you believe him and marry ?
So, eventhough you like to marry a devotee, you must enquire about him thoroughly from his surroundings and particularly friends. Being a devotee member in some spritual organisations is NOT a CLEAN CHIT or NOT a CONDUCT CERTIFICATE that we can marry him without fear.
We need not go anywhere else. Take our page. A person (Me) is spending half of his life time for selecting, preparing, posting and following hard written posts every day without any material benefits. There are 53000+ devotees in our page. How many of them take part in the SHARING or COMMENTING or LIKING our posts to encourage me? Only about a few hundreds do that. How others could remain without encouraging a devotee who is working tirelessly for them? What is the meaning of a devotee without compassion? How can we remain as a sincere devotee without encouraging others?
So, just being a devotee is not a clean chit for marrying him. Enquire thoroughly whoever he is whether he is really having most of the characters of a devotee! After that marry him. Thats all I can say.
So, my co nclusion is: CASTE IS NOT A BARRIER ONLY IF THE BRIDE/ GROOM IS VERY GENTLE , COMPASSIONATE, DECENT, SOFT SPEAKING AND NOT ABUSIVE!
As per Srila Prabhupad, Varna is dependent not upon janma but karma. If a shudra possess, qualities of a Brahmana, he should be accepted as a Brahmana and vice-versa.
In case, you were born a Shudra but possess qualities of a Kshatriya then you can marry a Kshatriya girl. Although the dharma should accept the marriage, I fear orthodox society would not accept it.
Replies
chaturvarnyam maya sristam, guna karma vibhagasha.... not janma karma vibahagasha....you right mataji but lord never openly said to goahed and have marriges according to karma based caste system ....and i am not against people who does it its their life their world let them do what ever they want after all its lokshahi but i personally cannot advise such things within my circle and yes we are all shudras in kalyuga but only by karma not by birth lord clearly says the person borned in a brahman family or kshatriya family and if he possess the guna of shudra then he will be callled as shudra by his karma not by birth
jay shri radhey chandravanshi avtar
On the destruction of a tribe the ancient virtue of the tribe and family is lost; with the loss of virtue, vice and impiety overwhelm the whole of a race. From the influence of impiety the females of a family grow vicious; and from women that are become vicious are born the spurious caste called Varna-Sankara. Corruption of caste is a gate of hell, both for these destroyers of a tribe and for those who survive; and their forefathers, being deprived of the ceremonies of cakes and water offered to their manes, sink into the infernal regions. By the crimes of the destroyers of a tribe and by those who cause confusion of caste, the family virtue and the virtue of a whole tribe are forever done away with; and we have read in sacred writ, O Krishna, that a sojourn in hell awaits those mortals whose generation hath lost its virtue. There is no question or thought for family, lineage, gotra etc., only fulfilment of lusty desires. This is the common manner that so-called human society has diminished to in the present time. Consequently there are so many social ills occurring from such a situation as predicted in Bhagavad Gita (1:40-41) : adharmaabhibhavaat krshna pradushyanti kula-striyah strishu dushshaasu varshneya jaayate varna-sankarah sankaro narakaayaiva kula-ghnaanaam kulasya ca patanti pitaro hy eshaam lupta-pindodaka-kriyaah "When irreligion is prominent in the family, O Krishna, the women of the family become polluted, and from the degradation of womanhood, O descendant of Vrishni, comes unwanted (inter-mixed) progeny." "An increase of unwanted (inter-mixed) population certainly causes hellish life for both the family and for those who destroy the family tradition. The ancestors of such corrupt families fall down, because the performances for offering them food and water after death through ritual (pinda or shraddha) are entirely stopped." dosair etaih kula-ghnaanam varna-sankara-karakaih utsaadyante jaati-dharmaah kula-dharmaash ca shashvataah "By the inappropriate deeds of those who destroy the family tradition and thus give rise to unwanted (intermixed) children, all kinds of community projects and family welfare activities are wasted/ruined/devastated."
sorry prabhu you may get other good answers from other devotees but i cannot change my opinion i cannot suggest anyone for intercaste marrige freely
jay shri radhey
thakurji namonamaha
thakuraniji namonamaha
Hare Krsna Sudesh Prabhu,
PAMHO.
The entire point is that you are going by birth to determine caste whereas we are going by karma. The lord says - chaturvarnyam maya sristam, guna karma vibhagasha.... not janma karma vibahagasha....
In Kaliyuga, all are born shudras, this is also mentioned in the scriptures and elucidated by sadhus. In today's world, a marraige has to survive - that is important. The marraige has to be inter caste or intra caste is secondary. Are you aware that same caste marraiges also fail and inter caste marraiges also succeed?
Man milna zaroori hai, caste nahi. Baat ko samajhne ki koshish kijiye. Not asking you to go ahead and marry someone who is not your caste by birth, simply asking you to be more open to others who do. It is NOT a crime in today's world - material or spiritual.
Srila Prabhupada has himself done marraiges in ISKCON of people from two different continents - what to speak of caste and I personally know some such couples in ISKCON whose marraige has not only survived, they are practically marraige counsellors and advice on grihasta ashram.
Religion or spirituality is something that opens ones horizons and makes one more accepting, it does not make one dogmatic. If that is what religion/ spiritualit is doing to you, then there is something wrong in what you are doing.
Haribol,
Your servant,
Rashmi
And Bhakti is a life companion.
If you say you are a devotee of Krishna and want to follow His request to Come to Him, then all things are obvious. That the best choice of a life companion, is one that brings you Krishna Consciousness. A Krishna Conscious wife is not a caste. If you are intelligent you will know this. Your first choice as a life companion is Krishna Consciousness. Therefore, this is your best wife. There are demon children born in every level of society. And demon parents as well, who persecute their child if they love Krishna. Your wish is to see more Krishna Conscious children. So if you are intelligent, your decision is based on this, and the best wishes of a Krishna centric life, and the best wishes of a mother and father is their son marry a Krishna Conscious wife. This is what matters, not caste. Do not think otherwise.
But if you are already married, and a wife is not a Krishna Conscious wife, and your say you are a devotee, then you will not leave your wife but do you seva to Krishna by showing her the way to Him. Even if it takes time, you will do this. Do not chose your companion based on caste, that is not the wise choice. No one knows what they are in the Kali Yuga. Everything is full of lies. But you do not need to live in lies. Live your life companion in Bhakti, not lies. A Krishna Conscious wife. Do not be Hiranyakashipu.
Your well wisher in devotion, Jai Sri Krsna
yes brain prabhu you are right but one should not be so greedy also to attain lebration i think you are a westrernizer and being westernizer it is easy to say so because there is no caste system in your country ..but it not easy in orthodox indian society and yes i have heard it thousad times that every body is borned shudra in this kalyuga but i cannot go against my parents and other elders i belong to such a community where intercaste marriage is strictly prohibitted and even i wont do it even though my parents allow me and also being krishna concious because i feel that it is not good to disrespect the parents and other elders and also i respect my community....its my first and last commitment that i dont suppor intercaste marriages... even i personally dont attend such marriages ...
so intelligently You replied Prabhu,
Thank You so much!
I know one nice Devotee boy with brahmana qualities but born in mlechcha family in our country.
So he got married to a non beautiful girl, even non Devotee. But she was simple. Plus we matched her horoscope, it did not match properly. Even thought he married her. And he told me that he decided to marry her so that he won't be distracted much from Krishna Consciousness.
Later on she became a Devotee.
Plus they got their daughter in sacred Padmini Ekadashi. And son this year in Goura Purnima which was on 16th of March.
So in this way external caste etc maybe there. But intelligent person sees the qualities not birth, cloth...
Your servant,
hare krishna rameshwar prabhu
thakurji namonamaha!
thakuraniji namonamaha!
who told that it is not mentioned in bhagwat geeta the lord krishna himself is the example of follower of varnaashrama dharma created by himself lord krishna was ksahtriya his all 1600 wifes were also kshatranis daughter of kshatriya kings so now you only think that being creator of varnaashrama dharma and being supreme lord why dint he married in other caste .....why did he married within is own caste it is very clear from this that even though he was creator of the system he could not go outside the system he followed it so who we are to do so being his servent how can we disobey the orders of lord being a servent .....is it not insult of lord think on it lord krsna has given intelligence to every one
your servent
COUNSELLING:
“Priyanka Raichand” asked like this:
“Hare Krsna Prji ! Dandvat Pranaam. thanks for maintaining such an wonderful, knowledgeable, doubt clearing page..you are really doing great service..Prabhuapada ji must be Happy with your services.
I want to know that why it is recommended(read it in article "qualities of chaste woman") that a woman of higher caste must not marry a boy from lower caste? and whats the meaning of 'caste' here? by birth? or by qualities? and rather Scriptures even says that a devotee of the lord is beyond all these so called castes. its also true at the same time that we are not perfect devotee yet but we are trying sincerely to please Guru and Krsna ji. ys priyanka.”
REPLY:
Well, Castes are needed in a society. But, not the caste system that is existing now. Lord Himself created a system of Varnashrama Dharma that classifieds the people in 4 classes based on their profession only. Not birth.
Actually, Brahmanas are to advice the kings and people according to sastrc instructions. Kshatriyas are to protect the country from enemies. Vaishyas are to supply food and other materials for the people to live. Sudras are to assist all the other three varnas by working and getting salary.
Thus, if there is no brahmana to guide in sastras, the kings & people will become rascals.
If there is no kshatriyas to protect, the country will become under the control of enemy nations and thieves.
If there is no vaishyas to produce grains, vegetables and milk, the world will die of starvation.
If there is no sudras, no other varnas can perform their duties as they need man power in all their activities.
Thus, Krishna wonderfully planned the system. In His system, all are equally important and every varna is the backbone of a society.
However, with the advent of kaliyuga, the original varna system disappeared and birth based caste system is existing now. This is not a right system as it leads to chaos in the society.
Because of this birth based caste system, there are many wrong people in brahmanas. For example, I took birth in a vedic brahmana family. My parents were very orthodox. One day, when I was 7 or 8, I was eating rice food by keeping the side dish roasted potato chips in my left hand. My father had advised that we should not use our left hand for eating. As I took chips through left hand, he took a strong stick and gave a strong blow on my left hand when I was eating. That pain lasted for 4-5 days. After that, I never use my left hand while taking food even to take side dish.
So, Though I am a brahmana person who came from such an orthoodox family and though I am chanting ‘Gayathri Manthra’ also every day as per our family traditions, I am not ACTUALLY a brahmana now. Because, instead of vedic profession, I am doing a business and earning now. So, I must be called as a vaishya, not a brahmana.
However, to maintain my brahmin status, I am thinking of selling my company when I reach the age of 55 in FAR FUTURE and then concentrate only in preaching throughout the world till I die.
So, such varnashrama system of classification is the real caste system and it is good for the society. Only because some brahmanas misused vedic instructions and this varnashrama dharma, Lord Krishna came as Buddha and opposed vedas. Though vedas are the guiding lights for the society, Lord Himself temporarily opposed it as a section of brahmanas misused it to suppress other communities.
Now, your another question: Yes. It is better to marry a person within the same caste because, the nature of both husband and wife MAY BE the same. If a brahmana girl marries a vaishya boy, she may find it difficult to cope with the boy’s family as the life styles will be different for both brahmanas and vaishyas.
For example, I am a brahmana. If I marry a vaishya girl, she may find my daily chanting of Gayathri manthra and Hare krishna Maha Manthra as peculiar. She may argue with me. So, if a brahmana boy marries a brahmana girl, she can understand the rituals followed by her husband and adjust with him.
So, if possible, try your best to marry within your caste. Failures will be less in same caste marriage. Only because the inter caste marriages are increasing, there are more and more divorce cases in courts. In Chennai alone, one third of inter caste marriages end in divorce. Two thirds are somehow managing.
If there is unavoidable situation, you may go for marriage with other castes if you know that the bride or groom is really an adjustable boy/ girl.
Your next question:
If the girl and boy are devotees, should the caste be sen in marriage?
My reply is: What do you mean by DEVOTEES? Just because he is coming to temple, or wearing religious symbols on body or wearing religious dress or speaking of God? That alone is not the requirement to be a devotee! There are other important factors also.
Symbols and dress ALONE are not criteria for identifying a devotee. They should be mentally matured and should fear for sinning and they should be HUMBLE and he will never attack or abuse or accuse any other person even though he is attacked.
I have seen 4 initiated devotees physically attacking each other for the post. I have seen two initiated devotees wandering in love with a girl. I have also seen an initiated devotee speaking ugly words. I have seen some initiated devotees who always tortured their wives/ husbands.
As you are aware, now a days, the initiations are given even based on appearance only in some cases. If a person is wearing devotee symbols, devotee dress, he is considered as surrendered or atleast a good devotee in some cases. So, the diksha is given. But, later, some of them are unable to be perfect in saadhanas and discipline and hence fall down.
So, I am of firm view that initiations should be given based on the discipline and dedication alone, not only for dress. And , the dress code must be relaxed based on the profession of the devotee. If a devotee is maintaining all the regulative principles and chanting, but is unable to wear vaishnava dress and sikha, he must be encouraged to get diksha.
Our acharya has categorically said that only if a person has shaved his head, he must be offered diksha. For this reason, he refused diksha for some devotees. But, what happens now? I am seeing many devotees shave their face and cut 50% of their hairs only at the time of taking diksha. After that, they develop hair growth and wear jeans.
In reality, there are many very good orthodox devotees who are working in certain jobs, are unable to wear devotee dress, but are following all other rules. So, the system of insisting on sikha and "all time devotee dress" may be relaxed, but, they should just be advised to wear a simple dress that does not irritate others. That is enough. Because, everyone is working now and the career scenario is changing. They can not quit jobs for wearing devotee symbols. This is the reality. So, such relaxations are the needs of the hour. A devotee for initiation must be selected based on his character alone, not just blindly on dress code. Dress code is next to character.
So, how can we judge that a person is having all the qualities of a devotee? So, whether he is wearing a devotee dress or not, if he has all the INNER QUALITIES of a devotee, you can marry him without bothering about caste. If he is a devotee who has not mentally matured and do not behave as a devotee, how can you believe him and marry ?
So, eventhough you like to marry a devotee, you must enquire about him thoroughly from his surroundings and particularly friends. Being a devotee member in some spritual organisations is NOT a CLEAN CHIT or NOT a CONDUCT CERTIFICATE that we can marry him without fear.
We need not go anywhere else. Take our page. A person (Me) is spending half of his life time for selecting, preparing, posting and following hard written posts every day without any material benefits. There are 53000+ devotees in our page. How many of them take part in the SHARING or COMMENTING or LIKING our posts to encourage me? Only about a few hundreds do that. How others could remain without encouraging a devotee who is working tirelessly for them? What is the meaning of a devotee without compassion? How can we remain as a sincere devotee without encouraging others?
So, just being a devotee is not a clean chit for marrying him. Enquire thoroughly whoever he is whether he is really having most of the characters of a devotee! After that marry him. Thats all I can say.
So, my co nclusion is: CASTE IS NOT A BARRIER ONLY IF THE BRIDE/ GROOM IS VERY GENTLE , COMPASSIONATE, DECENT, SOFT SPEAKING AND NOT ABUSIVE!
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As per Srila Prabhupad, Varna is dependent not upon janma but karma. If a shudra possess, qualities of a Brahmana, he should be accepted as a Brahmana and vice-versa.
In case, you were born a Shudra but possess qualities of a Kshatriya then you can marry a Kshatriya girl. Although the dharma should accept the marriage, I fear orthodox society would not accept it.
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