Hare Krishna to all Matajis, Prabhujis & Devotees
There are so many devotees on ISKCON DESIRE TREE who are very new and even old also on ISKCON DESIRE TREE, who actually are not aware of the Importance of Guru in Krishna Consciousness so kindly all Vaishnav and Dr. Devotees kindly put the light on the importance of Guru in Krishna Consciousness.
Hare Krishna
Your Humble Servant
Bhuwan Dutt Bawari
Replies
dear aakash,
everything depend on your wish and qualification.
if you qualified enough and you have a wish, the lord will arrange and sent you qualified guru,
but if you arent, then you will accept materialist one, based on your materialistic motivation.
anyway, when we talk about god, you can accept him or not,
but god is the guru of every living being in the universe.
Hare Krsna
Wonderful question Aakash pr.
Not surprisingly it has not been answered by the person to whom you have addressed
Many people quote many things but may or may not be blessed with courage to admit explicitly what they mean. Without admitting the conclusion they go round and round about scriptures and expect others to do the same.
Vaishnav Acaryas like Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati thakur, Srila Prabhupad etc are not like that. They give very crystal clear instructions and exemplify their lives by following the same.
Lord Krsna very clearly says in BG
tad viddhi praniipatena
paripraçnena sevayaa
upadeksyanti te jnanam
jnaninas tattva-darsinah BG 4.43
Translation : Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized souls can impart knowledge unto you because they have seen the truth.
Purport : The path of spiritual realization is undoubtedly difficult. The Lord is the original spiritual master, and a person in the disciplic succession can convey the message of the Lord as it is to his disciple.The Lord therefore advises us to approach a bona fide spiritual master in the line of disciplic succession from the Lord Himself. One has to approach a bona fide spiritual master to receive the knowledge. Such a spiritual master should be accepted in full surrender, and one should serve the spiritual master like a menial servant, without false prestige. Satisfaction of the self-realized spiritual master is the secret of advancement in spiritual life. Inquiries and submission constitute the proper combination for spiritual understanding. Unless there is submission and service, inquiries from the learned spiritual master will not be effective. One must be able to pass the test of the spiritual master, and when he sees the genuine desire of the disciple, he automatically blesses the disciple with genuine spiritual understanding. In this verse, both blind following and absurd inquiries are condemned. Not only should one hear submissively from the spiritual master, but one must also get a clear understanding from him, in submission and service and inquiries. A bonafide spiritual master is by nature very kind toward the disciple. Therefore when the student is submissive and is always ready to render service, the reciprocation of knowledge and inquiries becomes perfect.
This fundamentally establishes the importance of need of spiritual master in person for those who desire spiritual perfection. Anything which minimizes or reduces the need for spiritual master or service unto spiritual master is not to be accepted.
Great vaishnav acaryas have accepted spiritual master. Lord Chaitanya although the supreme lord Krsna himself also accepted spiritual master to whom he humbly rendered menial service. Srila Prabhupad also served his spiritual master by following his instructions and preaching KC all over the world.
YAS Bharat
Hari Bol!!!!!!!!!
Thanks Kartik & Dean Prabhuji!!!!!!!
Hare Krishna
Hare Krsna Prabhuji,
Actually thank YOU for starting this thread on this forum
HariBol!
You are absolutely correct in quoting SB 1.1.2 that "This beautiful Bhāgavatam, compiled by the great sage Vyāsadeva [in his maturity], is sufficient in itself for God realization", but this verse is not refuting the argument that one needs a guru. It simply means that one must also consider all the other verses in Bhagavatam before we make our stance on a subject, some of which also underline the importance of accepting a Guru. For instance,
SB 11.3.21
tasmad gurum prapadyeta
jijnasuh sreya uttamam
sabde pare ca nishnatam
brahmany upasamasrayam
Translation:
Therefore any person who seriously desires real happiness must seek a bona fide spiritual master and take shelter of him by initiation. The qualification of the bona fide guru is that he has realized the conclusions of the scriptures by deliberation and is able to convince others of these conclusions. Such great personalities, who have taken shelter of the Supreme Godhead, leaving aside all material considerations, should be understood to be bona fide spiritual masters.
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Since it is recommended in Srimad Bhagavatam itself that we must accept a guru, any claims or notions that guru is not necessary is like the half hen logic(accepting some portions but rejecting the others). Also before we reach any devotional stance on a subject matter we must take the three-fold opinion of guru, sadhu sastra. Simply quoting some verses sastra and forming an opinion based on that amounts to merely mental speculation.
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Also the quote of Haridas Thakur, is not a direct refutation of the need for accepting a spiritual master, once again if you want to quote the Namacarya then please read all of his teachings, especially Harinam Cintamani chapter 6 verse 7 and 8:
A soul residing in the world of Birth and Death must take shelter of a bona fide spiritual master
7. "Taking Shelter of the spiritual master, who is the captain of the ship, (2) and with the help of Lord Krsna, the soul crosses over the ocean of birth and death.
8. "The soul should humbly speak to a bona fide spiritual master, who is a peaceful devotee of Lord Krsna. In that way the soul is able to cross over the ocean of birth and death.
(this translation is from the pdf available on the IDT website)
I hope that you are now convinced of the need for accepting a Spiritual Master.
In the purport to the first verse you quoted(SB 8.24.48), Srila Prabhupada states that:
Even though we may not have the fortune to contact the Supreme Lord personally, the Lord’s representative is as good as the Lord Himself because such a representative does not say anything unless it is spoken by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore gives a definition of guru. Yāre dekha, tāre kaha ‘kṛṣṇa’-upadeśa: the bona fide guru is he who advises his disciples exactly in accordance with the principles spoken by Kṛṣṇa. The bona fide guru is he who has accepted Kṛṣṇa as guru. This is the guru-paramparā system. The original guru is Vyāsadeva because he is the speaker of Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, wherein everything spoken relates to Kṛṣṇa. Therefore guru-pūjā is known as Vyāsa-pūjā. In the final analysis, the original guru is Kṛṣṇa, His disciple is Nārada, whose disciple is Vyāsa, and in this way we gradually come in touch with the guru-paramparā. One cannot become a guru if he does not know what the Personality of Godhead Kṛṣṇa or His incarnation wants. The mission of the guru is the mission of the Supreme Personality of Godhead: to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness all over the world.
Caitanya Bhagavata Madhya Khanda 7.103 states that:
Text 103
"Every devotee who walks on the path of devotional service must have a spiritual master to guide him."
Also Bhagavad-gītā As It Is 4.34 states that:
tad viddhi pranipatena
pariprasnena sevaya
upadeksyanti te jnanam
jnaninas tattva-darsinah
TRANSLATION
Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized souls can impart knowledge unto you because they have seen the truth.
PURPORT
The path of spiritual realization is undoubtedly difficult. The Lord therefore advises us to approach a bona fide spiritual master in the line of disciplic succession from the Lord Himself. No one can be a bona fide spiritual master without following this principle of disciplic succession. The Lord is the original spiritual master, and a person in the disciplic succession can convey the message of the Lord as it is to his disciple. No one can be spiritually realized by manufacturing his own process, as is the fashion of the foolish pretenders. The Bhāgavatam (6.3.19) says, dharmaḿ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam: the path of religion is directly enunciated by the Lord. Therefore, mental speculation or dry arguments cannot help lead one to the right path. Nor by independent study of books of knowledge can one progress in spiritual life. One has to approach a bona fide spiritual master to receive the knowledge. Such a spiritual master should be accepted in full surrender, and one should serve the spiritual master like a menial servant, without false prestige. Satisfaction of the self-realized spiritual master is the secret of advancement in spiritual life. Inquiries and submission constitute the proper combination for spiritual understanding. Unless there is submission and service, inquiries from the learned spiritual master will not be effective. One must be able to pass the test of the spiritual master, and when he sees the genuine desire of the disciple, he automatically blesses the disciple with genuine spiritual understanding. In this verse, both blind following and absurd inquiries are condemned. Not only should one hear submissively from the spiritual master, but one must also get a clear understanding from him, in submission and service and inquiries. A bona fide spiritual master is by nature very kind toward the disciple. Therefore when the student is submissive and is always ready to render service, the reciprocation of knowledge and inquiries becomes perfect.
Also kindly read the blog on the importance of guru:
http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/profiles/blogs/remembering-srila-pr...
Also a senior Prabhupada's disciple, HG Sriman Sankarshan Das Adhikari Maharaj, wrote in his thought for the day for 9th Feb 2014 that:
If you don't have a guru, you are like a boat without a rudder. The Mundaka Upanisad confirms that having a guru is absolutely mandatory. You will not be able to cross the ocean of birth and death to attain the kingdom of immortality without a guru. Therefore don't cheat yourself out of the most valuable opportunity offered to you in this human form of life. Seek out a bona fide spiritual master and take shelter of him by initiation. In this way you can fully awaken your God consciousness or Krishna consciousness and thus regain your original, eternal identity in the pastimes of the Lord in His sublime, divine planet known as Krishnaloka.
And on 11th June 2014 that:
According to Krishna's statement in the Adi-Purana unless we are devoted to Krishna's devotee He does not accept that we have any devotion to Him. Therefore the first step on the path of bhakti is take shelter of the bona fide spiritual master by initiation. This is confirmed by Srila Rupa Goswami as follows:
ādau gurv-āśrayam sad-dharma-pṛcchā
sādhu-mārgānugamanam
"In the beginning one should accept the shelter of a bona fide spiritual master and inquire submissively about religious principles. He should then desire to follow in the footsteps of the great devotees of the Lord."--Bhakti-rasamrita-sindhu 1.1.74
So do yourself a favor. If you have not already done so. Become the devotee of Krishna's devotee so that Krishna will recognize you as His devotee.
Also Lord Brahma instructs Shrila Narada in the Skanda Purana, Kartika-Mahatmya:
te narah pasavo loke, kim tesam jivane phalam; yair na labdha harer diksa, narcito va janardanah.
"Unfortunate people do not accept Mantra Diksha from a bonafide Vaishnava guru in any of these four sampradayas and thus they remain unqualified to worship Lord Krishna. Such people are simply like animals since there is no higher purpose for their human form of life."
I hope this clears any doubt you may have about the absolute necessity of a Guru.
Hare Krsna Prahbu,
Please accept my humble obeisances,
In the Varaha Purana it is said:
siddhir bhavati va neti
samsayo 'cyuta-sevinam
nihsamsayo 'stu tad-bhakta-
paricarya-ratatmanam
"The servants of the infallible Supreme Personality of Godhead may or may not attain perfection. There is some doubt. But for the servants of the Lord's devotees there is no doubt."
Therefore if we want perfection without any doubt then we must find a pure devotee of the Lord and accept him as our Guru.
-HariBol!!
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