Hare Krishna dandavat pranaams,
The first question bothering me is,we have been taught by srila Prabhupada that we are parts and parcels of Krishna ,he has also said that we are fragmental portions of Krishna. Now does this mean that these fragmental portions at some point separated from him? Or is it that we were always individuals? Because if we were eternally individuals then how can we be called Krishna's parts and parcels or his fragmental portions?
Second thing,if we were eternally individuals then I can understand that we can never be one with him, but if we were separated,then what shloka does srila Prabhupada quote to show that we can't be joined again?
I understand that these questions are kind of mayavadi in nature, but I have been bothered by them and seek to uproot them before they sprout. I am not asking them with an offensive mentality but genuinely want to learn.
Please help me,
Hare Krishna
Replies
Hare Krsna
Now does this mean that these fragmental portions at some point separated from him?
No
Is it that we were always individuals?
Yes
Because if we were eternally individuals then how can we be called Krishna's parts and parcels or his fragmental portions?
It means living entity is same in quality as Krsna , that is Krsna is eternal, full of knowledge and full of bliss and living entity by constitutional nature is eternal full of knowledge and full of bliss.
The difference however is that Krsna is infinite and living entity is infinitesimal.
I can understand that we can never be one with him, but if we were separated,then what shloka does srila Prabhupada quote to show that we can't be joined again?
न चैव नभविष्यामः सर्वे वयमतः परम् ॥ १२ ॥
na tvaṁ neme janādhipāḥ
na caiva na bhaviṣyāmaḥ
sarve vayam ataḥ param
Thank you so much prabhuji, dandavat pranam,hare Krishna.
Hare Krishna Sarvesh Prabhu,
Jivas are marginal potency of Lord. Lord has got 3 energies. 1. external energy ( Mahamaya) 2. Internal energy( Yog maya) and 3.. Marginal potency or (Tattastha).
The constitutional position of Jiva is that the Jivas are eternal servants of the Lord and service to the Lord is their one and only true dharma, or purpose in life.
Due to being the marginal potency of the Lord the jivas, who are infinitesimal parts and parcels of the Lord, are prone to fall under the spell of Maya
n the Sri Chaitanya Charitamrita it has been said:
jīvera ‘svarūpa’ haya — kṛṣṇera ‘nitya-dāsa’
kṛṣṇera ‘taṭasthā-śakti’ ‘bhedābheda-prakāśa’
It is the living entity’s constitutional position to be an eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa because he is the marginal energy of Kṛṣṇa and a manifestation simultaneously one with and different from the Lord. Qualitatively Jivas pocess the qualities of Lord as they are LOrd's marginal energies only but they are quantitatively small.
The marginal potencies are araising as sparks from the brahman.
Bg. 15.7 The living entities in this conditioned world are My eternal fragmental parts. Due to conditioned life, they are struggling very hard with the six senses, which include the mind.
n this verse the identity of the living being is clearly given. The living entity is the fragmental part and parcel of the Supreme Lord – eternally. It is not that he assumes individuality in his conditional life and in his liberated state becomes one with the Supreme Lord. He is eternally fragmented. It is clearly said, sanātanaḥ. ( ETERNAL).
As fragmental parts and parcels of the Supreme Lord, the living entities also have fragmental portions of His qualities, of which independence is one. Every living entity, as an individual soul, has his personal individuality and a minute form of independence. By misuse of that independence one becomes a conditioned soul, and by proper use of independence he is always liberated. In either case, he is qualitatively eternal, as the Supreme Lord is. ( purport of BG 15.7).
It is clear, however, in this verse, that the conditioned soul is covered by the material body, with the mind and the senses, and when he is liberated this material covering perishes, but his spiritual body manifests itself in its individual capacity.
It is stated here that when a living entity gives up this material embodiment and enters into the spiritual world, he revives his spiritual body, and in his spiritual body he can see the Supreme Personality of Godhead face to face.
What is the doubt? it is so clearly explained.
Achintya abeda bedha tattva.
simultaneous oneness at the same time different. Jivas though pocess all the qualities of Lord as they are part of Lord ( Lord's own external energies) we jivas are. We have same qualities of Lord but we are different from God because we are quantitatively very very small sparks.
Just like fire and its sparks are both having same quality of burning things and producing heat. But heat and light compared to the main fire is v very small in sparks.
so we ( jivas).are simultaneously one and at the same time different.
There is no doubt here its so clearly explained in BG 15.7 purport. read it nicely and if you have still doubt ask it.
Hare Krishna
Thank you mataji for the explanation,I am not very well verse in Gita so I get stuck with questions. Now I am clear with this concept. Thank you for the answer, dandavat pranam,hare Krishna
One of the examples Prabhupada used often was a drop of water compared to the ocean. A drop of water is qualitatively the same as the ocean, but quantitively not the same. And if a drop of water goes into the ocean, it is still an individual drop of water.
"Now the jīvas, or the living entities, have been accepted by the Lord, as we will note in the later chapters, as His parts and parcels. A particle of gold is also gold, a drop of water from the ocean is also salty, and similarly we the living entities, being part and parcel of the supreme controller, īśvara, or Bhagavān, Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, have all the qualities of the Supreme Lord in minute quantity because we are minute īśvaras, subordinate īśvaras. We are trying to control nature, as presently we are trying to control space or planets, and this tendency to control is there because it is in Kṛṣṇa. But although we have a tendency to lord it over material nature, we should know that we are not the supreme controller. This is explained in Bhagavad-gītā."
Source - Bhagavad Gita: Introduction
Hare Krishna Prabhu Ji!
I had a Question.
I didn't understand that when the drop goes into the ocean how can it remain as an individual drop?
Can you explain this Confused meek?
You can see it anytime there is a wave, or just remove some water yourself. The ocean is just made of droplets.
Thank you prabhuji,hare Krishna, dandavat pranam