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  • adam steinberg March 9, 2015 at 3:16pm

    then who created the creator of the creator. and who created the creator of the creator of the creator? :)

    • 3f21ivo10p1mx > adam steinberg March 9, 2015 at 7:59pm

      god didnt created himself, he always existed .

      there is no beginning or end when god is a subject.

      SB 12.11.50 — For the protection of all the worlds, the Supreme Personality of Godhead Hari, who is unborn and without beginning or end, thus expands Himself during each day of Brahmā into these specific categories of His personal representations.
  • Sevak
    Bharat March 9, 2015 at 2:33pm

    Hare Krsna 

    This aspect is addressed by Lord Brahma(secondary creator) who is the foremost(first) of Acaryas in the Brahma Madhwa Gaudiya Guru Shisya vaishnava Sampradaya. Lord Brahma has compiled Brahma Samhita. The 1st Verse of 5th Chapter of Brahma Samhita is as below

    Isvaraha paramah Krsnah
    sac-cid-aananda-vigrahah
    anaadir adir govindah
    sarva-kaarana-kaaranam

    Translation : Krsna who is known as Govinda is the Supreme Godhead. He has an eternal blissful spiritual body. He is the origin of all. He has no other origin and He is the prime cause of all causes.

    In this verse Lord Brahma gives what can be called the definition of Supreme  - The origin of all which has no other origin. Lord Brahma himself is the first created living being and he is secondary creator of the material universe. He creates all life forms of the universe. 

    By the definition of Supreme - the supreme entity has no creator. If an entity has some other origin, then that entity is not the supreme. Like Brahma is sometimes addressed as creator, but brahma himself has been created by some other entity, So brahma cannot be the Supreme creator, hence he is a creator but a secondary creator. Here Lord Brahma says Krsna or Govinda is that supreme personality who has no other origin. 

    Directly coming to the question - Who created the creator ?

    Ans - Nobody outside of the creator

    How is it possible ? Yes it is possible 

    We have to understand that we live in the universe which is in domain of time(kala) and is created and destroyed, in which everything is created and destroyed, We see cause and effect everywhere, Everything in the material realm can be traced to have some immediate cause. Hence we tend to think that everything must have a cause. 

    But that is not the case. In the supreme spiritual realm there is no time, no creation or destruction and hence no other origin. It simply exists and it is outside realm of creation/ destruction/ time etc

    • Sevak
      Bharat > Bharat March 9, 2015 at 2:34pm

      How can we understand this ?

      Consider this analogy. Suppose an author who has written a fictional novel. He creates fictional characters within the novel. The characters in the novel no matter how lively and real they are portrayed as, can never understand how they came to be in the novel. Because their creation has happened in the realm of the fictional novel and the creator of the novel the author is outside the realm of the novel. But nonetheless the the characters are there in novel, novel is there and the author is there. 

      Consider another analogy - There is a programmer, who writes codes, in the codes there are objects that have definite functions, these objects are networked, they interact with other objects over the network and perform multifarious functions, they interact with physical objects of the real world with help of sensors or other switches deployed over electronics. No matter how sophisticated the functions of the programs are or how universal their applicability is, or how fast they work, they cannot function outside of their limited domain. That domain is limited by their creator. They cannot understand their creator - programmer who nonetheless exists and did create them.

      In these two analogies stated, the fictional characters or the coded objects cannot even question their creator what to speak of understanding him, but they are nonetheless created by something which is outside of their realm and is of a higher nature. 

      Similarly we are living beings who are capable of questioning the origin of our creation, but by our own efforts we will not be able to fully comprehend the supreme being because we are limited and Supreme lord is unlimited. Having said that there is nothing wrong in questioning and it is highly encouraged. And the shastras give the answer which is appropriate to our level of understanding. 

      • Sevak
        Bharat > Bharat March 9, 2015 at 2:52pm

        How can god be understood ?

        God can be understood when god wants to reveal Himself to us, to the extent he wants to reveal himself to us, with the features he wants to reveal to us, through the means which he wants to reveal to us.

        There are innumerable examples of this happening.

        Lord Krsna revealed his gigantic universal form to Arjuna in Bhagavad Gita on the battle field of Kurukshetra. 

        Little boy prahlad could perceive Supreme lord everywhere.

        In order to enable ordinary human beings to perceive the Supreme God, Lord Chaitanya has appeared and he has given Krsna in form of  Holy name of Krsna -

        Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare

        Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

        Simply by reciting this holy mantra anyone can can be empowered to personally connect to the same supreme personality  who has no origin, who is origin of all, who is beyond all material realm.

        Hare Krsna

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